DCS: F-5E!

[Stratos]

I agree, I will get the Tiger II as a frontline fighter. Used as the main fighter of some air forces will be the perfect match for the 21Bis. Just hope to get the AN/APQ-159 so I can find my enemies with the radar.

[BIGNEWY]

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Guys please review the rules, treat each other with respect when posting.

 

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[Charly_Owl]

I only said they have the same callsign or the number after the alphabet F is the same, could you understand, you banana?

 

Hey, careful with the name-calling!

 

Bananas have feelings too.

[Avimimus]

The GPU-5/A?

I doubt it, since it can't be fitted to the F-5E without modifications.

 

They just need to replace the central hard point with a heavier duty one - correct?

 

Shouldn't be that hard. The trigger mechanism is self-contained. So, it would just be producing graphical changes to one part of the 3d model. No changes to avionics, or other features required!

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

I agree, I will get the Tiger II as a frontline fighter. Used as the main fighter of some air forces will be the perfect match for the 21Bis. Just hope to get the AN/APQ-159 so I can find my enemies with the radar.

 

I sense that there's some.. bias to your statement. :thumbup:

 

 

I always forget that CASA license built F-5s for Spain. Were they only As or did they also produce Es?

[Stratos]

Only A's and B's. Not E's AFAIK. What a shame, isn't it?

[King_Hrothgar]

At least they didn't go the Buchon route and stick totally wrong engines in it.:lol:

 

In any case, I'm with you on the front line fighter part. Never understood the appeal of doing a simulation of a simulation of air combat. It seems a bit redundant to me. So I'm looking forwards to Iran/Iraq scenarios and other such missions instead. The F-5E has seen a lot of action over the years, so we have plenty of options for that.:thumbup:

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Really good docu on the F-5 series. Lots of awesome old school footage.

 

 

And who doesn't love some jingoistic advertisement?

 

[Exorcet]

In any case, I'm with you on the front line fighter part. Never understood the appeal of doing a simulation of a simulation of air combat.

 

To each their own, but a mission is a mission. Actual combat just involves live ordinance. I don't think doing training/aggressor missions is in anyway a step back from real combat. In each case, you still need to fly and fight. I admit my first thought with the DCS F-5 was making something similar to their brief use in Vietnam, but I think I'll also make a lot of use of the plane at NTTR too.

[lokodehortaleza]

Only A's and B's. Not E's AFAIK. What a shame, isn't it?

 

Yep, CASA didn't produce any E's. Some of the B's are still in service though, they're used for training. They were upgraded some time ago, new VOR/ILS & Tacan, new V/UHF radios, MFDs, onboard computer, new navigation system (INS/GPS), radar altimeter, HUD, training radar, HOTAS controls... They are calling these upgraded trainers the F-5M.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Either way, I hope there's a Spanish paintjob for the Tiger.

 

It's hot as all hell on the Warthog and the Black Shark, right now.

[dartuil]

If belsimtek announce the module its because its almost done or they just start it?

They are so quiet and secret.

[King_Hrothgar]

They've released 4 modules so far and with each one, they made the formal announcement only a few months before release. I don't think we'll get our hands on the F-5 in December, but January or February would be a pretty good bet.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

They've released 4 modules so far and with each one, they made the formal announcement only a few months before release. I don't think we'll get our hands on the F-5 in December, but January or February would be a pretty good bet.

 

There's already a good F-5 model in game, there's lots of good resources on the F-5 given its successful commercial history, and it's Belsimtek. I think having an F-5 in the near future is very likely.

[Vectury]

I think having an F-5 in the near future is very likely.

 

I think so too. I would expect it in Q1 of 2015, because it's Belsimtek :D

A F-5 is going to be a great addition to DCS. Finally a direct rival for the Mig-21!

[OutOnTheOP]

Personally, I'm looking forward to the F-5E, and I *hope* it's a WVR-only version. I'd like Maverick (just because so many missions online have tanks and IFVs as the main, if not only, ground targets, and dumb bombs are pretty crap against them), but I could do without sparrow or amraam.

 

The reason I look forward to the F-5 is the same as why I like the WW2 prop jobs: you have much more limited performance, you can't just climb and climb all day (since it has insufficient thrust:weight compared to the modern superbirds), and weapons employment parameters are more limited. All in all, it's less about the avionics, and more about pilot vs pilot. Dogfights last longer than with the high pK modern missiles, and the fight goes to the guy who out-thinks and out-flies his foe.

 

Also, the F-5 is just tiny and adorable. :D

[cofcorpse]

The reason I look forward to the F-5 is the same as why I like the WW2 prop jobs

 

Did you try Sabre and MiG? I think they are just in the middle between props and F-5 :pilotfly:

[King_Hrothgar]

The Sabre and MiG-15 are a lot of fun to fly on occasion, but they don't really fit in with anything else in DCS. Just having the sabre slug it out with the MiG-15 in a 1v1, 4v4, 20v20 or whatever gets old pretty fast imho. However, the F-5E and MiG-21Bis are perfectly happy with many existing AI units. So there is a lot of potential for interesting missions. I think the F-5E will be a far more satisfactory experience overall.

 

On a related note, the F-5 and MiG-21 go pretty well with the UH-1, Mi-8, Su-25A and A-10A. I'm hoping for a MP server restricted to just those (and maybe some of the COIN planes like the L-39ZA). It should make the choppers and mudmovers happy too, as it will be much easier for them to hide from an F-5 or MiG-21 than it is from a Su-27 or F-15.

[dartuil]

F-5 will rape the mig-21 imho.

How much AA missiles the F-5E can get?

[Esac_mirmidon]

4.

 

Don´t put all your eggs in the F-5 basket. The Fishbed could break some.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

The MiG-21bis will have a speed advantage and I want to say a climbrate advantage, but I haven't any information on the F-5E to be 100%. There could be a certain set up that allows the F-5E to close with and match the MiG in climb.

 

However, the F-5E is the more maneuverable fighter, better low speed handling, and better in a sustained turn. It's also got a much better gun set up, much better radar, and probably better missiles.

 

But, speed is life, after all.

 

Either way, MiG-21bis vs. F-5E is going to be a most perfect match up. ACM strategy wise, I'd anticipate it being similar to Yak-1/3 vs. Bf-109. Like the Yak, the F-5E jockey will want to try and draw the Fishbed into a maneuvering fight. Like the 109, the Fishbed will want to try and use speed and climb rate to avoid trouble.

[Exorcet]

Personally, I'm looking forward to the F-5E, and I *hope* it's a WVR-only version. I'd like Maverick (just because so many missions online have tanks and IFVs as the main, if not only, ground targets, and dumb bombs are pretty crap against them), but I could do without sparrow or amraam.

 

The reason I look forward to the F-5 is the same as why I like the WW2 prop jobs: you have much more limited performance, you can't just climb and climb all day (since it has insufficient thrust:weight compared to the modern superbirds), and weapons employment parameters are more limited. All in all, it's less about the avionics, and more about pilot vs pilot. Dogfights last longer than with the high pK modern missiles, and the fight goes to the guy who out-thinks and out-flies his foe.

 

Also, the F-5 is just tiny and adorable. :D

 

If there is a choice between BVR capable and not, I'd go with BVR (assuming similar levels of other technology, so not comparing a 70's F-5 to a 90's+ model). It's no less about pilots really It might even be more about skill as WVR is more intuitive than BVR. If the F-5 has better radar and RWR than the MiG, we're going to see the same arguments as in the FC3 forum as those about Su-27 and F-15.

 

If you really wanted WVR, you could just ban BVR missiles. I think close dogfighting can get old when its a given though. That's something I like about the modern fighters. If you get into WVR, it feels a lot more heated.

 

F-5 will rape the mig-21 imho.

How much AA missiles the F-5E can get?

 

The AI in DCS can carry 6 AIM-9 max, so MiG-21 can carry the same amount (unless 2x R-60 can be carried inboard, but I don't think so).

 

I think better GCI/general command and control simulation should be a priority at some point. The MiG is even more dependent on it than the Su-27, etc, and it would have a decent impact on the F-5 vs MiG-21 match up.

[King_Hrothgar]

We have a 1970's MiG-21 so I'd prefer a 1970's F-5E. That means no BVR at all. AIM-7's and AIM-120's weren't introduced until much more recently and are typically associated with those upgraded to have glass cockpits and modern RWR's. They are F-5E's in name only. Oh, and the MiG-21Bis in DCS can carry 4x R-60 + 4x R-60M, but not 8 of one type for some reason (might have changed in 1.5, haven't tested).

[cofcorpse]

I'm sorry, but standard F-5E can carry only two AIM-9, at wingtips.

[WinterH]

I also prefer F-5E to be a baseline one, to keep things interesting between MiG-21 and itself, and to keep growing stable of 70s-early 80s 3rd gen aircraft well rounded.

 

Between Tiger and Fishbed I think deciding factor may be what types of Sidewinder can F-5 carry, if it can carry AIM-9M, that is significantly superiour to MiG's air to air missiles already. Regarding the Maverick, it would be quite cool to have if possible, but I wouldn't lament either if we get a non maverick capable version.