DCS: F-5E!

[Tarres]

No AN/APX-72 or 101?

 

I though that was a standard equipment.

 

Source: F-5E Flight manual, section 1, page 94-95 (T.O.F-5E1 1978 )

Edited February 17, 2016 by Tarres

[cofcorpse]

No AN/APX-72 or 101?

 

Yes, you are right. AN/APX-72 in our case. And it is used for "Automatic coded replies to ground interrogation for aircraft identification and air traffic control".

 

But the question was about joint work with radar.

[Tarres]

Ok. Thanks Cofcorpse.

[King_Hrothgar]

I just read that part of the manual. The AN/APX-72 is simply a military transponder. It allows other units to IFF the F-5E but doesn't do anything to allow or disallow the F-5E to IFF other things. It isn't connected to the radar at all. I couldn't find anything on IFF for the radar. I suppose it doesn't matter too much since all its weapons are WVR anyways on. But it is a little surprising as western electronics were generally better than soviet ones at the time and yet the MiG-21 has IFF.

[Tarres]

The USAF E-3 block was designed for WVR training, so it´s not surprising.

 

Maybe the export Tiger II had an IFF system as a customer requeriment.

[SkateZilla]

so no way to tell friend from foe using radar?

 

you need to get eyes on before in ID?

 

Well thats a little bit worrying =(.

 

Even the Mig-21Bis had some IFF Functions.

 

F-5E has no BVR capability,, so You'd have to visually see the target to lock and fire on it.

[mattebubben]

F-5E has no BVR capability,, so You'd have to visually see the target to lock and fire on it.

 

Sure but even if you can see a target that is not enough to ID Friend or foe in this game.

 

With most MP missions especially having Both sides flying the same aircraft etc.

 

And while the IFF in reality would be easier since you would likley know what your enemies have and what you friendlies have aswell as having awacs etc to tell friend and foe.

 

But in the game its not as easy as all that.

 

So having to get close enough to see the National markings might be problematic =P especially if ur fighting more advanced airplanes.

 

And i would not count the mig-21Bis as a bvr fighter... but it has the abillity to tell enemy and friend apart on the radar (atleast ingame)

 

So i was hoping the F-5E did aswell.

 

But this will just limit the Missions it will be as usefull in wont stop me from getting it.

[King_Hrothgar]

All it means is it won't be viable on 104th's everything vs everything missions, but I don't think it was ever going to be terribly viable there anyways. I think the F-5's main playground will be in a proper 1970's to early 1980's server without FC3 fighters or the Mirage. I expect it will be sufficiently popular to become a permanent server with ground attack aircraft and choppers too.

[Kev2go]

All it means is it won't be viable on 104th's everything vs everything missions, but I don't think it was ever going to be terribly viable there anyways. I think the F-5's main playground will be in a proper 1970's to early 1980's server without FC3 fighters or the Mirage. I expect it will be sufficiently popular to become a permanent server with ground attack aircraft and choppers too.

 

you cant truely have a 1970s cold war server

 

since its just f5e vs mig21bis since there are no other plane modules yet from the time period.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Kev2go

[King_Hrothgar]

I'm pretty sure we have the Su-25A, A-10A, L-39ZA, UH-1H and Mi-8MTV, all of which are from the late 1970's to early 1980's. But maybe I just imagined those aircraft being flyable in DCS.:P

[Kev2go]

I'm pretty sure we have the Su-25A, A-10A, L-39ZA, UH-1H and Mi-8MTV, all of which are from the late 1970's to early 1980's. But maybe I just imagined those aircraft being flyable in DCS.:P

 

I meant fixed wing from a similar generation that are full fidelty modules.

 

and Uh1 and mi8 are from the 60s.

 

 

cuse those aircraft that star showing up in the mid 70s are next gen.

 

ie f14a by leatherneck thats being developed is from the 70s, but hey I doubt anyone would want to face that in a f5 or mig21 or against the USAFs F-15a ( if it were in game)

 

i meant fighters like the F4E with wing slats and mig23 series, being accompanied by the likes of ground attckers like a7 corsair

 

dunno about you but i dont know of any air force that used both a10a and f5 in an actual military service combat role.

 

 

 

at the end of the day id say it makes more sense to have 60s to early 70s server than 70 to early 80s, because of the hupe leap into 4th generation, and modern missiles withn late 70s- early 80s.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Kev2go

[RoflSeal]

AJS Viggen can also act as 70s aircraft if you don't use some weapons like BK 90

[King_Hrothgar]

I meant fixed wing from a similar generation that are full fidelty modules.

 

and Uh1 and mi8 are from the 60s.

 

 

cuse those aircraft that star showing up in the mid 70s are next gen.

 

ie f14a by leatherneck thats being developed is from the 70s, but hey I doubt anyone would want to face that in a f5 or mig21 or against the USAFs F-15a ( if it were in game)

 

i meant fighters like the F4E with wing slats and mig23 series, being accompanied by the likes of ground attckers like a7 corsair

 

dunno about you but i dont know of any air force that used both a10a and f5 in an actual military service combat role.

 

 

 

at the end of the day id say it makes more sense to have 60s to early 70s server than 70 to early 80s, because of the hupe leap into 4th generation, and modern missiles withn late 70s- early 80s.

 

By that logic, no competitive full fledged missions are currently possible as we only have 1-2 study sim level aircraft from each of the periods represented (and that is not expected to change in the next 2-3 years as no one is developing eastern aircraft atm). As for introduction dates, I consider them irrelevant. What matters to me is what fought what and whether or not it would be fun to create similar scenarios in game. My previous post lists aircraft that can be used to create both realistic and fun scenarios, nothing more. That said, Saudi F-5E's served alongside USAF A-10A's in the 1991 Gulf War. Both were used for CAS.

 

As for the F-14A. There are two options that are both realistic and balanced. The first is Iranian F-14's, which were terribly limited in operational numbers during the Iran/Iraq war. So those are easy to balance with highly restrictive numbers (think 2 F-14's out of 30+ flyable fighters). It's also worth noting the Iraqis had a handful of MiG-25's and MiG-29A's too. So same deal with them. If we're talking USN service, then the F-14's spawn with broken engines on an aircraft carrier 2000km from the the rest of the fight.:D

Edited February 19, 2016 by King_Hrothgar
spelling

[bgabor911]

I am waiting for the F-5E module for a long time now.

Yesterday I noticed that Belsimtek plans to implement some very early version of the F-5E.

 

"The following armament is planned to be available for the player:

Two heat-seeking missiles (AIM-9B or AIM-9P) (currently we are considering these versions);"

Only two, non-all aspect Sidewinders? WTF??? I certainly wont buy the plane with these very limited capabilities!

We need the popular late version with its six AIM-9L all aspect Sidewinders! Implementing a very early version that cannot fight even the MiG-21 is not making sense!

[mattebubben]

I am waiting for the F-5E module for a long time now.

Yesterday I noticed that Belsimtek plans to implement some very early version of the F-5E.

 

"The following armament is planned to be available for the player:

Two heat-seeking missiles (AIM-9B or AIM-9P) (currently we are considering these versions);"

Only two, non-all aspect Sidewinders? WTF??? I certainly wont buy the plane with these very limited capabilities!

We need the popular late version with its six AIM-9L all aspect Sidewinders! Implementing a very early version that cannot fight even the MiG-21 is not making sense!

 

What F-5E can carry 6 Aim-9L...?

 

And while a Aim-9L might not be realistic there will likley be a Aim-9P4 or P5 avaliable

Wich is the All aspect variant of the Aim-9P

 

And a F-5E with 2 All aspect Aim-9P4/P5 missiles will be more then enough to fight a Mig-21Bis.

 

And no its not a very early F-5E variant...

 

Since it has the APQ-159 radar its probably late 70s or early 80s.

 

And no F-5E (factory standard) can employ 4-6 missiles.

 

a Few Users has upgraded Their F-5Es to 4 missiles with the addition of new more streamlined pylons on the outermost underwing hardpoint.

 

But Factory standard for the F-5E is only the wingtip missiles.

 

the F-5E is no Air superiority fighter.

 

And 2 All aspect missiles should be more then enough for 1-2 enemies depending on how well you pick ur shots and then you have ur guns ontop of that.

 

So as long as we get the Aim-9P4 or P5 (wich IIRC all F-5E can carry and alot if not most of the operators used them)

 

The P4 also entered service at about the same time as the R-60M so they should be considered contemperary missiles

(even if the Aim-9P4 is fully all aspect while the R-60M is just limited all aspect)

 

The F-5E should be very competative against the Mig-21 so it makes perfect sense.

 

I just wish they would give us confirmation on a Aim-9P4 Or P5 so we know what to expect

(both of those are completley realistic and are used on the F-5E on a large number off users Including The Swiss,Jordania,Saudi Arabia,Thailand,Taiwan,South korea and plenty of others)

Edited February 19, 2016 by mattebubben

[Drastuc]

Only two, non-all aspect Sidewinders? WTF??? I certainly wont buy the plane with these very limited capabilities!

We need the popular late version with its six AIM-9L all aspect Sidewinders! Implementing a very early version that cannot fight even the MiG-21 is not making sense!

Kindly provide a source for that 6 * AIM-9L claim. As for claiming this is an early F-5E, It's more modern that the MiG-21bis!

[WinterH]

It can fight the MiG alright. Also, while not yet confirmed, most of us think it is quite likely we will get AIM-9P4 or P5, which are all aspect variants of P. Two such missiles and a better radar gunsight is a match for the MiG alright, not to mention much more carefree handling and higher agility.

 

With -159 radar, auto maneuvring flaps, RWR and counter measures, it isn't really a very early version.

 

I for one, am looking forward to flying it.

[OperatorJack]

I am waiting for the F-5E module for a long time now.

Yesterday I noticed that Belsimtek plans to implement some very early version of the F-5E.

 

"The following armament is planned to be available for the player:

Two heat-seeking missiles (AIM-9B or AIM-9P) (currently we are considering these versions);"

Only two, non-all aspect Sidewinders? WTF??? I certainly wont buy the plane with these very limited capabilities!

We need the popular late version with its six AIM-9L all aspect Sidewinders! Implementing a very early version that cannot fight even the MiG-21 is not making sense!

 

It's its own plane, it doesn't need to be a perfect match up for the MiG. It will be anyway despite not having all aspect IR missiles, which the MiG also lacks

 

Do you really want an F-5E or do you want an F-15C that looks like an F-5 :pilotfly: :pilotfly: :joystick: :megalol: ;) :smartass: :smartass: :smartass:

Edited February 19, 2016 by OperatorJack

[shagrat]

I am waiting for the F-5E module for a long time now.

Yesterday I noticed that Belsimtek plans to implement some very early version of the F-5E.

 

"The following armament is planned to be available for the player:

Two heat-seeking missiles (AIM-9B or AIM-9P) (currently we are considering these versions);"

Only two, non-all aspect Sidewinders? WTF??? I certainly wont buy the plane with these very limited capabilities!

We need the popular late version with its six AIM-9L all aspect Sidewinders! Implementing a very early version that cannot fight even the MiG-21 is not making sense!

Yes, actually they model an original F-5E Tiger II... So all this armament is faithfully to the stock Northrop Product.

 

What you want here is a wild mix of multiple customer modifications, to give you a pretty unrealistic edge in dogfighting, because you are afraid of fighting a MiG-21 in a contemporary aircraft?

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

I am waiting for the F-5E module for a long time now.

Yesterday I noticed that Belsimtek plans to implement some very early version of the F-5E.

 

"The following armament is planned to be available for the player:

Two heat-seeking missiles (AIM-9B or AIM-9P) (currently we are considering these versions);"

Only two, non-all aspect Sidewinders? WTF??? I certainly wont buy the plane with these very limited capabilities!

We need the popular late version with its six AIM-9L all aspect Sidewinders! Implementing a very early version that cannot fight even the MiG-21 is not making sense!

 

The F-5E enjoys enormous advantages over the MiG-21. It's better maneuvering at practically every airspeed and has a proper search radar.

 

Two heaters will not be a huge problem. After all, the MiG-21's biggest advantage is top speed and to achieve that speed, you need a lot of heat. While the F-5E is slower, know what is faster than a MiG-21? An AIM-9.

[Tirak]

The F-5E enjoys enormous advantages over the MiG-21. It's better maneuvering at practically every airspeed and has a proper search radar.

 

Two heaters will not be a huge problem. After all, the MiG-21's biggest advantage is top speed and to achieve that speed, you need a lot of heat. While the F-5E is slower, know what is faster than a MiG-21? An AIM-9.

 

 

We'll all find out in a few months, but I do think that the MiG is going to have one hell of an advantage going into the merge. If the F-5 survives past that point it'll be dangerous, but that opening shot... well the MiG gets to take the first one...

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

We'll all find out in a few months, but I do think that the MiG is going to have one hell of an advantage going into the merge. If the F-5 survives past that point it'll be dangerous, but that opening shot... well the MiG gets to take the first one...

 

The R-3R will be nasty during the merge, but having a proper search radar is still a pretty big advantage.

[Golo]

The R-3R will be nasty during the merge, but having a proper search radar is still a pretty big advantage.

 

It wont be if F-5s get all aspect heater, than the MiG-21 is facked basicly.

Head-on merge with F-5s carying those missiles? No thanks, RTB and to the officer club for some vodka instead for me.

[Tirak]

It wont be if F-5s get all aspect heater, than the MiG-21 is facked basicly.

Head-on merge with F-5s carying those missiles? No thanks, RTB and to the officer club for some vodka instead for me.

 

Just because a sidewinder is all aspect, doesn't mean it has the same detection range from the front as it would the back. Head to head, advantage is most definitely the MiG's.

[mattebubben]

Just because a sidewinder is all aspect, doesn't mean it has the same detection range from the front as it would the back. Head to head, advantage is most definitely the MiG's.

 

Well depends if the R-3R and Mig-21Bis Radar are patched to more realistic preformance.

 

But also the Seeker of the Aim-9P4 is a slightly simplified variant of the Aim-9L seeker.

 

So why not make a test.

 

If the Aim-9L can get a solid look before the R-3R can get into range.

 

Ppl need to take into account that the R-3R is a late 1960s missile that is currently preforming.

 

It should be far less effective against a small manuvering target then it is.

 

But Both the R-3S and R-3R are overpreforming.

 

And that has not been as much of a problem when all the Mig-21Bis was facing was more advanced aircraft.

 

But its much more likley to be fixed with the addition of Contemporary aircraft.

 

:Edit

 

Well Usually IR seekers (atleast more modern ones) get a solid lock before they get into effective range (especially in a chase)

 

And it also depends on the targets power settings.

 

Against a Mig-21 on full afterburner the Aim-9P4 could most likley get a solid lock at the max firing range.

Edited February 19, 2016 by mattebubben