C-101CC September release?

[rrohde]

I bought A-10C on day one, Ka-50 even before it was released to the Western World (a privately imported CD from Russia), and every other DCS addon while it still was in beta. I usually know what to expect. If only Aviodev C-101 was as "incomplete" as other DCS beta addons out there (expect VEAO), then we wouldn't even have this topic to discuss.

 

I think it's safe to assume that ED and Belsimtek have the best track record when it comes to releases so far, and I throw my money at them without hesitation. Some 3rd party developers have yet to instill that level of confidence in me; as you said before - lesson learned.

[kontiuka]

I understand people's concerns and maybe I'm overly patient myself but when I bought the beta back in January I didn't really have any expectations as to timeline. I just sort of assumed it would be sometime in 2016.

 

That being said, yes, the progress updates have been scanty but we are seeing concrete progress on the module itself. Most notably, the seat switching which was available a few months back and most recently the ability to click switches in the back seat (although they aren't functional yet). No, it isn't working in 2.0 but that's an alpha so let's not go there. I think they said it's fixed internally anyway.

 

I truly believe they are working their asses off. Will we see something by Christmas? No, probably not but in the upcoming year, yeah, I have high hopes for it. Just wanted to chime in.

[tob.s]

i gotta admit that im quite feed up with aviodev and while im not trying to flame i think that all the support from the community distracts from the legal facts. I also think that Aviodev doesnt see the gravity off the (legal) situation cause off all those "its done when its done / quality takes its time ... posts". One year with nearly no progress is nowhere a expecatble / reasonable or acceptable delay and if the custumers would sue for refund it would certainly be the end off aviodev.

 

 

first to show why the Beta status doesnt affect the missing cc version in my view - this is the official pricing copied from aviodevs post:

 

C-101EB=19.99$

C-101CC=39.99$

 

AFM (C-101 EB)=FREE

 

AFM (C-101 CC)=FREE

 

TOTAL=59.99$

 

source.

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http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=137881

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( sry but i wouldnt wonder too much if this thread will disapper soon )

 

So 2/3 off my money went into nothing but promisses.

 

Also i only bought the EB because it was bundled with the CC - to me the EB is an added value to the CC and not the other way around, which also is refelceted by its sale price. So even if the Eb was finished with all promissed features i only would have one third off what i payed for. One year off delay is not only unacceptable but ridicioluls.

The CC isnt a unimplemented feature of the EB, its a module/product of its own. I spend 40$, waited a whole year and didnt recieve anything in exchange.

 

It was stated that the cc would be released soon after the eb , but first the eb needs its major bugs fixed / features completed as the cc is based upon the eb. Thats okay as long as this takes some weeks, perhaps even few months, but u cant expected anyone to expected more than a year off waiting.

 

As for Aviodevs internal problems im sorry - but even if your company burns down over night it doesnt change the fact that we gave u money and now u got to deliver or refund if u cant deliver - things happen. I recently lost a job because i got ill and had to stay in bed few days after starting at the job, but even after telling this to the cashier at the supermarket i still had to pay for my food - its a cruel world. U cant blame your custumers for your problems.

 

Also the statement that the ccs systems turned out to be more complicated than they thought is odd - to mee it made it worse as it shows that the cc wasnt anywhere near to release when they started selling it. I realy doubt that the CCs systems to be more complicated than any other modules. I only can asume that aviodev lacks the needed competences/personal to finish the product.

 

It all seems like they sold the cc without having anything - thinking once they got the eb theyll just strapp some bombs on it, tweak the model a bit and voila - finished CC. Now this turned out to be huge work and they have no idea how to finish it, but as long as money flows in they keep up the fassade - once sales drop and all the money is spend theyll say " sorry but we cant finish.." and turn insolvent - thats the standard kickstarter s*** - even if the get sued to refund, there will be no money left.

 

I realy think its time for us customers to set an ultimatum and, iff theres no progress or atleast a statement on how this will be solved, start a class action lawsuit for refund. While its not my whish to destroy a potential source off new modules im feed up with game developers which seemingly are above the law - every other business treating theyr customers like this wouldnt survive a month. If apple would presell its new iphone for some weeks and then say, "ooops there will be a one year delay" people would not only sue apple but riot in the streets. If its a game dev people say " oh pour game dev, maybee ill get my game if i just give him more money"

 

-wake up people-

 

its a business, devs should know about this or atleast have the balls to clearly say whats the matter and find a way to solve the problem together with the communtiy/customers.

[hesterj]

So, tob.s, you gave money to the kickstarter and you want your money back because the product hasn't appeared yet? Hmm. Talk of a class action is frankly ridiculous. Good luck finding a lawyer to help you with your pursuit of 40$ for a largely international company.

 

As people have said above, purchasing a pre-release beta is not a guarantee, especially with no hard timelines at all! Consider it money to charity if it doesn't appear, and an investment for the future of the game when it (and I believe it will) does come around.

[Hook47]

Let me remind you the quote from the official ED Newsletter released 21 Jan:

 

 

 

That's what I bought. A "complete C-101EB model" with C-101CC scheduled for Feb 2015 release. Almost a year later neither C-101EB is complete nor C-101CC has been released even as a beta.

 

According to you, how much more patience should I grow before I am allowed to voice my disappointment?

 

 

 

And any developer who sells unfinished software, must accept that when he encounters difficulties and delays, whatever the reason, paying customers will get angry. Two sides of the same coin.

 

 

Ah well, beating a dead horse here. But at least I learned my lesson.

 

This hits the nail on the head. There is a point where it is no longer reasonable to expect ample patience and cheerful attitudes, and the lack of actual information from the devs other than "We are workin' compounds the situation.

 

NeilWillis, I do not care if you do not share our opinions, but please desist trying to silence anyone who disagrees with you. The fact that there are so many frustrated customers speaks to the reality that there is an issue here, regardless of what you or I think "Beta" does or does not mean. You make it sound like we forced AvioDev to release an unfinished product because we were so desperate to part with our money, but I am quite sure AvioDev was motivated to start selling the C-101 as soon as they could, because they wanted that money.

 

Beta is not a catch all label to alleviate the dev from any and all responsibility to their consumer. It still exists, whether the project went on sale before it was finished or not, and in consideration of that responsibility I think more/better information would be appropriate. I am afraid the last few dev "updates" have really told us absolutely nothing.

 

I am afraid you are indeed missing the point here, NeilWillis, there has been plenty of patience, but at this point I and I think many others want some actual explanation as to what is being done on the module.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Hook47

[tob.s]

So, tob.s, you gave money to the kickstarter and you want your money back because the product hasn't appeared yet? Hmm. Talk of a class action is frankly ridiculous. Good luck finding a lawyer to help you with your pursuit of 40$ for a largely international company.

 

thats the point i didnt give money to kickstarter, i didnt bake - i bought a 101 CC beta bundled with an eb beta from eds store nearly a year ago and i didnt recive a CC beta till yet. It wasnt about bakin, it was clearly stated that the cc will be relased soon after the eb on eds store page (which was changed multiple times - now it says ... cc will be released later) so it was a presale. I underlined will be released to show that its promised to be released, no maybee, no if..., it stated that it will be released - thats the differnce to kickstarter where they say we want/plan to release until... if...

 

As people have said above, purchasing a pre-release beta is not a guarantee

 

If there are no statements about timeframes, the buyer can expect to get his goods within an usual/reasonable time - and even for dcs modules, one year isnt usual.

 

talk of a class action is frankly ridiculous.

 

no, ridiculous is that people have no idea off theyr rights and belive a company is always right or too powerful to be sued, especial a "largely international company" - like aviodev ?jeah im sure aviodev has millions of employees all over the world and even an outpost on the moon where they collect cheese to feed theyr underwater mice ( underwater mice are best at coding flight models as we all know, but they only live on the ocean floor and eat moon cheese) - seriously ?.

 

Btw. Ubisoft recently got succesfully sued for their Assins Creed Bug dysaster, and they offerd the plaintiffs an solution outside the court. The plaintiffs had to sign to not give information about what they got in exchange, but u can be sure that it was more than they would have got by court. Shortly after Ubisoft offered all customers of Ac another game for free if they admit not to sue ubisoft ( which btw was hidden in the free games terms & conditions which off course caused a huge shitstorm once it was discovered ).

 

 

while i too think there will be no sue on aviodev i must say the do very little to get that much support and trust from the comuminty

[johnv2pt0]

So why do you buy them?

 

Aviodev made no bones about the fact that they were releasing an incomplete module, and at no stage have they ever given a timeline for the full release, just like every other developer including Eagle dynamics themselves.

 

Frankly your views are no more valid than the ones asking for the price increases - especially if you have paid out money on a Beta module. If you haven't paid out money then you are simply not entitled to a say.

 

It takes as long as it takes, and no one ever forced any buyer to participate in Beta releases, it is as simple as that. If you don't like it, then go fly something else!

 

 

What's funny is that you just made a straw man argument. When the debate is over sophists use techniques like this to make people think they've won.

 

But to answer your question that has no relevance to my post about updates not being updates...I have prepurchased the FIRST module from every developer as a show of good faith and trying to do my part to help these small businesses become successful. I will not be buying subsequent modules in beta form. Of course I payed out for this...otherwise I wouldn't be in this thread at all.

 

And lastly, this is all I'm going to say because quite frankly I think I'm experiencing a little r/k selection theory going on here (you being the r), we were talking to AvioDev. You stuck your nose in to argue with us. If you really think AvioDev is that great shouldn't you have enough faith in them to argue their own case? And think about the ramifications if they choose NOT to argue their own case.

 

:doh:

[NineLine]

Ok guys, knock it off... play nice or dont play at all.

[Hook47]

What's funny is that you just made a straw man argument. When the debate is over sophists use techniques like this to make people think they've won.

 

But to answer your question that has no relevance to my post about updates not being updates...I have prepurchased the FIRST module from every developer as a show of good faith and trying to do my part to help these small businesses become successful. I will not be buying subsequent modules in beta form. Of course I payed out for this...otherwise I wouldn't be in this thread at all.

 

And lastly, this is all I'm going to say because quite frankly I think I'm experiencing a little r/k selection theory going on here (you being the r), we were talking to AvioDev. You stuck your nose in to argue with us. If you really think AvioDev is that great shouldn't you have enough faith in them to argue their own case? And think about the ramifications if they choose NOT to argue their own case.

 

:doh:

 

+1 All excellent points.

[peyvolt]

Hi All:

 

We have read all your messages from here, We know that you can be angry about the delays. We understand you and we are working hard now in CC version right now, and AFM in parallel, we had problems and we resolved as soon as we could, and now we are working 7 days in a week, no holidays for us. We had finished the manual of C-101 EB and we will send to you in this days with PSD of texture together, we are checking all before sending you this files to you. We apologize to everyone and hope send to you CC version and AFM as soon as posible

 

Best Regards

 

 

Peyvolt

[splash]

Excellent news, thanks for the update. That will be a very nice reading for Christmas.

[Aginor]

Thanks again for your response, Peyvolt!

[Valinor]

Besides guys, it's not like the Hawk is doing much better regarding EFM and completition, is it?

 

Sure, they released some videos with the EFM. I assume the same could be done for the C-101 if they wanted to.

Instead for the C-101 it's possibile to use (to a certain extent) the shared cockpit feature, or at least switch seats, something that is not possible for the Hawk nor it will be in the future.

 

As long as the Beta is playable and enjoyable, i am not in such a hurry to get the C-101CC ready to fly right away.

Also it's a Beta, and the moment you read that you know time is never set.

[Hook47]

Besides guys, it's not like the Hawk is doing much better regarding EFM and completition, is it?

 

Sure, they released some videos with the EFM. I assume the same could be done for the C-101 if they wanted to.

Instead for the C-101 it's possibile to use (to a certain extent) the shared cockpit feature, or at least switch seats, something that is not possible for the Hawk nor it will be in the future.

 

As long as the Beta is playable and enjoyable, i am not in such a hurry to get the C-101CC ready to fly right away.

Also it's a Beta, and the moment you read that you know time is never set.

 

Yea but the C-101 is already a cut above the Hawk in a lot of areas, and thankfully Aviodev hasn't announced 40 other aircraft like VEAO, so I think the C-101 is in much better focus. The L-39 is way ahead of both though.

 

Anyway the latest response from Peyvolt is still a bit vague but thanks for the info about the manual, we certainly look forward to that and appreciate the hard work.

[Valinor]

Yea but the C-101 is already a cut above the Hawk in a lot of areas, and thankfully Aviodev hasn't announced 40 other aircraft like VEAO, so I think the C-101 is in much better focus. The L-39 is way ahead of both though.

 

Anyway the latest response from Peyvolt is still a bit vague but thanks for the info about the manual, we certainly look forward to that and appreciate the hard work.

 

I agree with the fact that VEAO announced too many planes, and it's unrealistic to see them all coming anytime soon, year wise.

 

However i guess it also depends how many guys are working on the project, i assume that VEAO has more people either way, and ED have the most competent people around regarding DCS world (after all, that is their job. most of VEAO guys do it in their free time, not sure about Aviodev).

 

In the end yeah, i think some patience is required.

[rrohde]

I guess it's hard to stack-up to the likes of ED and Belsimtek, as their track record in terms of module completeness and quality content sets the bar quite high.

[kontiuka]

I guess it's hard to stack-up to the likes of ED and Belsimtek, as their track record in terms of module completeness and quality content sets the bar quite high.

I'm sure we'll see the same level of completeness. Just going to take a bit of time.

[theGozr]

This is a great plane and a good looking aircraft it will be a pleasure to fly it there is no doubt slick look, dual seat controls .. Very clean good looking pit.. love it and I can't wait for the EFM and dual controls. If need any help let us know.

[Pelmo]

Peyvolt pls give us fresh news, pls..

[Coxy_99]

Peyvolt pls give us fresh news, pls..

 

Check the ED update ;)

[Regamuffin]

dont hold your breathe pal

[Coxy_99]

The C-101EB model is now complete, with the light attack C-101CC version close behind. The AvioDev Technical Team is comprised of rated pilots and engineers that are dedicated to providing the highest level of accuracy and realism.

The Beta of the C-101CC is scheduled to be released by the end of February 2015. Advanced flight models are currently in development and will follow the release of the C-101EB and C-101CC.

 

Some news would be great, Can i get a refund?

[kontiuka]

This must be 'trainer bashing day'. I've read bashes for the C-101, Hawk, and even the L-39.

[Coxy_99]

Im not bashing, Im asking for info on this module, Ive only quoted, Im not bothered about the other trainers i know where they stand, I dont know what Aviodev's progress is?

[Pelmo]

Two months ago peyvolt commented:

 

Hi All:

 

We have read all your messages from here, We know that you can be angry about the delays. We understand you and we are working hard now in CC version right now, and AFM in parallel, we had problems and we resolved as soon as we could, and now we are working 7 days in a week, no holidays for us. We had finished the manual of C-101 EB and we will send to you in this days with PSD of texture together, we are checking all before sending you this files to you. We apologize to everyone and hope send to you CC version and AFM as soon as posible

 

Best Regards

 

 

Peyvolt

 

Now, after two months of hard work, seven days a week, with no vacations, we could get some new news about CC version?

 

• C-101CC: initial weapon employment capability was restored/implemented. Still work in progress.
  

 

That's all?

 

You can not post new screenshots or show video on youtube that show the aircraft using certain types of weapons?

It takes too long? it's too hard? The work is still so far behind?

Come on! I can not believe this ..