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DCS: Flaming Cliffs 4


Schmidtfire
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I think the future is aimed more at full on DCS modules, we will no doubt see a Vietnam theme in future as enough aircraft from the period appear. Still, I like FC3, it is a good intro to the series so I often recommend it to others, maybe that kind of title will have a future, who knows..

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Hmm... I would rather the remaining planes in FC3 be upgraded to individual modules using advanced systems and professional (or whatever is highest) flight modelling.

 

As for themes they can be sold as maps and campaigns.

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Hmm... I would rather the remaining planes in FC3 be upgraded to individual modules using advanced systems and professional (or whatever is highest) flight modelling.

 

As for themes they can be sold as maps and campaigns.

that!!!

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I think that the overall community is better off with DCS level planes, so long as there is an auto start options and other ways for players not interested in complex systems start ups and management. So long as planes are accessible to everyone, I think we are ok. The team may want to look into ways of designing modules to better serve potential customers with physical disabilities and such, too.

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FC level planes have their place in DCS. It's a good place for new players to start and honestly, I think it's a safe bet FC3 is the single best selling DCS module even today. I'm not sure if I support more FC style stuff though. So far, no one has made a DCS plane that's already an FC3 plane. Getting that kind of doubling up is financially risky and it's probably best to avoid that situation entirely.

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Not sure about an "FC4" but more products like it are very welcome. More FC3 level (AFM/PFM + simplified avionics) modern era planes (80s-current) would be great. F-16s, Su-35s, MIG-29Ks, Eurofighter, Super Hornets, ect.

 

The current crop of DCS level aircraft are dull for a lot of us. Trainers are nice but are limited when it comes to combat roles and just not as entertaining for joy rides either. WWII does not interest me personally. The problem with more modern DCS level aircraft that they are hard to model due to lack of information and also extremely difficult to learn (think Falcon 4). For most of us who can't dedicate 6-8 hours a day they are sadly out of reach due to time limitations.

 

I know a lot of former FC1/2 players that have not bought DCS modules because they are not interested in the aircraft or don't have the time to learn extremely complex games.

 

"FC" planes are hard to learn, but not out of reach for most. This can also help drive sales (can learn more planes and therefore buy them). That is the main reason I am not picking up stuff like the MIG-15/F-86 aside from the lack of content for them. I'd buy them for around $3-5, but not going to spend more on something I'll fly in a few skirmishes before going back to the FC3 planes.

 

I hope ED & possibly a 3rd party studio or two starts pumping out some modern FC3 level planes. We have studios out there focusing on WWII, helicopters, trainers and a few doing semi modern fighters. Another studio diversifying would be nice.

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The problem with creating and selling FC aircraft is that to make them profitable, you couldn't make them with an AFM/PFM. ED's aircraft are a special case due to the way they were developed. Don't forget that the FC aircraft pricing is really not inclusive of the FM development since the price hasn't changed since the time when they were mostly SFM aircraft.

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The problem with more modern DCS level aircraft that they are hard to model due to lack of information and also extremely difficult to learn (think Falcon 4). For most of us who can't dedicate 6-8 hours a day they are sadly out of reach due to time limitations.

 

Unfortunately I have to agree. I don't want to because I would love to see (and buy) more DCS level aircraft but the sad fact is that I, and many others out there, do not have the time to learn and fly them all. I'm not saying they shouldn't be made, far from it, I'm just saying that the FC level aircraft certainly have their place.

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FC series should end with getting PFM for su-33 and mig-29.

We should move to clickable cockpit and EFM. (F-14 , Typhoon, M2000 and F1).

Time to kill the gap between FSX and DCS.

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Dartuil, In my opinion, there is room for both. Typhoon is a great exemple of an aircraft that deserves to be made at FC level. AFM/PFM and simple systems modeling. There is no way, and I mean no way, to simulate the systems properly. It's too new and classified. I rather have new FC aircraft and proper DCS modules, not something in between...

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I see your point. I have to agree with that.

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In my opinion su-33 is the best plane in DCS ATM.

It is multirole : carrier landing , AA refueling , can dogfight.

If ED say they stop others devlopment to focus on SU-33, I wont be angry.

What a beauty fighter :)

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Dartuil, In my opinion, there is room for both. Typhoon is a great exemple of an aircraft that deserves to be made at FC level. AFM/PFM and simple systems modeling. There is no way, and I mean no way, to simulate the systems properly. It's too new and classified. I rather have new FC aircraft and proper DCS modules, not something in between...

 

 

That is a common assumption, but don't forget that VEAO are making a version for the military and have the access needed. They have said themselves that they are confident they can offer a product that represents the real aircraft closely. And while they have admitted that some features may be left out, this is the case for other aircraft also such as the A-10c. In reality, we won't know what we are missing so it isn't really a problem. DCS is the best example of an in depth military flight sim, but given the nature of what is being simulated here (military aircraft) we have to accept that we will usually never get 100% accuracy. But we will get very close, which is good enough for me.

 

FC3 will remain a good introduction for new players as long as dcs exists. As much as I do like it, and the value it represents, I'd be happy to only see dcs level aircraft from now on.... As well as many of the FC3 aircraft being upped to full DCS level.

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I'd prefer everything to be a DCS level module. While it is often said that FC is easier on newcomers and simpler for people who don't have time to dedicate to DCS, I think it's only half true. It will vary from aircraft to aircraft and person to person. DCS level stuff isn't terribly hard to get flying even if you don't want to use quick starts and the like. I think it's harder to jump from one DCS module to the next than it is to swap between FC planes, but even the latter can be unintuitive.

 

Of course if people want FC modules and they are produced, I don't mind. Personally I care more about the flight model than system model (I certainly do want both though). I could live with modules releasing the AFM first and then doing the systems later as an option. It seems to be easier to do that in reverse order though seeing as that's how all the trainer 3rd party modules are being done.

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The problem with creating and selling FC aircraft is that to make them profitable, you couldn't make them with an AFM/PFM. ED's aircraft are a special case due to the way they were developed. Don't forget that the FC aircraft pricing is really not inclusive of the FM development since the price hasn't changed since the time when they were mostly SFM aircraft.

 

And how much more money does an AFM require over an SFM? I'd think going from simple to complex avionics + fully clickable cockpit would be a massive cost jump as well. I can see FC3 planes going for $20-30 (depending on aircraft) and still making money.

 

Obviously the level of detail in LOMAC was not as high as FC3, but they did manage to include all of those planes and an entire game for $40 (adjust for inflation). I'm not saying it will be easy or cheap, but I think an "FC3" level plane can be developed and sold for less than a study sim aircraft.

 

Unfortunately I have to agree. I don't want to because I would love to see (and buy) more DCS level aircraft but the sad fact is that I, and many others out there, do not have the time to learn and fly them all. I'm not saying they shouldn't be made, far from it, I'm just saying that the FC level aircraft certainly have their place.

 

Agreed. They can co-exist in the same game.

 

I'd prefer everything to be a DCS level module. While it is often said that FC is easier on newcomers and simpler for people who don't have time to dedicate to DCS, I think it's only half true. It will vary from aircraft to aircraft and person to person.

 

Comparing the same aircraft, FC3 will be notably easier. Clickable cockpits are honestly a massive pain to. It is slow and unintuitive. Things that are easy to figure out in the real world (push in, turn right) are not so obvious when you use a mouse. And example would be the Hawk's weapon arm switch. If I recall, you must remove the cover one way, and then click in a very particular spot to push it in. Simple to do in real life, a pain with a mouse. Add in maneuvering and it is even worse. I think it is better suited to FSX based games in which you fly large airliners in stable flight.

 

If you have a TracK IR then it will be noticeably easier, but still a pain. And most new comers do not have Track IRs.

 

The other issue is as you said, it will depend on the aircraft. A modern plane like the F-15C is easy to fly. You will have a hard time falling out of the sky with it. Compare that to the P-51 or UH-1, both of which are immensely harder to keep control of. The problem is when you go modern, the planes become easier to fly but harder to learn. When you go older, it reverses and becomes hard to fly but simple to understand. FC3 hits a sweet spot between complexity and ease of flight.

 

For new comers or more casual players, you need a middle ground. The Su-25T itself is borderline difficult in terms of flight characteristics. Something that is easy to fly but not too difficult to learn is what you need for attracting newcomers. I know that we can't make everything free, but I think making the MIG-29A free (and charging for the S) would go a long way in attracting new players. Systems wise it is not too complex, and flight wise (doubt this will change much with the AFM) it is also easy.


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According me wery classified planes should get in FC model and planes that are less classified and those we get can license from BOEING OR OTHERs companies should get full DCS level.

Fighters like F-22 or Rafale should get FC level. I doubt Dassault or lockheed let you make a clickable cockpit .

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According me wery classified planes should get in FC model and planes that are less classified and those we get can license from BOEING OR OTHERs companies should get full DCS level.

Fighters like F-22 or Rafale should get FC level. I doubt Dassault or lockheed let you make a clickable cockpit .

 

I doubt the care if switches are animated or not, like they probably don't care that the flaps are. The issue will be in how avionics work and possible cockpit layout. Depending on how much info they want to withhold, FC3 level might not even be possible.

 

But I'd love an F-16, Mirage 2000, Mirage F1 ect. in FC3 level. A "study sim level" avionics upgrade can be an option for those that want it. $30 for FC3 level, $60 for study sim level. If you upgrade to the study sim level and play a mission with said aircraft, upon spawning there can be an "FC3" or "study sim" option. This way we don't have to place "F-15C FC3" & "F-15C Study Sim" in a mission.

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How about a new entry in the Flaming Cliffs series?

Maybe a themed version like Flaming Cliffs: Vietnam or Flaming Cliffs: Falklands. :thumbup:

 

I'm all for a themed version as well. I would like to see a 1990s-themed entry as well, complete with rockin' '90s soundtrack!!! :pilotfly:

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t I'd love an F-16, Mirage 2000, Mirage F1 ect. in FC3 level. A "study sim level" avionics upgrade can be an option for those that want it. $30 for FC3 level, $60 for study sim level. If you upgrade to the study sim level and play a mission with said aircraft, upon spawning there can be an "FC3" or "study sim" option. This way we don't have to place "F-15C FC3" & "F-15C Study Sim" in a mission.

 

I'd really love to see this idea executed on.

 

I love the high-fidelity DCS modules, but there are definitely times where I like to jump into the FC3 aircraft, too. This solution (in the abstract) definitely offers the best of both worlds.

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Personally, I think FC is a good series. Although the system detail is no where near DCS level, it has a selection of aircraft and is easy for new comer to get start.

 

It'd be nice if ED were to continue the series with new aircrafts, maybe even some helos? :thumbup:

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