Improved Spotting

[Bucic]

...thanks for the tip, I've used steam to get screenshots so its jpeg by default, but you are right png would be better... anyway it's not only about dissapearing objects but also cases like aircrafts without one wing rendered for example. So the funny thing is that in DCS we are talkin about spotting the enemy and in IL2 Cliffs of Dover on the other hand people are talking about how to recognize whos friendly or foe from afar.

There's an option in steam to save uncompressed copies of jpeg screenshots. Check it out.

 

With regard to issues you experienced. If you can reproduce it - report it! :)

OPEN BETA - How to report a bug (FAQ & Guide)

[otto]

@deyv

 

 

If you have the hardware power and a 4k monitor try 4k resolution tha. It helps a lot.

I got a 4k with 3 scratches on surface for a low prince. Unfortunately no money for a new pc to actually run at 4k. The quality of my monitor might be still an advantage tho.

Edited March 21, 2016 by otto

[deyv]

@deyv

 

If you have the hardware power and a 4k monitor try 4k resolution tha. It helps a lot.

I got a 4k with 3 scratches on surface for a low prince. Unfortunately no money for a new pc to actually run at 4k. The quality of my monitor might be still an advantage tho.

 

Yea Im thinkin about new monitor, but not sure how GTX 970 will handle 4k

[gavagai]

IMO the modern A2A is the most challenging environment for spotting targets. Somehow this issue always gets focused on WWII but the modern era is more difficult.

Radar is only so useful if you understand how it works on the fighters. Think of it like a flashlight. It doesn't give you 360d awareness or make up for visual scanning.

 

I fly Falcon BMS. I'm well aware of the challenges, and I don't think they hold a candle to finding the enemy in a WW2 sim. Sorry.:)

[SharpeXB]

I fly Falcon BMS. I'm well aware of the challenges, and I don't think they hold a candle to finding the enemy in a WW2 sim. Sorry.:)

Falcon BMS has even more pronounced smart scaling than DCS. Doesn't it?

What about using BMS with scaling switched off?

[NineLine]

BMS is off topic here, please dont discuss other sims, lets concentrate on ED's efforts and what we think they can do to improve it.

[gavagai]

Falcon BMS has even more pronounced smart scaling than DCS. Doesn't it?

What about using BMS with scaling switched off?

 

errr, sorry sith, your reply wasn't visible to me when I was typing. I'll send a PM.

[KansasCS]

Yea Im thinkin about new monitor, but not sure how GTX 970 will handle 4k

I'm running at 1440p native on a 27" and I have similar issues wherein a bogey just disappears at certain angles. For that to happen they don't necessarily need to be far away.

High yoyoing fighters occasionally disappear from the screen in my case.

On the other hand, a fighter in the distance with clouds in the background might not be seen on it's own, but a white halo around him that essentially makes it look like a white spec is travelling across the cloud is always a dead giveaway. Under clear sky conditions, I would not have seen him.

Good for me, bad for him.

Most likely this has something to do with my graphics setup or some sort of lighting shader that gets interrupted by that distant fighter perhaps.

It is most recognizable when the sun is low, dusk or dawn, and the clouds are of a darker hue.

 

BTW, despite the fact that EDGE is one of the most gorgeous sim engines out there, it's one of the worst for spotting.

The scaling that was introduced solves some issues, but introduced new ones.

Also, the cockpit scratches and dirt smears are annoying beyond measure.

Even if one would take realism into account, real pilots focused on the distance, rendering any sort if dirt or scratch unobservable for the eye, unless of course they focused their eyes on it.

Just take a look at your window, focus on the rain dirt or something, then focus on something across the street. You'D be surprised how unphazed your eyes are by whats on the window.

 

I hope ED keeps up their constant betterment of this sim and tends to these issues soon.

[KansasCS]

please dont discuss other sims, lets concentrate on ED's efforts and what we think they can do to improve it.

Even harmless comparisons?

I play other flight sims out there and enjoy them all equally. I'm sure the majority here does.

As long as the arguments are constructive and on point, I'm sure it would be a positive contribution to the topic.

The modders of Team Fusion (Cliffs of Dover) for instance, introduced a canopy glare/reflection that can be spotted at certain angles and from afar.

The actual visual effect is quite simple

 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gZOOXFil3c[/ame]

 

The impact on gameplay though is very positive and immersive.

Something ED might want to take a look at ad consider :)

 

edit: I really intend no confrontation. Just like help contribute to DCSs improvements.

Edited March 21, 2016 by KansasCS

[Esac_mirmidon]

I´m sure that ED is going to find a solution for this problem not to far. Give them time.

[Bucic]

The switch to 2.0 aside, several core aspects of DCS have been confirmed as by ED devs as "needs to be reworked", i.e. aspects that need a ground-up rewrite or not far from it. Keep this in mind. That said,a section of a newsletter dedicated to the "improved visibility roadmap" would be grand ;)

Edited March 21, 2016 by Bucic

[SlipBall]

They really should start on a whole new game engine, visibility, damage, sound...would take them years, best get on it as soon as possible IMO

[IronJockel]

They really should start on a whole new game engine, visibility, damage, sound...would take them years, best get on it as soon as possible IMO

 

Nah a completely new programming language specifically for flight sims is needed. In the process a completely new hardware architecture should be developed by ED as well.

[Decibel dB]

DCS renders other aircraft much farther away than the other WWII sim on the market. In that game they completely spawn out at 6 miles. Yet that seems to work just fine there.

But a 6 mile spawn range would be impossibly close in modern air combat though.

 

Not true Sharpe, we easy loose sign off the boogie way within that range, and you need an awe full lot of zoom.

[Wolf Rider]

 

~, we easy loose sign off the boogie way within that range, and you need an awe full lot of zoom.

 

 

 

 

and there is the inherent "problem" of computer monitors and a 3D world being displayed on a 2D surface

 

 

 

 

I'm running at 1440p native on a 27" and I have similar issues wherein a bogey just disappears at certain angles. For that to happen they don't necessarily need to be far away.

High yoyoing fighters occasionally disappear from the screen in my case.

 

~

 

 

 

Unfortunately, that does happen in real life as well

 

 

 

 

~, we easy loose sign off the boogie way within that range, and you need an awe full lot of zoom.

 

 

yes, that does happen in real life also... takes the eyes off target for a second and target needs to be required - only problem is, target isn't where it is remembered as being, and a good target isn't going to advertise (if it can at all avoid it) its position to you.

 

just something to consider

Edited March 22, 2016 by Wolf Rider

[Bucic]

yes, that does happen in real life also... takes the eyes off target for a second and target needs to be required

Nice trivia to drop at parties ;) but hardly relevant here. Reason: not possible to be modeled. Even if possible, far simpler issues are far from being addressed.

 

Due to visibility issues turn fighters have huge advantage in DCS now. I mean, over energy and climb fighters. Plus there's always that shameful gaming industry disconnection between player and AI abilities. The way I see it an immediate workaround would be to have max acquisition range for the AI as a dynamic value based on player in FOV setting and display PPI.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Bucic

[KansasCS]

I'm running at 1440p native on a 27" and I have similar issues wherein a bogey just disappears at certain angles. For that to happen they don't necessarily need to be far away.

High yoyoing fighters occasionally disappear from the screen in my case.

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, that does happen in real life as well

 

 

 

 

Yes, if you take your eyes off the target and need to reacquire, it can be hard to spot the frontal profile of a fighter against a blue sky and the sun in your peripheral vision.

But I'm talking about fighters going completely invisible while having eyes on. You track him in a medium FOV and all of a sudden he completely blends with the sky. While it might be the case IRL, I'm sitting at a monitor, already hampered by that fact.

I guess there can never be a state in DCS where both realism and spotting comfort can be satisfied equally.

[gavagai]

yes, that does happen in real life also... takes the eyes off target for a second and target needs to be required - only problem is, target isn't where it is remembered as being, and a good target isn't going to advertise (if it can at all avoid it) its position to you.

 

just something to consider

 

In DCS the target disappears while you have your eyes on it.

 

Reacquiring a target after you take your eyes off it is a different topic for a different thread.

[Decibel dB]

yes, that does happen in real life also... takes the eyes off target for a second and target needs to be required - only problem is, target isn't where it is remembered as being, and a good target isn't going to advertise (if it can at all avoid it) its position to you.

 

just something to consider

 

Actually no, not like that, that's what I do for living. I understand that we can't produce or render on a monitor what it will look like in real life. The dimension, the perspective, the reflection and the colors just to name a few.

 

The way it is now is not realistic, far from it, we just keep loosing the boogie or can't pick pick them up at a normal range. I don't think it will ever be, to a certain extend even on modern professional sim it isn't. But if we love this game, please we have to stop saying that the visibility it's is good or calling it realistic, so it can be improve, we can all get closer to what spotting should be and enjoy it.

 

o7

Edited March 23, 2016 by Decibel dB

[SharpeXB]

In DCS the target disappears while you have your eyes on it.

This has never happened to me in DCS. At 1080p or UHD, version 1.2 or 1.5

Oh I have lost more targets than there are stars in the sky but they have never vanished while I was looking at them. A bandit can go behind a canopy frame for an instant and "vanish" but that's my bad not the game.

 

I know not to compare sims but the only flight sim which I experienced to be so awful with visibility problems that it was just unplayable was vanilla CoD. Of course that's because the game lacked any antialiasing at all and had some severe LOD problem. There planes did in fact vanish when you were looking at them or whole pieces like wings etc flickered out of visibility.

DCS is nothing like that. Even v1.2 was gorgeously better than CoD. At 1080p the aircraft outlines remain discernible and clear.

 

I know comparing games is a faux pas but I'm just saying DCS is no CoD in this regard.

Edited March 22, 2016 by SharpeXB

[gavagai]

This has never happened to me in DCS.

 

Count yourself lucky then. Remember that we have thousands of different hardware and software configurations playing the game.

[Aginor]

Yeah, there has been that case of stuff with bad LODs that were transparent when viewed from a certain angle. It could really happen.

In fact it happens right now with bridges I think. Saw it in another thread yesterday.

[KansasCS]

Even v1.2 was gorgeously better than CoD.

 

 

If You're still talking about vanilla CloD, then that is no feat worth mentioning. The release version is a mess. TF mods however are a close to a benchmark, IMHO. At least I can spot just fine, albeit targets being really small in the distance.

Of course, someone with a 1080p 50" screen will see a contact better than someone with a smaller screen and a higher resolution, simply because a pixel is larger. But such is the technicality of computer graphics.

 

 

 

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[Decibel dB]

I agree with KansasCS, CloD with the Team Fusion mods is far superior on that aspect, there is way less warping also on multiplayer, but that may have something to do with the fact that there is no dedicated server's per-se in DCS

[Darkwolf]

ED has introduced the impostors. It means they have acknowledged the issue. Visibility problem is gone. Unzoom and you'll see B17 dogfighting everywhere. At 80km, tanks looks huge like aircraft carriers.

 

 

Now I hope that won't be a "quickfix", because as it is now, it still need a lot of polishing, and obviously get locked as it is a 10yrs-old-easy cheating option.