Landing flare at Nellis

[recoil17]

I've had about four landings now at Nellis AFB. I was instructed by ATC to land on runway 21 (always picked 21L) each time I've landed. When I set my angle of attack and I'm coming down the glide slope everything is great, I trim the aircraft and continue descending. At least two or three separate times now right before touchdown the nose of the aircraft flares up at least 5-10 degrees on it's own. Anybody experience this?

 

Now that I type this, I remember on one landing I tried to trim the nose up more but after pressing the trim button at least four times, the nose didn't rise. Not long after this is when I started to touch down and the nose shot up into the air as if it took the game a few seconds to register the trim input?

 

I have a track saved that shows it if anybody is interested. I didn't have any problems like this in 1.5 and I haven't changed any controls or habits.

[GurbY]

Haven't experienced it myself. However, from IRL flying, there is a so called ground-effect. A sort of cushion of air that increased your lift when you reach a certain altitude above the ground. It doesn't result in more flaring (as in: more nose up) but does result in a little more lift, thus resulting in less sink rate.

It COULD be that it's implemented in the flight model; not sure because I haven't experienced it myself in the A10C. Will try to test.

[SturdyWings]

I've actually had that happen to me as well. Maybe they made the ground effect effect more noticable. I thought it was my second notch of flaps coming down at first but they were already down. It's definitely different than in 1.5

[Corrigan]

Weird. You guys should really post a track.

[recoil17]

I'll see if I can get a track up tonight. It's an hour long flight so I may try and make a new one that's short and to the point.

 

I did read somewhere that they were changing the landing physics. I landed on runway 3R last night and didn't have this happen.

 

EDIT:

 

Haven't experienced it myself. However, from IRL flying, there is a so called ground-effect. A sort of cushion of air that increased your lift when you reach a certain altitude above the ground. It doesn't result in more flaring (as in: more nose up) but does result in a little more lift, thus resulting in less sink rate.

It COULD be that it's implemented in the flight model; not sure because I haven't experienced it myself in the A10C. Will try to test.

 

It very well could have been more lift versus pitch. At the time I felt like it pitched up but I'll have to review the track and pay closer attention.

 

I've actually had that happen to me as well. Maybe they made the ground effect effect more noticable. I thought it was my second notch of flaps coming down at first but they were already down. It's definitely different than in 1.5

 

That's exactly what it felt like, it felt as if my flaps extended and I gained lift. I maybe getting the TVV confused with pitch increase. I think the TVV rose when it happened and I assumed my plane pitched up.

 

Here's where it was mentioned about the landing physics:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1931682&postcount=3

 

*2015

+ DCS:World (1.2.16.43180/Beta 1.5.1.47285/Alpha 2.0.0.47610.34)

* Environmental / 3D / FX improvements:

- Take off and Landing Physics (in progress)

Edited December 3, 2015 by recoil17

[Peter22]

I've had about four landings now at Nellis AFB. I was instructed by ATC to land on runway 21 (always picked 21L) each time I've landed. When I set my angle of attack and I'm coming down the glide slope everything is great, I trim the aircraft and continue descending. At least two or three separate times now right before touchdown the nose of the aircraft flares up at least 5-10 degrees on it's own. Anybody experience this?

 

Now that I type this, I remember on one landing I tried to trim the nose up more but after pressing the trim button at least four times, the nose didn't rise. Not long after this is when I started to touch down and the nose shot up into the air as if it took the game a few seconds to register the trim input?

 

I have a track saved that shows it if anybody is interested. I didn't have any problems like this in 1.5 and I haven't changed any controls or habits.

Yeap ..same here

[LcSummers]

Maybe its the desert heat.

[Chief1942]

Took the A-10C on the Instant Action mission "Nevada Vegas Tour". Took off from McCarrin and landed at Nellis. Was definitely an exaggerated ground effects situation on landing at Nellis. Since this is all "Alpha" I sense this issue will get it's fair share of attention as the ED folks find the time.

[ratherbegliding]

Is it dependent on the time of day?

Eg I would expect any thermal effect to happen between 10:00 and 20:00, say, but ground effect would be there all the time.

 

RBG

[skouras]

same here after i select the NEVADA Vegas tour mission and decide to land i experience a 3-5 degree flare that makes me go around no payload the aircraft had at this time...

[jcbak]

It's clear that the warmer temperature is affecting performance which is very realistic. Take off rolls are much longer.

[GurbY]

It's clear that the warmer temperature is affecting performance which is very realistic. Take off rolls are much longer.

I certainly noticed that too, much more runway needed!

[noobsbane283]

I too had the same experience in the Vegas Tour mission. I also encountered what my pilot brain told me was severe down-draughts shortly after over-flying Hoover, but what my gamer brain told me was some kind of input bug, a phenomenon that felt connected with the weird flare later on in the flight. I needed a massive amount of elevator trim to keep the nose level after Hoover and clearing the mountains didn't alleviate the need for that trim so some kind of 2.0 airflow realism didn't seem to be the cause.

[Scaley]

I had similar happen n 1.5, but now you mention it I can only think nk of it happening with a relatively light load.

 

There also appears to be a similar effect around other aircraft - a big pitch down when crossing under another fighter for example. I assumed it was rather aggressive wake modelling.

[Frusheen]

I too had the same experience in the Vegas Tour mission. I also encountered what my pilot brain told me was severe down-draughts shortly after over-flying Hoover, but what my gamer brain told me was some kind of input bug, a phenomenon that felt connected with the weird flare later on in the flight. I needed a massive amount of elevator trim to keep the nose level after Hoover and clearing the mountains didn't alleviate the need for that trim so some kind of 2.0 airflow realism didn't seem to be the cause.

 

There is an area of turbulence under the bridge at Hoover dam. Fly a Huey under it and you'll see it straight away.

[Cykyrios]

It's not really turbulence, it's the same kind of glitch you can already find in some hangars and oil rigs in 1.2 and 1.5.

More details and a track here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=154325

 

Whether it's related to what is described here, however, I do not know.

[noobsbane283]

Frusheen it wasn't immediately after Hoover, it was more in the next couple of minutes that followed, as you fly through the canyon and break over the ridge, but the problem remained after that section.

[rrohde]

Same here, and just as skouras said, it happened for me in the Nevada Vegas Tour mission.

[ctannell]

I had the same issue in the Vegas tour. I've posted a bug report with a track in the flight dynamics bug section of the A-10C.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=154018

 

It's very strange. I needed to go almost full stick forward despite being perfectly trimmed before until I could get the trim reset again.

 

I think noobsbane was onto something. If you look at the trim setting using the control position window (Rt Ctrl + Enter), before flying under the hoover dam the trim setting is about the big diamonds height above neutral. After the hoover dam at the same speeds the trim ended up around the neutral position as if it was compensating for a nose down force. At flare it's as if the nose down force disappears causing the nose to pop up. You can see that after the go-around caused by the attitude change, the trim gets set to the same position as before the hoover dam.

Edited December 6, 2015 by ctannell

[Yurgon]

I had the same issue in the Vegas tour. I've posted a bug report with a track in the flight dynamics bug section of the A-10C.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=154018

 

I watched the track and saw it happen.

 

I then flew the mission myself (from the Instant Action menu, not from the track file), landed at the same runway at McCarren and everything was fine. So maybe something changes over time, or it does have to do with visiting a certain area, or it might have to do with time of day or temperature (the tour takes what, 30 minutes or so? My take-off and go-around was only 5 minutes, so the outside air temperature might in fact be different).

[ctannell]

I watched the track and saw it happen.

 

I then flew the mission myself (from the Instant Action menu, not from the track file), landed at the same runway at McCarren and everything was fine. So maybe something changes over time, or it does have to do with visiting a certain area, or it might have to do with time of day or temperature (the tour takes what, 30 minutes or so? My take-off and go-around was only 5 minutes, so the outside air temperature might in fact be different).

 

I'm pretty sure that the glitch gets triggered as you fly under the dam (or just a bit past the dam). If you follow the route in Vegas tour I expect you'll get it. The landing part (which is the more noticeable part by far) is, I suspect anyway, just the glitch returning to normal.

[Donut]

I can confirm this as well. Flying multiplayer tonight with my brother, he was ahead of me on final to Groom Lake. As he crossed the threshold, he reported significant ground effect/flare which caused him to go around. I continued my approach and experienced the same thing. I could not get the aircraft to land due to the ground effect and just floated down the runway. I did a go around as well and neither of us had any issues with landing the second time. There must have been something added in 2.0 that amplifies the ground effect in certain situations or simulates the heat rising from the ground in the hot desert sun.

[GurbY]

It looks indeed as if there is some turbulence simulated. On final with an empty plane, it's difficult (or, more than in 1.2/1.5) to keep the plane on glideslope or the TVV on the runway. After trimming the plane, setting up the right AoA etc, you notice more movement. Constant adjusting is more needed than in previous versions.

[Ragtop]

Had the same thing on 03L at Nellis AFB.

 

After a goaround I just used less input for my final flare and the jet plopped down nicely. I'm guessing it's just an increased ground effect providing a thicker cushion of air in that final 50-100ft of descent.

[codefox]

It definitely feels like some things changed. When flying under/over objects you can feel a significant change in lift. Additionally, while I was holding short of the runway, a 109 passed low over a friend of mine and myself. We both noticed our planes shook a bit.

 

Awesome to see this stuff modeled, even if it still needs some fine tuning I guess.