AV-8B Harrier Thread

[Rammit]

Keep Calm pal. :joystick:

 

We want the best Harrier simulation possible so all information is welcome. Amalahama provided very useful information to the developers so, what's the problem?

 

We all want the best, sometimes devs get stuff wrong, sometimes the community gets stuff wrong. Only through constructive, and useful debate can we get the module which I personally am most excited for.

[joey45]

Or the stuff isn't finished being programmed.

 

on ma mobile

[WHOGX5]

I'm not at all familiar with the harrier, but I am however familiar with the A-10C and F-16C. Just hear me out on this.

 

I think it looks like the harrier's CCRP (AUTO) is correctly implemented, only that it is used incorrectly in the video. Instead of lining up the velocity vector with the CCRP line like you do in the A-10C and F-16C, it seems like you are supposed to line the CCRP line up with the target point instead of the velocity vector, which seems unintuitive to A-10C and F-16C pilots. Please correct me if I'm wrong. It'd be interesting if Razbam could upload a video trying to drop some dumb bombs in this manner while in a bank. If it works as I suspect it does, the velocity vector should cross the CCRP line right at the release point.

 

With this in mind, take a second look at amalahama's second picture.

 

One discrepancy I found in the video though, is that when the 'target-more-than-90-degrees-off-the-nose' arrow appears, the ASL is supposed to dissapear

 

EDIT: I got a hold of the AV-8B Tactical Manuals! Here are some pictures I found.

Edited August 23, 2017 by WHOGX5

[amalahama]

I think it looks like the harrier's CCRP (AUTO) is correctly implemented, only that it is used incorrectly in the video. Instead of lining up the velocity vector with the CCRP line like you do in the A-10C and F-16C, it seems like you are supposed to line the CCRP line up with the target point instead of the velocity vector, which seems unintuitive to A-10C and F-16C pilots.

 

See Zeus video again. ASL (what you called "CCRP line") doesn't cross the TD, and pilot has to maneuver to make it cross the target, basically similar to CCIP. That's WRONG. IRL it crosses ALWAYS (as long as VVI is wind-corrected) the TD, because the ASL provides the reference to the pilot about where to point his a/c to hit the defined point.

 

Your pictures show perfectly the expected AUTO mode behavior, with no doubt.

 

Regards!

[WHOGX5]

See Zeus video again. ASL (what you called "CCRP line") doesn't cross the TD, and pilot has to maneuver to make it cross the target, basically similar to CCIP. That's WRONG. IRL it crosses ALWAYS (as long as VVI is wind-corrected) the TD, because the ASL provides the reference to the pilot about where to point his a/c to hit the defined point.

 

Your pictures show perfectly the expected AUTO mode behavior, with no doubt.

 

Regards!

 

Isn't that because he is aligning the ASL with the velocity vector instead of the TD?

[BlowTorch]

As I understand it, he is right. The whole purpose of CCRP releases is so you don't need to maintain visual contact with the target. If you need to align the ASL with the TD, that means you are seeing the target (unless the TD displays in the target's vertical when outside hud's fov, which I don't know). That would make it some kind of mix between CCIP and CCRP.

Seeing the image from the manual, it says that "ASL denotes steering to target", then you would have to align the vv/fpm with the ASL and wait for release.

However, in the video the ASL is fixed in the center of the pitch ladder (also different from the manual).

We all know this is WIP, but feedback is always good (as long as it is said corrrectly).

[Zeus67]

Folks, the problem with the ASL in the video was a bug. The function controlling it was not working as intended and that means that there was no lateral displacement and that it was visible at all times.

 

I did not caught it until you told me about the problem.

[Airj247]

I wasn't upset or trying to start a debate, just thought his useful criticism was voiced and could of been put in a nicer way than "THATS SO WRONG" I too want this module to be the best it can be. Just thought it sounded a little snarky.

[amalahama]

Folks, the problem with the ASL in the video was a bug. The function controlling it was not working as intended and that means that there was no lateral displacement and that it was visible at all times.

 

I did not caught it until you told me about the problem.

 

Thanks buddy, very appreciated, the videos I posted earlier showed clearly how a CCRP/Auto attack is being made in RL, in other american platforms. They only differ with the Harrier in details, but the basic mechanics are similar. Just check them out.

 

I wasn't upset or trying to start a debate, just thought his useful criticism was voiced and could of been put in a nicer way than "THATS SO WRONG" I too want this module to be the best it can be. Just thought it sounded a little snarky.

 

Sorry mate, but I'm not a robot, I have feelings, bad days and blue Mondays. And the problem is as usual, when an enthusiast points out any mistake, the reaction is often: "they know better", "they have a pilot, do you think you know more than him?", " I won't believe you until you show me a real video of the very specific item of the classified avionics, the secret original blueprints from McDD and a magic dragon tooth", or "Hey mate, it's WIP, relax...".

 

I would love to see the community more proactive (especially with the Harrier, all the Tactical manuals are available for free, just google them), engaged on providing constructive criticism instead of sit eating doritos and writing OMG SO NICE, SO REALISTIC. It's a win-win for everybody - RAZBAM would be pleased to identify those mistakes earlier when it's easier to track and fix, getting a robust release, while we as community would get the best Harrier possible, which is what we want right?

 

Regards!

Edited August 23, 2017 by amalahama

[Esac_mirmidon]

And you can do all of this simply beeing a little more kind.

 

Both things are compatible. I appreciate also your effort to notice this problem.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Esac_mirmidon

[1stBEAST]

another question.

do we have flight performance wise, a similar jet to a harrier in DCS?

is the HAWK compareable?

[MAD_MIKE]

The cockpit 3D model is terrible.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Ellaborate please.

 

Why?

 

Is not accurated, not realistic, wrong size, colours or shape mistakes, wrong labels?

Edited August 24, 2017 by Esac_mirmidon

[WHOGX5]

New video guys!

Edited August 24, 2017 by WHOGX5

[MAD_MIKE]

Ellaborate please.

 

Why?

 

Is not accurated, not realistic, wrong size, colours or shape mistakes, wrong labels?

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3218126&postcount=571

[Esac_mirmidon]

It has been told before this is a FOV, Focus, angle of view divergence, not a shape or size 3D error.

 

The point of view-angle-focus is not the same in a pic with a camera than inside the DCS Harrier cockpit.

[sze5003]

I don't see anything wrong with the cockpit, looks alright to me. I just hope the labels are pretty readable in VR. I have no trouble seeing them fine in the A-10.

[MAD_MIKE]

:doh:

[Rammit]

I'm inclined to agree, whether it is something wrong with the modelling, or just FOV or focal points, the cockpit seems too wide in some way

[Cunctator]

Comparing it with the drawings of the instrument panel in the Harrier manual Razbams cockpit looks spot on. In the real plane the anti glare shield is bent somewhat inwards so that the cockpit looks narrower on photographs. Also keep in mind that the cockpit photo above is from a British Harrier, thus instrumentation is not the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[amalahama]

Looking at this video (different POV), it seems glareshield is definitively more curvy and less wide in RL

 

 

Regards!

[Esac_mirmidon]

A simple exercise of FOV, angle of view, zoom and focus.

 

 

 

[amalahama]

Here I go again.

 

Pitch ladder. As I said, pitch ladder is wind corrected, it follows VVI all the time, so VVI stays in the middle. It doesn't behave in that way in Razbam Harrier. Attached RL HUD pictures vs last Razbam videos. It should go that way regardless HUD mode.

 

Regards

 

P.S- good video with some attack footage from a AV-8B NA

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by amalahama

[shagrat]

Here I go again.

 

Pitch ladder. As I said, pitch ladder is wind corrected, it follows VVI all the time, so VVI stays in the middle. It doesn't behave in that way in Razbam Harrier. Attached RL HUD pictures vs last Razbam videos. It should go that way regardless HUD mode.

 

Regards

 

P.S- good video with some attack footage from a AV-8B NA

 

 

Yep, that is correct. Seems like bug. But didn't Zeus67 already mentioned he is looking into it?

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3228179&postcount=1738

[amalahama]

He refers to the ASL issue in CCRP/Auto HUD mode, which it seems he will take care of (fingers crossed). This is a different issue that affects all HUD modes, including the most basic NAV mode.

 

Regards!