Professional and affordable TrackIR alternative

[BlueRaven]

This looks and sound very interesting!!!

I already have a DIY tracking device and after spending many hours refining my profile it works quite well, but how can I say no to a really good priced item that seems to be high quality?

I subscribed the thread and will no doubt buy one as soon as it becomes available.

Oh, and I spread the news to all my virtual squadron mates.

Thank you, I am looking forward to trying it!

[98abaile]

If this works as good as TIR, I imagine that this will be a real money spinner for hegykc.

[Bourrinopathe]

I'd buy one, even if I already own a DIY headtracking device and I'm very pleased with it.

A low profile wireless solution with great performances is all I need ;)

 

Your solution can be very popular within several communities (DCS, Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, IL2, BMS, etc.).

If it looks and performs as good as advertised it will probably be very successful!

 

(and yes: ban the wires, please :thumbup:)

[Iceman1987]

Count me in when it is finihsed. I will hold off my IR kit wanted to buy this year. Yours looks cooler, easier and cheaper. Hurry up :P

[aap_flanker]

You have 3 buyers here when its released! (me and 2 friends)

 

I'll keep an eye on it...

[tombeckett2285]

I was considering a Rift but at $39 this looks like a must buy for somebody who's never used any tracking equipment! Look forward to it!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SinusoidDelta]

Maybe I missed something here but I hope you have deep pockets. NP can and will sue you. Regardless of the validity of their patents, they will bleed you to death financially in a Texas District Court. Unless you have a million USD to burn, I would strongly recommend letting someone else fight this battle.

 

I'm not siding with NP in any way. They've monopolized a niche market and won't let go without a fight. With our broken patent system, you are guilty of infringement until proven innocent. Most go bankrupt long before that point.

[Goblin]

Hegykc is in Croatia, not Texas... ;)

Also, several other 3LED clips exist without being sued by NP. This tracker has a new feature of serving as a charger as well as a camera, so it can't be said to be a copy.

And NP does not have patents for their hardware, only the software, AFAIK.

[bushido]

Will your clip be compatible with track ir sensor and software ? I have a track clip and quality of the clip is really bad so it's now half broken, I would happily replace the clip by your device provided it is compatible with the rest of my tir solution.

[doveman]

Hegykc is in Croatia, not Texas... ;)

Also, several other 3LED clips exist without being sued by NP. This tracker has a new feature of serving as a charger as well as a camera, so it can't be said to be a copy.

And NP does not have patents for their hardware, only the software, AFAIK.

One concern is how Opentrack makes itself appear as TrackIR to games and if that infringes any patents. At the moment it's not used that widely so NP may just have decided to ignore it but if this hardware changes that and Hegykc is helping to fund OT that could expose him up to a lawsuit.

[SinusoidDelta]

Hegykc is in Croatia, not Texas... ;)

Also, several other 3LED clips exist without being sued by NP. This tracker has a new feature of serving as a charger as well as a camera, so it can't be said to be a copy.

And NP does not have patents for their hardware, only the software, AFAIK.

 

 

So the new features are irrelevant?

 

I wouldn't advise selling this to anyone in the USA. If they can't go after Hegykc, they'll go after the ones who purchased it. I'm only trying to elucidate the enormous risk based on NP's history. Best of luck.

 

 

From the anti-competition website:

 

"ANY device such as Freetrack that uses the same memory hooks (camera access points)developed by Naturalpoint is a violation of their rights and we will not willfully support such a device.

 

I was a former Trademark and Patent paralegal at one of the biggest corporate lawfirms in Silicon Valley and the former TrackIR Product Manager at Naturalpoint 2004-2005 so arguing with me about violations of NP's rights is useless. NP is in the right to sue anyone who creates a product that is sold or distributed in or to the U.S. or elsewhere that uses their tech. You will find no sympathy with me." - 2010"

[SinusoidDelta]

Saying NaturalPoint invented head tracking is akin to saying they invented motion capture. They made a real time solution available/affordable to the average consumer but commercial head tracking solutions existed before natural point. Like most technology we covet today, it's origins have a military background.

ftp://www.hitl.washington.edu/pub/scivw/publications/IDA-pdf/TRACK.PDF

Don't get me wrong, their contributions towards immersive interaction warrants much respect. I would choose headtracking over current VR headsets for many reasons. They deserve all the credit for making DCS and many other sims/games truly amazing. Unfortunatley it is now 2016. If their business model is to produce the roughly the same technology, year on year, they can't reasonably expect to keep a strangle hold on the market. Whether they deserve to lose money is beside the point. Businesses that evolve, innovate and continuously improve will prevail. Consumer grade depth mapping tech has exploded over the last 5 years. The next solution is already out there waiting to be utilized.

 

But blatantly copying their 3 point IR model, camera and using their code is not the right way to do go about it. It's a way to make a statement and a few dollars. Everyone complains about the price....if you can't figure out how to solder 3 LED's in parallel at the cost of a few dollars, you deserve to pay NaturalPoint's price and you should thank them for it.

Edited January 3, 2016 by SinusoidDelta

[Kuky]

Anyone who thinks Naturalpoint are evil and deserve to lose money are obviously new in the flight sim world. I was there back in the early 2000s when this stuff first came out.

Back then we were as excited about it as much as every is about VR now.

 

Naturalpoint INVENTED head tracking. It was developed to assist handicapped people and then someone pointed out it would be great for flight simming.

 

I am forever indebted and thankful for the years of great flying Naturalpoint provided me through Track IR. I've owned the first model and the latest. They're awesome and were INVENTED by Naturalpoint.

 

I really hope that if any of you ever achieve anything as wonderful as inventing something as good as Track IR you don't get a group of people trying to slag you off and steal/hijack your hard work on the internet.

 

Really disgraceful attitudes towards a great company IMHO.

 

I use TrackIR for many years now, its somewhat expensive but works very good, out of the box with not so much needing to set it up (only need to make your own profile) and that's what I like about it, so I kind of agree with you. If someone can make another (as good as or better) product to give same easy setup, looks etc, why not... but I agree with you, should not give so much bad comments about TrackIR. After all it works good and lasts many years.

[hegykc]

 

I really hope that if any of you ever achieve anything as wonderful as inventing something as good as Track IR you don't get a group of people trying to slag you off and steal/hijack your hard work on the internet.

 

 

Actually it's called progress, and it happend to every invention ever created.

 

I'm only making the wireless mechanical clip, and a filter for ps3 eye camera. How you get your software is up to you. Or should we ban computers because someone might try to run it with pirated windows.

[BrassEm]

:smartass: Whoever pays for the patent first wins. Then sues the F*$# out of everyone else. Just ask Micro$oft about force feedback...

Edited January 3, 2016 by BrassEm

[Auger73]

I'm only making the wireless mechanical clip, and a filter for ps3 eye camera. How you get your software is up to you. Or should we ban computers because someone might try to run it with pirated windows.

 

Sounds like an excellent product for the price!

 

The only downside I can figure out is that the PS3 Eye is not as capable as the Track IR 5 camera. The PS3 Eye @ 120 Hz has a resolution of 320 x 240, vs 640 x 480 for the Track IR 5 @ 120 Hz. It's resolution is actually a little worse than the Track IR 3 Pro, which is 355 x 288 @ 120 Hz.

 

I'm not sure how other aspects of those cameras compare, such as viewing angle, etc.

 

I will be recommending your product to a friend of mine!

[tombeckett2285]

Professional and affordable TrackIR alternative

 

Anyone who thinks Naturalpoint are evil and deserve to lose money...

 

...Naturalpoint INVENTED head tracking.

 

I really hope that if any of you ever achieve anything as wonderful as inventing something as good as Track IR you don't get a group of people trying to slag you off and steal/hijack your hard work on the internet.

 

Really disgraceful attitudes towards a great company IMHO.

 

 

I'm don't necessarily think people mean they are evil, but intense anti-competitive practices put you on a poor footing if we want to judge how moral it is to 'copy' an idea.

 

Let's face it, plenty of companies who were 'first' to a groundbreaking idea such as Karl Benz with the internal combustion engine, Frank Whittle with the jet turbine, Hoover with the Vacuum cleaner, Scotch with sticky tape - they've all had their ideas 'copied' and improved by others yet they (or their companies) are still in business, still doing it by innovating. Naturalpoint can't realistically expect to keep churning out TrackIR version 'X', put the price up ANOTHER $20 and expect people to keep paying because they had the idea first. Especially as I can almost guarantee that their R&D and tooling costs are already well paid off, they could afford to dominate on price with 'competitors', rather than trying to stamp them out of business. Without companies like Replika, where is the incentive for TrackIR to improve, or to keep buying Naturalpoint products. It might just be the kick up the arse they need.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wormeaten]

TrackIR is overrated and overpriced piece of old technology.

 

If you compare it with other legal product on the market for example Oculus Rift. Oculus is twice more expensive but give you 10 times more than TrackIR will ever. So if you compare performance per $ you will see what rip of is TrackIR. That is the point and they are not invented head-tracking, it was already invented before so they used others ideas to create TrackIR and today trying to prevent other to do the same what they do to the others.

 

If they after 5 years or more how hardware price drooping down adopt their price to the realistic they will no need to scare about competition. Today realistic price for trackIR should be around 50$ not more and with that price no one exact no one will discus about it at all because everyone will use trackIR because will be good, reliable and not expensive product.

 

Why it is not like this you have to ask NP because today they more think about it how to prevent competition instead conquer market by realistic price and quality.

 

This is called greed, nothing else.

[hansangb]

TrackIR is overrated and overpriced piece of old technology.

 

If you compare it with other legal product on the market for example Oculus Rift. Oculus is twice more expensive but give you 10 times more than TrackIR will ever. So if you compare performance per $ you will see what rip of is TrackIR. That is the point and they are not invented head-tracking, it was already invented before so they used others ideas to create TrackIR and today trying to prevent other to do the same what they do to the others.

 

If they after 5 years or more how hardware price drooping down adopt their price to the realistic they will no need to scare about competition. Today realistic price for trackIR should be around 50$ not more and with that price no one exact no one will discus about it at all because everyone will use trackIR because will be good, reliable and not expensive product.

 

Why it is not like this you have to ask NP because today they more think about it how to prevent competition instead conquer market by realistic price and quality.

 

This is called greed, nothing else.

 

It's called business. They are not a charity. They are not a non-profit company producing goods for the benefit of DCS users. Do you only charge your employer for basic goods and return the left over money to your company??? If you don't, then is that "greed, nothing else"?

 

They are there to make money. They employ people and pay them wages to make their stuff. It's business, nothing more. If there is a market, and people are willing to pay for it, they are free to charge whatever they want.

 

I don't understand why people can't see that. Now if they stagnate, and they don't continue to increase the technology or value proposition, then they will be defeated in the market. Someone like Hegkyc can create a wireless version, improve the IR performance and can charge whatever he thinks will make him money.

 

That's how capitalism is supposed to work. Charge the market rate and make money. If you charge too much, you'll go out of business. If you produce crap, others will fill the void left by the product.

 

I happily used TIR for quite a while. I was happy to pay it as alternatives did not exist. Not so much after I got Rift.

 

Now, if people think they are going after people and it's not warranted, then the bad publicity may impact their sale. Or it may not. But with social media these days, it's a class action lawsuit of one person. So if enough people complain, NP may change their ways. I'm not familiar with them going after people, so I just don't know - nor do I care, if I'm honest.

Edited January 3, 2016 by hansangb

[spiddx]

Nothing against the idea itself, if it works for that price, hey why not? But I would really consider changing the name. It' just a bit too obvious...

[ineth]

Thanks, I'll take that risk because **** trackir

 

People have paid higher prices for freedom and justice.

 

Bows

[doveman]

Actually it's called progress, and it happend to every invention ever created.

 

I'm only making the wireless mechanical clip, and a filter for ps3 eye camera. How you get your software is up to you. Or should we ban computers because someone might try to run it with pirated windows.

 

Er, what happened to the 120fps IR sensor with custom lens and filter and your promise to throw some funds towards the authors to improve the software?

[hannibal]

my money is going to the oculus rift.. sorry :/ but ill buy the F18 grip!!

[doveman]

I wouldn't advise selling this to anyone in the USA. If they can't go after Hegykc, they'll go after the ones who purchased it. I'm only trying to elucidate the enormous risk based on NP's history. Best of luck.

 

There's absolutely no grounds on which they could "go after" the users/purchasers (and they could only know who they were if hegykc keeps a record of purchasers and hands it over) . Let's not spread FUD.

[hegykc]

Er, what happened to the 120fps IR sensor with custom lens and filter and your promise to throw some funds towards the authors to improve the software?

 

Yes, ps3 (which is 120fps) eye with my own lens and filter. And the first thing I'll do is get hold of the open source developers and see what can be done to make things better, and perfectly legal.