Harrier poll

[KROLSKI]

I chose the British version...... Because we Europeans miss the British mainland visits to our airshows. First time seeing a RAF Harrier doing a hover was mind blowing!!!

So just arrange some summer visits of AV8b's to our airshows..... just see it as an election campaign :)

 

But seriously , all versions are welcome! !

Edited January 6, 2016 by KROLSKI

[Cowboy10uk]

To be fair, I would be happy with either, BUT as a Brit and the fact I worked alongside them in the RAF then it has to be GR7 / 9

 

But as stated above just do whatever one you can do the best.

 

Cowboy10uk

[Harry.R]

Gr.7 please. And two skins, one with a red, yellow and black fin cap - and one with a yellow green and yellow. No need for the others ;)

[Cool Breeze]

The only reason that I voted for the GR9... is because of this!

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2616981&postcount=45

The problem with the AV-8B+ (Radar) is that DCS does not have an AG radar. And the main reason for mounting a radar on the AV-8B+ is to use it for AG operations. So it is a waste of effort to do something that will be incomplete. The moment DCS has a working AG radar, is the moment we implement the AV-8B+ (radar).

 

The main differences between GR7/Gr9 and AV-8B+(NA) is weapons management. The US Marines are more conservative in how the load weapons in the aircraft than the Brits.

I'll take the AV-8B+ when she comes out please! I will also gladly fly the hell out of the GR9 until that day arrives!

Oh, please don't forget the camo helmet covers for the USMC skins! Semper Fi Gents!:thumbup:

[ame]

[/ame]

[Pete_H]

A GR9, because we Brits are feeling neglected in DCS. ;)

[TomOnSteam]

Whichever one is newer/more capable :)

[FoxHoundELite]

If you don't mind me asking, why does that make a difference to you? Do you not buy modules for aircraft that are no longer in service? Does an aircraft no longer being in service make it less fun/rewarding/enjoyable to fly?

 

the answer is yes, that's my opinion :)

[=DECOY=]

A GR9, because we Brits are feeling neglected in DCS. ;)

 

 

 

I'm with you. lol which is why I can't wait for the harrier. the typhoon and tornado

 

we taking over DCS.....wha ha ha

[J3ST3R]

Voted GR7/9. I think with no gun, brings new tactical challenges. But in all honesty, I'd love both as they do have different systems etc and I'd definitely buy both individually.

[J3ST3R]

Has anyone noticed that the poll was for an AV-8B II night attack or a GR7/9... Not an AV-8B II+.

 

As I understand the two USMC versions are very different, I.e the AV8B II + has a radar and the night attack, like the GR version uses FLIR?

[Slipp]

GR9 please! :)

[Random]

Been googling a bit. Apparantly Gr.9 had used Single Mode Brimstone operationally, will do some more digging to see if I can find any more accounts of it...

 

Would be a nice loadout to have! The lack of a gun isnt a huge deal IMO, can always use rockets. Though I wonder why they didn't just keep ADEN pods for them? Can't hae been cost. Already had the things!

[exhausted]

There is a good bit of misinformation here. Primarily, there's a lot of hogwash going around that the Gr9 has a bigger engine than the AV-8BNA. This is false because the same engine was used in both planes, though it was called the F402-RR-408B in the United States, Italy and Spain. It's regulated down to maintain some 24,000 lbs of thrust and the only difference in this engine when used for the Night Attack and Plus versions is the addition of additional cooling tubes from just rear of the firewall.

 

There are issues with the weapons set as well. In real life, British Gr9s didn't carry too many different types of weapons operationally and many of them are highly classified. The AV-8BNA carried, and still carries, a hefty assortment of munitions, many of which would be new to DCS! The AGM-65 variant the Harrier uses is laser guided, and has the capability to be launched with guidance from a JTAC! Additionally, the AV-8B would introduce a new JDAM type, the 1000 pounder. Mk-77s would introduce an anti-personnel weapon on par with Napalm with the AV-8B. The GAU-12 is a highly capable cannon that is a nice stop gap between the GAU-8 30mm and the M61 20mm. The AV-8B has several chaff and flare spots located on 3 different spots on the rear fuselage, which is more than adequate when supported with other suppression assets. The AV-8B carries an external ECM pod as well. Lastly, the LITENING pod provides AV-8B Night Attack Harrier IIs with the same capabilities as the A-10C, which allows for LGB, JDAM, Maverick guidance.

 

From the 1980s to the present, Harrier IIs have operated from US Navy assault ships, which would be a great addition to the DCS world because introducing the Marine Expeditionary Unit concept into the DCS world would add a sorely missed factor in modern conflict, which is the constant projection of American power through the use of its Marines. The MEU is a mostly self-contained unit that consists of thousands of infantrymen, Abrams, LAVs, CH-53s, UH-1s, AH-1s, MV-22s, and AV-8Bs ready to deploy in and support any operation, coastal or inland. No modern scenario with coastline feels anywhere near complete without the MEUs factored in. Or do all these different weapons and airframes sound like too much? No problem, in 2002 US Navy assault ships deployed with over 40 Harrier IIs (mix of Night Attack and +) to act solely as Harrier Carriers.

 

All in all, the AV-8B Night Attack Harrier would have been the best choice for the new module in this poll because of its variety of new weapons, the historical record and ongoing service, and the added dimension of the MEU through aircraft carrying assault ships. The Night Attack Harrier shares many weapon choices with the A-10C, but adds new dimension with additional integration with infantryman. The gun is also a necessary addition, as recent engagements have shown. Lastly, without the Night Attack Harrier, the upcoming Harrier II+ will be incomplete because every USMC unit has a mix of AV-8B Night Attack and AV-8B+ radar birds. You couldn't realistically depict any scenario without them both.

 

It's sad to see that we went with the option to resurrect a retired bird that lacks as many operational weapon loadouts as the Marines' Night Attack version. We are giving up a wide scope of naval operations because there will be no British ship comparable with the US landing assault ships. I'll pass on this module, though I was originally excited to see that DCS had a chance to add so much to the series with the Harrier.

[exhausted]

Has anyone noticed that the poll was for an AV-8B II night attack or a GR7/9... Not an AV-8B II+.

 

As I understand the two USMC versions are very different, I.e the AV8B II + has a radar and the night attack, like the GR version uses FLIR?

 

The nose of the NA has an optical sensor and a laser range finder, but both the + and the NA use FLIR through LITENING pods.

 

The + has extra cooling in the engine which allows the use of the same radar as the F-18s for Harpoon and AMRAAM capability. Generally the + and the NA have the same capabilities today, save for the radar.

[Volator]

I would rather prefer a RAF GR1 to GR3 or RN FRS1 variant. Within the limitations of this poll it doesn't matter to me which of these two RAZBAM is going to choose.

[joey45]

Well your gonna get the AV8 anyway so let them make the GR first.

[f-18hornet]

Well your gonna get the AV8 anyway so let them make the GR first.

 

I agree with that if we get AV-8B Harrier II Plus later.

[whiteladder]

Been googling a bit. Apparantly Gr.9 had used Single Mode Brimstone operationally, will do some more digging to see if I can find any more accounts of it...

 

 

 

I`m pretty sure this is not the case. The only operational use of the single mode Brimstone ( or more accurately dual mode Brimstone in Radar mode) was in Operation Ellamy in Libya and Harriers didn`t take part in this. This so far has been the only use of Brimstone in salvo mode.

 

I think the confusion occurs because the MOD release a video of the first operational use of Brimstone (dual mode) from Afganistan, and described this in error as being fired from a Harrier. In fact it was from a Tornado.

 

A Brimstone salvo is a pretty impressive sight:

 

[ame]

[/ame] Edited January 7, 2016 by whiteladder

[Harry.R]

RAF Harriers were originally land based although they were no strangers to carriers either. The GR.9 had a bigger engine than the GR.7, not the AV8B. You would not lose naval ops with the GR.7 as it operated from through deck cruisers as well as land bases. The GR.7 often flew support for Royal Marines, and there were also a few RM Harrier pilots. The only thing we'll miss out on imho is the cannons. Can live without those though.

[Vampyre]

The nose of the NA has an optical sensor and a laser range finder, but both the + and the NA use FLIR through LITENING pods.

 

The AN/ASB-19 ARBS is an optical target sensor with a laser spot tracking capability similar to the AN/AAS-35 on the A-10. It is used to spot and improve the accuracy of unguided ordnance dropped by the aircraft. It has no laser ranging capability. Currently, ranging capability comes from the use of Litening, Sniper or TIALD targeting pods mounted on the aircraft. The primary weapons of the initial production AV-8B and AV-8B(NA) are the Mk-82 general purpose bombs. The need for accurate delivery of these weapons is why they have ARBS in the first place. The laser spot tracking feature of ARBS assisted in pinpointing hard to see targets from the air and requires an external laser source from a JTAC or another targeting pod equipped aircraft.

 

The FLIR J3ST3R mentioned was probably the AN/AAR-51 navigation FLIR mounted on the top of the nose. It displays wide angled imagery of the path of the aircraft on the HUD for terrain avoidance purposes.

 

RAF Harriers were originally land based although they were no strangers to carriers either. The GR.9 had a bigger engine than the GR.7, not the AV8B. You would not lose naval ops with the GR.7 as it operated from through deck cruisers as well as land bases. The GR.7 often flew support for Royal Marines, and there were also a few RM Harrier pilots. The only thing we'll miss out on imho is the cannons. Can live without those though.

 

Not quite true. When upgraded with the Pegasus Mk-107 (aka the F402-RR-408 in US service) the designations were changed fron Harrier GR7/GR9 to Harrier GR7A/GR9A.

[exhausted]

RAF Harriers were originally land based although they were no strangers to carriers either. The GR.9 had a bigger engine than the GR.7, not the AV8B. You would not lose naval ops with the GR.7 as it operated from through deck cruisers as well as land bases. The GR.7 often flew support for Royal Marines, and there were also a few RM Harrier pilots. The only thing we'll miss out on imho is the cannons. Can live without those though.

 

The problem is the scope of naval operations. The British fleet ops with Harriers were significant for a while, but in their prime they were small in scope compared to USMC MEU operations, which as I said earlier are fully integrated land/sea/air ops with a WIDE scope of vehicles and aircraft.

 

Going for the GR-anything over the Night Attack Harrier is a poor trade in naval ops.

[Frostie]

I don't mind which version they make as long as they add an option for Sea Harrier FA2 DLC. :)

 

 

 

[Holbeach]

C'mon everybody.

 

RAZBAM and I agree. The first Harrier in DCS has to be British.

 

 

 

 

..

Edited January 7, 2016 by Holbeach

[JINX_1391]

And ED must do something about mobile FARPS and temporary runways to go alongside these types - make them spawnable, give this type of aircraft its own niche thats got a battlefield use.

 

This +1

[Harry.R]

The problem is the scope of naval operations. The British fleet ops with Harriers were significant for a while, but in their prime they were small in scope compared to USMC MEU operations, which as I said earlier are fully integrated land/sea/air ops with a WIDE scope of vehicles and aircraft.

 

Going for the GR-anything over the Night Attack Harrier is a poor trade in naval ops.

 

You're quite right. The Brits worked along side the USMC in a few places and had a few of their exchange guys on the squadrons. Perhaps you know them, or were one of them, you seem well informed. Brit were also night attack.

 

Personally I'd like the GR.7 as it's something which did a sterling job in the FRY, Iraq and Afghanistan despite it's differences. Small scope doesn't have to be boring, the Brit Harrier will bring a lot to the party. DCS unfortunately doesn't seem to model the kind of joint ops set up you refer to so perhaps the UK Harrier will be good enough. I'm just glad someone is finally going to bring a fly able Harrier to DCS. At least we won't have to simulate bits dropping off the UK aircraft?

Edited January 8, 2016 by Harry.R
correcting things