Battleships Bismark.

[TwoLate]

Maybe something in lua file of mod missing.

[Shahdoh]

Will these bombers hold a WWII style formation when engaged?

[Stonehouse]

Nice find. Did you say you tried other ships. Or is it just the German nationality

 

Yes tried a variety of ships although didn't try more than one stock ship (used the tanker) also had two different coalitions for targets - Russian for the stock tanker and German for the modded ones. So probably worth a quick test of Russian and modded to see if it is a coalition based issue. Probably should also try some other stock ships including naval ones to try to eliminate the mod aircraft. Have to put the ships on weapons hold though.

 

 

@Shahdoh - no that is something in DCS and requires ED to update the core AI side of things to act according to aircraft era. There are some workarounds that will minimise the issue as much as possible but essentially the bombers will act as a normal modern era bomber acts which is to break and evade.

 

 

<edit ship strike checking>

I believe I have confirmed that ships introduced via a mod have an issue or DCS has an issue with them. Not sure if every ship has the problem. I tried putting in an F18 to strike the Bismarck and gave it a bombs only load out. What I found was that even though the waypoint action specifically listed the unit and group name for the Bismarck what happened was the F18 ignored it and instead sank the tanker (stock ship) sitting about 6 kms away which was the PBY's target. Even telling it to attack the Bismarck or a USS Walker (think that is not Markindel's mod? ie it is not just a problem with his ship mods) via the game master slot is ignored.

 

<edit2> asked the question over here in case anyone can help http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=167846 and specifically http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2803682&postcount=17

 

<edit3> hmmm just downloaded their CVN from that thread. Tried it with a PBY, didn't work as previously. switched to a Su24 with bombs only and it didn't attack the mod CVN. So will wait but it is looking like all ships introduced by mods so far tried have not been legitimate AI shipping strike targets.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Stonehouse

[Shahdoh]

Thought so, I have my own workaround where I script the bombing attack and also have a bomber defense script. So the bombers stay in formation. The bombing run works pretty well, and hanging out inside the formation of bombers is not the best of ideas....

 

So, for now, it doesn't actually drop bombs, nor shoot its weapons, but you wouldn't know it from the results..

[Stonehouse]

As mentioned I downloaded the CVN from the VFA113 thread and gave that a go without any success. Someone replied over in the other thread but I don't think they understood what I was getting at. In the end I got the impression that no-one had tested their CVN as a shipping strike target either.

 

I have a hunch that the issue is related to the ships not being listed in db_units_ships.lua in the scripts folder and their lua not sitting under DCS World\Scripts\Database\navy in the red and blue folders as are the other stock ships and therefore the ships are not 100% installed correctly from DCS's viewpoint right now. It may change with LN and ED bringing in new ships and making the Mods folder 100% usable.

 

So for now it seems like the PBY is fine re shipping strikes (it's the ships that are wrong) so I am parking this one and will go back and look at the fire_pos for the B17 and the guns and alt bombload for the B29. If I get spare time after that I will look at the Zero bombing thing and then perhaps try to get time to play around with the ships.

 

If you can try to confirm my findings TwoLate so there is an independent view on it that would be good.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Shahdoh. Could you be so kind to share with us your Bomber Script that keep they in formation when attacked?

 

Thanks a lot.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Esac_mirmidon

[Shahdoh]

I came up with this to serve as a temporary solution to how the AI reacts. It will come down to what is more important for your mission, do you have to see the bombers dropping their bombs and shooting back at the fighters, or do you want them to stay in formation. With the AI programmed the way they are, you have to choose which works best for you.

 

For this to work, you have to disable the offensive and defensive abilities of the bomber (set up a single aircraft in the group, this is so you can create custom formations with the follow command).

 

 

 

The code for the bombing is really quite simple. I had initially stripped down and reworked the flak script to creat it, but looking at the results, would have been simpler to just do it directly. Had I been more of a coder, would have realised this from the start:

 

Carpet bombing script:

 

--[[
Script: Modified flakv3_2.lua to simulate carpet bombing
Author: Stonehouse of RAAF No457 vSQD - Carpet bombing modifications by Shahdoh
Date: 27/02/2015
Prerequisites: 
*Mistv3.3a or higher must be loaded prior to this script being used.
*The script must be loaded prior to any of the functions being run. ie ensure that Mist and this script is loaded before any carpet bombing is triggered
*Load on a MISSION START trigger using DO SCRIPT FILE 

Update log:


--]]
do
--global constants
cbDmg = 500
--100 strength explosive to represent 250 lb bomb


--[[
Name: cBomb
Parameters: 
_parm1 = the name of the associated trigger zone for the bomber.  Valid values are the name of the zone exactly as it appears in the ME

Example of usage: 

Do
cBomb('Allied_BG1_001')
End


--]]

function cbomb(cbparm1)
	local cbpos = Unit.getByName(cbparm1):getPosition().p  

	--get a random point in the zone 
	local cbnewpoint = mist.getRandPointInCircle(cbpos, 50) 

	--taking into account terrain height generate a vec3 position at the random point in the zone at a random altitude 
	local nvec3 = { 
	x = cbnewpoint.x, 
	y = land.getHeight(cbnewpoint), 
	z = cbnewpoint.y 
	} 

	-- create a single explosion at the position 
	trigger.action.explosion(nvec3, cbDmg)
end


end --script

 

 

It simply tracks the location of the aircraft, once it is in a designated trigger area, gets its position, randomizes it a small bit for bomb floating around due to winds or whatever, and then creates the explosion on the ground. This is setup on each individual bomber so that if that bomber is destroyed or diverted even, it wont be in the trigger area and thus, no "bombs" dropped. Only creates explosions for the bomber that is in the zone. 1 bomber, 1 series of explosions, 30 bombers, 30 sets of explosions, roughly, but directly linked, to the location of those bombers.

 

If you are concerned about the number of bombs per bomber, adjust the size of your trigger area with the airspeed you have the bombers set to, so that the number of seconds inside the trigger area matches the loadout of the bomber. Crude, yes but it works.

 

For the bombers defense, I again reworked the flak script so that a moving trigger area follows the bomber, currently set at 300m. When the enemy a/c gets inside that zone, it randomizes a chance to hit, currently set to 2.5%(checks on the standard timing of 1 per second). When it does, creates a minimized flak explosion in a random location around the fighter, intended to only pepper the fighter with damage. When the fighter gets within 100m, the chance goes up to 4%. I used the ability to allow for multiple guns per bomber, just like the number of flak guns on the ground, but in testing, even just 1 at that low percent chance to hit is quite effective.

 

This bubble is around each and every bomber, thus have the bombers in a good formation, and they will protect each other, get one separated and it becomes easier prey.

 

Bomber Defense script:

 

do
--global constants
--1 strength explosive to represent 50 cal guns hitting target
_BDDmg = .75
_maxRng = 300 --max effective range is 500m

--[[
Name: bdGuns
Parameters:
_bdparm1 = the side to be attacked by the bombers defensive guns. Valid values are red or blue 
_bdparm2 = the name of the associated moving unit being defended by the guns. Valid values are the name of the unit exactly as it appears in the ME
_bdparm3 = number of guns between 1 and 4 (that can be directed to any 1 position around the aircraft)

Example of usage: 

Do
bdGuns('blue','Unit #01',2)
End


--]]
function bdGuns(_bdparm1, _bdparm2, _bdparm3)

	--parameters 
	local _bdside = _bdparm1-- eg 'blue'
	local _bdUnit = _bdparm2 -- eg 'Unit #01'
	local _bdnumofguns = _bdparm3 -- eg integer value like 2 or 3

	-- init table
	local bdsidePlanes = {}


	--set number of guns to 1 if less than zero passed in.
	if ((_bdnumofguns < 1) or (_bdnumofguns == nil)) then 
		_bdnumofguns = 1 
	end

	--set number of guns to 4 if more than 4 passed in. Forcing max of 4 guns per trigger action
	if _bdnumofguns > 4 then 
		_bdnumofguns = 4 
	end

	-- get units for side 
	if _bdside == 'red' then 
		bdsidePlanes = mist.makeUnitTable({'[red][plane]','[red][helicopters]'}) 
	else
		bdsidePlanes = mist.makeUnitTable({'[blue][plane]','[blue][helicopters]'}) 
	end --get side

	-- set up table entry for defense zone
	local _BDunits = {}
	_BDunits[1] = _bdUnit

	-- get the target units in the defense zone
	local bdinZoneUnits = mist.getUnitsInMovingZones(bdsidePlanes, _BDunits, _maxRng, 'sphere') 
	local bdinZoneUnitsClose = mist.getUnitsInMovingZones(bdsidePlanes, _BDunits, 100, 'sphere') 


	-- for each target
		if (#bdinZoneUnits > 0) then
			for x = 1, _bdnumofguns do
			local hitchance = mist.random(1,1000)
--        trigger.action.outText('Hitchance: '..hitchance..' from: '.._bdUnit, 5)
			
				if (#bdinZoneUnitsClose > 0) and hitchance < 40 or hitchance < 25 then
			
		--get target aircraft
				local c = mist.random(1,#bdinZoneUnits)
		-- get current position 
				local _bdtargetpos = bdinZoneUnits[c]:getPosition().p
				local bdnewpoint = mist.getRandPointInCircle(_bdtargetpos, 7, 3) 
				local bdvec3 = { 
				x = bdnewpoint.x, 
				y = _bdtargetpos.y, 
				z = bdnewpoint.y 
				} 
		-- explode the shell, strength of attack between 1 and max damage (throwing some luck into the mix)
					trigger.action.explosion(bdvec3, _BDDmg)
				end	
			end --for loop
		end --units exist in zone
end --bdGuns

end --script

 

 

These both set up in the Mission editor like setting up the flak areas, examples are in the code remarks.

 

Couple recent videos of this in action:

and the stress test of 24 B17s (not recommended just yet, ended up crashing DCS, but looks cool)

https://www.twitch.tv/dcs_shahdoh/v/71026460

 

 

Will be using these in my WWII campaign idea: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=167940

 

/Salute

[TwoLate]

As mentioned I downloaded the CVN from the VFA113 thread and gave that a go without any success. Someone replied over in the other thread but I don't think they understood what I was getting at. In the end I got the impression that no-one had tested their CVN as a shipping strike target either.

 

I have a hunch that the issue is related to the ships not being listed in db_units_ships.lua in the scripts folder and their lua not sitting under DCS World\Scripts\Database\navy in the red and blue folders as are the other stock ships and therefore the ships are not 100% installed correctly from DCS's viewpoint right now. It may change with LN and ED bringing in new ships and making the Mods folder 100% usable.

 

So for now it seems like the PBY is fine re shipping strikes (it's the ships that are wrong) so I am parking this one and will go back and look at the fire_pos for the B17 and the guns and alt bombload for the B29. If I get spare time after that I will look at the Zero bombing thing and then perhaps try to get time to play around with the ships.

 

If you can try to confirm my findings TwoLate so there is an independent view on it that would be good.

 

Will do should be done by Wednesday eve. Have squad practice tonight with Shahdoh and his new campaign.

I will look into the missions and lua's and what you said to find the difference between mod and stock ships. Also will test in player and client mode.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Thanks Shahdoh.

 

I´ve already tried the NOTHING option as task for bombers to not evade when attacked and it works but then they dont shoot to defend themselves against fighters.

 

I thought you have found a script that allow bombers to fire and also to stay in formation.

 

Thanks anyway.

[Shahdoh]

Yeah, you have to chose for now unfortunately. It (bomber defense script) really does work quite well, some say to well, but if you read about the tactics used, they had to minimize their time closing on the bombers or they would get chewed to pieces. Get in, get some hits in just a few seconds, get away and rinse repeat. The Bomber defense script simulates that pretty accurately IMHO, you just don't get to "see" them fire at you.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Shahdoh

[Markindel]

Guys, I have no words! You are great!

[AG-51_Razor]

As mentioned I downloaded the CVN from the VFA113 thread and gave that a go without any success. Someone replied over in the other thread but I don't think they understood what I was getting at. In the end I got the impression that no-one had tested their CVN as a shipping strike target either.

 

 

I think that was me Stonehouse. I will go back and re-structure the mission since there were several other ships in company with the Bush. I'll take them out and see if the Bear attacks the Bush by itself.

[TwoLate]

Thanks Razor. One thought our Commander Bulldog mention that it could be once AI is being fired on by ship or plane the AI no longer does the anti ship task. Kinda like the B-17 thing. Going to do some testing.

[dooom]

this is by far my favorite thread at DCS right now... its a hidden gold mine of goodies from Markindel, Stonehouse and Shadoh.

 

Shadoh - i love what you are doing here and would suggest you copy your post #282 over to the mission builders forum to save it for posterity... I'm looking forward to experiencing your bomber defense script soon. THanks so much for posting your script work.

[TwoLate]

Stonehouse found something interesting. Had a Stock cargo ship behind the Bismark. The AI under fire from the Bismark flew over the Bismark and dropped a pair of bombs on the cargo ship like the Bismark was not there. This was using Anti-Ship Strike. Could be what you said about Mod Ships. I even tried to add Bismark to ship database and game would crash.

[Veteran66]

Dora vs B17

 

i like it :)

[lennycutler]

I want to thank you for your amazing work on these modules.

 

I have brought your B-17 into some test missions, and it successfully bombs the Bismark.

 

I have tried to use your PBY Catalina, but for some reason, it won't show up as an available aircraft under US Aircraft....I checked the install files, I am using JSGME, everything looks right, but still not there...no matter what mission type I try to use it in. Any suggestions?...perhaps I don't have the latest version?

[Forza42]

I want to thank you for your amazing work on these modules.

 

I have brought your B-17 into some test missions, and it successfully bombs the Bismark.

 

I have tried to use your PBY Catalina, but for some reason, it won't show up as an available aircraft under US Aircraft....I checked the install files, I am using JSGME, everything looks right, but still not there...no matter what mission type I try to use it in. Any suggestions?...perhaps I don't have the latest version?

 

i think it s because of the ''task'' you have setup for the plane. If you choose CAP, the Catalyna cant do CAP, so it will not appears.

I used the Catalyna with USA, it s working on my side

[TwoLate]

I want to thank you for your amazing work on these modules.

 

I have brought your B-17 into some test missions, and it successfully bombs the Bismark.

 

I have tried to use your PBY Catalina, but for some reason, it won't show up as an available aircraft under US Aircraft....I checked the install files, I am using JSGME, everything looks right, but still not there...no matter what mission type I try to use it in. Any suggestions?...perhaps I don't have the latest version?

How did you get the B-17 to bomb the Bismark? I tried everything in advance options and cant get to work.

[lennycutler]

See mission file attached

 

See attached bombing mission.....Bf 109s try to intercept the B-17.

Try to Save the Bismark.miz

[lennycutler]

Regarding the Catalina,....exactly where in the file structure are the files supposed to go....what I have so far is under /Mods directory.

[TwoLate]

Regarding the Catalina,....exactly where in the file structure are the files supposed to go....what I have so far is under /Mods directory.

Thanks for the mission will look at it. For the Cat File structure mine is

MODS/tech/PBY5Catalina.

looked at your mission and the Bismark is stationary. Yes you can bomb anything stationary the trick is bombing it moving try having tha Battleship moving.

Edited June 7, 2016 by TwoLate

[Stonehouse]

@TwoLate, yes to the behaviour of ignoring the mod ship in preference to a stock one. Saw an F18 that was tasked with a shipping strike on the Bismarck turn away 30-40deg to instead attack a stock tanker elyna even though it wasn't the allocated target.

 

@Shahdoh, there is a bombing script floating around that has a lot of features that may interest you. If you look through the B29 thread you'll find it or if you can't I will dig it out when I get home and post it up.

<edit> link to bombing script. Note the B29 package at the link is out of date. Fire objects there too. http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2418128&postcount=142

 

In summary:

The issue we are seeing is having an aircraft with a role of anti shipping (or whatever it says unit the group name in the editor I am at work right now) and then given a waypoint action of attack ship where the target is a mod ship then the AI will not execute the attack and will either ignore the allocated target or instead hit a stock DCS ship if one is present. Using ground attack and bomb on a point could be used to attack a stationary ship but it isn't an actual shipping strike per se and bomb on point isn't too great for a moving ship. Issue seems to be a bombs only one as I believe Razor has managed to get a AI Tu95 to use it's anti shipping missile on the mod CVN George Bush.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Stonehouse

[AG-51_Razor]

Stonehouse, I have not yet had the time to go into the mission and remove the stock ships from the carrier group to see if the Bush was in fact the intended target. I will do that this evening without fail and post the results here. I have several ships in the carrier battle group - the Cole, Spruance and Patuxent are all mods along with the G W Bush - but there was also the Perry and another who's name I can't recall. Anyway, the Bear launched its anti-ship missiles from quite a distance and they were all shot down by defenses from the screen.

[Markindel]

a low-level flight over the Japanese aircraft carrier Shinano in WIP

 

Guys, i'm really demoralized. :helpsmilie::helpsmilie:

I can not do the collision model of the P38, are five days that I try.

I need help.

You know a few users who can help me?