Vortex accident video.

[Martillo1]

What happened here?

 

[mattebubben]

What happened here?

 

To rapid Decent rate that led to a Vortex ring state that caused a loss of lift thus resulting in the helicopter crashing to the ground at to high of a speed for a safe touchdown.

 

Most likely it was down to pilot error.

Edited March 8, 2016 by mattebubben

[razo+r]

As a non-heli-professional, i can only say that the frame was too weak to land that hard...

[Martillo1]

A double rotor helicopter is less prone to VRS?

[1.JaVA_Platypus]

He started going backwards. Always a tricky thing to do in any helicopter. Was the big flag still hanging from the chopper? Or was it disconnected? You can escape a VRS, just pray you have enough altitude. This one was really close to the ground to begin with.

[Askerov24]

Was the big flag still hanging from the chopper? Or was it disconnected?

 

It was disconnected

[JackFrost]

A double rotor helicopter is less prone to VRS?

 

no

[Sporg]

To rapid Decent rate that led to a Vortex ring state that caused a loss of lift thus resulting in the helicopter crashing to the ground at to high of a speed for a safe touchdown.

 

Most likely it was down to pilot error.

Agree.

It looked like a difficult/silly maneuver to perform at that height:

Slightly fast backwards and then trying to stop and dive/descend at the same time.

 

Sadly the pilot and one more lost their lives in the accident, according to the comment on the video. :(

[Martillo1]

Indeed tragic. I myself I have suffered VRS while playing the Mi-8 module, but never thought to see a video of it, that's why I posted it.

[Askerov24]

Indeed tragic. I myself I have suffered VRS while playing the Mi-8 module, but never thought to see a video of it, that's why I posted it.

 

Yeap, pretty much rare thing to see on YouTube

[gospadin]

Yeap, pretty much rare thing to see on YouTube

 

That crash in Hawaii two weeks ago was another obvious VRS case too. =\

[Askerov24]

That crash in Hawaii two weeks ago was another obvious VRS case too. =\

 

:\ which one?

[mattebubben]

:\ which one?

 

Im guessing this is the one?

 

[ame=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lfo2dy8P44]

[/ame]

 

But if that was the video he meant i dont think it was a VRS case =P.

 

Look at the Tail rotor.

 

Something happens to it right before the helo goes out of control.

Edited March 9, 2016 by mattebubben

[AlphaOneSix]

That crash in Hawaii two weeks ago was another obvious VRS case too. =\

 

No it wasn't. It doesn't even LOOK like VRS.

 

The motion of the tail rotor in the video is not very helpful because of the frame rate of the camera taking the video, although it does indicate a change in rotor speed.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

That crash is really weird. I'd have thought some sort of mechanical failure rather than VRS, because there needs to be an established descent rate for it to develop. In this case, it just sort of, well drops out of the sky :cry:

 

//edit: sniped. Good catch on the tail rotor. I'm guessing the tail rotor failed, so the pilot decided to autorotate it into the water to stop it spinning?

Edited March 9, 2016 by Flamin_Squirrel

[zaelu]

I am no expert but it seemed the pilot tried to recover from VRS induced while going backwards by trying to move forward. Maybe was a better option to accelerate backwards movement instead of trying to stop then move forward while VRS was developing and such low height was available? It seems it complicated the problem.

 

Also, another two things. It happens in DCS also, trying to flare the crash you only get lag in response and the helicopter jumps off the ground after a survivable by the looks impact only to break the tail boom and create a much more complicated scenario.

 

And why the fuel in the tanks wasn't instantly made inert by the substances that are (usually I think) made to do that?

 

 

Watching a helicopter crash is always a sad thing. Because it's a bit slower than plane crashes and you can see it coming for much more longer time I think.

Edited March 9, 2016 by zaelu

[OldE24]

The Hawii crash was NOT vortex ring state, the pilot declared an emergency.

 

http://khon2.com/2016/02/19/helicopter-pilot-identified-as-air-traffic-recording-reveals-moments-before-crash-2/

 

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20160218X71040&key=1

 

The pilot reported to the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigator-in-charge, that while in cruise flight over Ford Island, he felt a vibration followed by a grinding noise. Shortly after, the pilot heard a loud bang, scanned the instrument panel and saw that the engine instruments indicated the engine was still running, however, rotor rpm decreasing. The pilot initiated an auto rotation to a grassy area near Contemplation Circle at the World War II Valor in the Pacific National Monument. As the pilot neared his intended landing area, he observed multiple people within the area. The pilot stated he initiated a left pedal turn, attempting to land close to the shoreline. Subsequently, the helicopter descended rapidly into the water, about 20 feet from the shoreline.

 

 

 

The MI8 on the other hand i cant help but think A. he should have noised down to get forward airspeed...and B he Obviously had collective up and when it hit the ground and bounced, would be interesting to know if he could of lowered the collective fast enough to stop that bounce that caused all the dammage.

[ebabil]

2 things that i don't understand are, first, why the people in surrounding area were that careless. for example 02:10, they try to raise a beach umberalla right after the accident.

 

second, why the cameraman used a toast machine as a camera

 

 

i had experienced lots of times vrs with mi-8 in dcs, most of them led to fatal crashes. sorry for the crew

[Askerov24]

Im guessing this is the one?

 

 

But if that was the video he meant i dont think it was a VRS case =P.

 

Look at the Tail rotor.

 

Something happens to it right before the helo goes out of control.

 

Oh, this one, well it doesn't look like VRS, IMHO

[gospadin]

No it wasn't. It doesn't even LOOK like VRS.

 

The motion of the tail rotor in the video is not very helpful because of the frame rate of the camera taking the video, although it does indicate a change in rotor speed.

 

Yea. Could just be that as the pilot altered collective, the engine output was stressed which slowed the tail rotor.

 

Either way, assumed it was VRS, if not, sorry everyone.

[EagleEye]

I am no expert but it seemed the pilot tried to recover from VRS induced while going backwards by trying to move forward. Maybe was a better option to accelerate backwards movement instead of trying to stop then move forward while VRS was developing and such low height was available? It seems it complicated the problem.

 

Also, another two things. It happens in DCS also, trying to flare the crash you only get lag in response and the helicopter jumps off the ground after a survivable by the looks impact only to break the tail boom and create a much more complicated scenario.

 

And why the fuel in the tanks wasn't instantly made inert by the substances that are (usually I think) made to do that?

You mean the Mi video, right? I guess he moved forward just to come to a hold. I can not see any reaction to the developing VRS. The pilot may not be aware of the developing VRS? Don`t get me wrong here though, just wondering and as a hobby pilot myself, I always try to learn something from such accidents. Decision must be made so quick when flying.

 

As for the fuel burning, don`t think that private companys have such fuel tanks the military is using.

Edited March 10, 2016 by EagleEye

[Yo-Yo]

What happened here?

 

 

The video contains some interesting details. The helicopter entered into VRS as the pilot decelerated it without applying additional collective input as the rotor had got axial airflow.

 

Probably (regarding the cone behaviour) he tried to get out from VRS using cyclic control but it was not successful. It seems to me that he did not reduce rotor pitch to make vortex weaker.

 

As the helicopter hit the ground it could not be fatal if the pilot kick the collective down after or just before the touchdown. But he did not do it, the vortex ring dissipated as the helicopter stopped failing, and it ballooned again... so, the second hit was deadly punching the fuel tanks - very usual for Mi-8 kind of accident.

[Martillo1]

The Mi-8 is a tricky machine to fly. Ka-50 is much easier.

 

In DCS I mean.

[zaelu]

@EagleEye Yes about Mi-8 accident.

 

I didn't wanted to assume that the pilots did not observed the helicopter had fallen quite a few meters in VRS. That's why I assumed that they tried wrongly to exit from VRS by pushing forward the cyclic (probably standard in most situations because most of the time the helicopter moves forward and enters VRS while stopping and this maneuver would apply very well for lateral translations as it will pull the helicopter out of the "bad column of air" just the same). The helicopter was stopping the backwards translation by tilting forward and that made it to enter VRS and it seemed it lingered too much there then while falling, it can be seen as wobbling or balancing undecided as it had been pushed backwards again but too late and they knew it so they prepared for impact. Probably both pulled the collective and at least one forgot to slam it down immediately or just before the impact.

 

Also... it seems the fuel tank was punctured by the failure o the left gear assembly, before the flames it can be seen some white substance being sprayed around the helicopter. It's possible the fire was unavoidable. But maybe without the rebound from ground maybe the fuel would have stayed in the behind and not spray all.

[_Randolph93]

I'm not a pilot but why he didn't pushed the stick forward?I mean isn't standing still the worst thing you can do in VRS situation?