Labels and spotting

[Damocles]

First and foremost it would be nice if there was an official, easy, way to adjust labels. Dot, dot + range, dot + range + type, etc etc. choice.

 

Secondly it would be really nice if labels were occluded by aircraft structure rather than omnipresent.

 

Thirdly ( was flying 1.5 ). Spotting without labels is obviously Vhard, just as bad is trying to get, identification or manoevering que's, even from close range. When testing, my opponent really needed to be within 200 meters for visual ID and 100 meters for good, worthwhile, manoevering que's. Although general features and aspect can be gleaned, at 200 meters the image is still to vague to offer subtle, but important information. Ironically, while the aircraft Sprite is often a blurry, indistinct mess, the label, which is relatively complex, is always comparitevly clear. Maybe something could be done to use the way labels are displayed to make other aircraft sharper and more distinct at ranges outside anything but very close range ?

[BRAVO_16]

First and foremost it would be nice if there was an official, easy, way to adjust labels. Dot, dot + range, dot + range + type, etc etc. choice.

 

I've been using my own modified version of the labels.lua file for a long time. Honestly, I'm lost without it and I find it super frustrating otherwise. If you want, I can post a copy of what my entries look like, and then you can tailor it to your preference.

[tom1502]

I find the labels are only any help with finding where something is. The text is far too small to ever know what it is that I am shooting at, also they overlap so they just turn into a blob and obscure the target.

 

I find the labels to be a pain in DCS, but I also find spotting targets to be practically impossible...so I have to live with them.

[Krupi]

To be honest spotting on a normal monitor is already very hard in DCS, I hope they will work on it for both VR and normal monitors

[chlywly]

I've been using my own modified version of the labels.lua file for a long time. Honestly, I'm lost without it and I find it super frustrating otherwise. If you want, I can post a copy of what my entries look like, and then you can tailor it to your preference.

 

Please!

[BRAVO_16]

Here is a copy of the text inside my labels.lua file-

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

-- Label parameters

-- Copyright © 2004, Eagle Dynamics.

 

AirOn = true

GroundOn = true

NavyOn = true

WeaponOn = true

 

-- Label max distance depends on graphics visibility range option value

-- For low �E40000.0 m

-- For medium �E50000.0 m

-- For high �E80000.0 m

 

---------------------------------

-- Label text format symbols

-- %N - name of object

-- %D - distance to object

-- %P - pilot name

-- %n - new line

-- %% - symbol '%'

-- %x, where x is not NDPn% - symbol 'x'

-- %C - extended info for vehicle's and ship's weapon systems

------------------------------------------

-- Example

-- labelFormat[5000] = "Name: %N%nDistance: %D%n Pilot: %P"

-- up to 5km label is:

-- Name: Su-33

-- Distance: 30km

-- Pilot: Pilot1

 

 

 

AirFormat = {}

AirFormat[5000] = "."

AirFormat[15000] = "."

AirFormat[20000] = "%N%n%D"

 

GroundFormat = {}

GroundFormat[5000] = "%N%n%"

GroundFormat[10000] = "."

GroundFormat[15000] = "."

 

NavyFormat = {}

NavyFormat[5000] = "%N%n%"

NavyFormat[10000] = "."

NavyFormat[15000] = "."

 

WeaponFormat = {}

WeaponFormat[5000] = "%N%n%"

WeaponFormat[7000] = "."

 

-- Colors in {red, green, blue} format, volume from 0 up to 255

 

ColorAliesSide = {255, 0, 0}

ColorEnemiesSide = {0, 0, 255}

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Looking at AirFormat >>>

This sets what label information you see regarding friendly/enemy aircraft. In my configuration you'll see that beyond the 20000 distance, no label information is displayed for friendly/enemy aircraft. I like it this way because it still forces me to use my aircraft radar to identify contacts, alongside the AWACS Request Picture, to create a mental picture of the enemy movements.

Once the friendly/enemy aircraft comes within that 20000 distance, I see the 'name of object' as well as the 'distance to object'. Once the friendly/enemy comes within 15000 distance, the object label changes to a dot(.) The dot really helps me to spot the enemy in a close encounter, as I don't have a headtracker and I use the hatswitch on the joystick to look around.

 

GroundFormat and NavyFormat>>>

The same principles apply. I mostly see dots for ground units/boats, unless I'm really high then no label information is displayed. Only when I get really close I get to see 'object name' and 'distance to object', instead of a dot.

 

WeaponFormat >>>

Missiles show label information in the form of a dot(.) when the distance is 7000 or less. Once the distance is 5000 I get to see the 'object name'. Beyond 7000 I don't see any label information.

So here is what happens when I fly the F-15 for instance. I get the que that the enemy has launched a missile at me. 99% of the time I don't see the smoke trail of the missile. Once that missile gets within 7000 distance of me, I see a dot. Because of the speed of missiles, the label information changes very quickly from a dot(.) to the 'object name'. So I know, by the time I see the missile name, it's very close and closing fast, and probably already too late.

 

Lastly, the color settings in the last two lines is just to adjust the label text color for either friendly units or enemy units. The way it's set now, is the default Blue text for friendly and Red text for enemy.

 

Overall I find the dot(.) a lot less intrusive and in most cases it just serves as a visual que. I personally think that labels are very useful due to the limitations within the game to visually identify other objects. I hope this helps other players.

[wormeaten]

Even War Thunder don't have labels in FRB.

 

We are talking about VR as ultimate immersion. Where is immersion with labels?

[Krupi]

Even War Thunder don't have labels in FRB.

 

We are talking about VR as ultimate immersion. Where is immersion with labels?

 

+1

[Decibel dB]

Even War Thunder don't have labels in FRB.

 

I agree but you can spot and keep track of enemy on War Thunder not with DCS unfortunately. For sure labels are not the way to go though.

[BRAVO_16]

I'm all for immersion, but for many of us there are certain constraints that only allows for immersion up to a point. I cannot visually identify distant objects due to the monitor I play on. I don't have a headtracker to keep visual of an object while flying. I use the hatswitch on my joystick to look around, and even though it works to some degree, it falls way short of a proper headtracking setup. I also don't have the luxury of a VR headset. To counter these constraints, I use modified labels.

[Markeebo]

I'm all for immersion, but for many of us there are certain constraints that only allows for immersion up to a point. I cannot visually identify distant objects due to the monitor I play on. I don't have a headtracker to keep visual of an object while flying. I use the hatswitch on my joystick to look around, and even though it works to some degree, it falls way short of a proper headtracking setup. I also don't have the luxury of a VR headset. To counter these constraints, I use modified labels.

 

 

 

You're wasting your breath defending your choice. The "purists" will always look down their collective noses at the concept.

[Shogun0]

You're wasting your breath defending your choice. The "purists" will always look down their collective noses at the concept.

 

At the end of the day, I'm all for everyone to play DCS the way that works for them.

 

If you play with labels, cool. If you play with enlarged models, cool. If you want the full sim experience and want to follow 100% procedures when flying, cool.

 

DCS is so adaptable and I love that it can be accessible to those who want to just hit "Go!" and their off... and to the hardcore simulator fan. I feel most of us are somewhere in the middle depending on what we want out of the game. And it can provide that for us.

[Damocles]

Even War Thunder don't have labels in FRB.

 

We are talking about VR as ultimate immersion. Where is immersion with labels?

 

Maybe, rather ironically, reality. Much as we accept we can't jump into a real aircraft to play at being a combat pilot we also have to accept the limitations of the tools that we do use. At present a very obvious limitation with this generation of HMD's is poor resolution. A lot of aspects of VR are great, really great, but low resolution is very limiting at the moment.

For this generation, and possibly the next, of VR HMD's, labels are probably a necessary evil, whether you like them or not. Maybe not for every scenario but certainly many. I wonder how many, who profess a dislike of labels are talking from, or have experienced, DCS using purely VR. My experience suggests that anything outside of 0.3 nm very quickly becomes nothing more than a greasy smudge.

 

My point, anyway, is less about labels, for labels sake, but more because while the target aircraft is often barely visible or an indistinct smudge the label is, providing several aren't overlapping, perfectly clear and legible, despite using several characters to convey Object information and regardless of distance away. I also never question that the label is at the distance, or position in the 3D environment, it says it is. What I really wondered is if there is some way of making other 3D objects, such as other aircraft, as distinct as the labels, instead of a greasy smudge, without the need for labels, possibly using the same techniques as that employed by the labels.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Damocles

[whitav8]

Just a small comment on the issue of label use. I set them so there is just a "+" showing unless the target is far away but I also have the enable/disable labels command as one of my voice commands and turn them on just briefly and then turn them off. I do think that the newest fighter aircraft will have HUDs and HMDs in them that also point out targets plus just like my car and phone, they will have voice command (which feels like I have a RIO/GIB since he/she echos my voice commands).

 

Dave

[Chivas]

Personally I don't like icons, as they kill immersion, but they are a necessary evil, as I no longer have the vision I had in my twenties. I haven't tried it yet, but like DCS compromise option to increase the size of the distant aircraft, which is far more immersive than large colored Icons. Offline I like the option to be able to momentarily enable Icons in game. Online I wingup with pilots that can see distant aircraft.

 

Although having Icons isn't a huge issue for most flight simmers, as over ninety percent of flight simmers use them anyway. Just check out how many people are in the Icon servers as opposed to non Icon servers. Atleast that was the case in the very popular IL-2 1946 series servers.

[Damocles]

I'm obviously not making myself very clear.

 

I would far prefer to play without icons, but without using modern, radar equipped, aircraft it's probably not feasible at the moment.

 

What I am trying to get at though is that regardless of range the labels are legible, while the actual aircraft itself may only be an indistinct smudge. I've also never thought that the label is hovering somewhere, mid distance, half way in between, so that I can read it, it always seems to be, spatially, where I would expect it to be. Would it be possible to use the same methodology for the aircraft so that we can do away with the labels altogether, if wanted ?

[DerekSpeare]

The type of labels I'd like to see are ones that have font size grow and shrink in proportion to the distance you are from that object being labelled.

 

For example: When you're far away from an object, its label is really small. When you get close to it, say within a mile or so, the label is the normal size. I saw a labeling system like this years ago, but I cannot remember where.

 

It would also be really good to have brevity labels where only the object type and distance to it are shown.

 

For Example: Instead of "SAM xxx Patriot bla bla bla 5.6 miles", I'd like "AG 5.6". This way labels don't clutter up matters.

 

I use VR and like labels. I don't run them all the time, but they are good to have. The labels in DCS could be more efficient from a user's point of view.

[Ghostrider142]

Since the labels format is slightly different in 2.0, who has a working labels setup that works like this one in 1.5?

 

Just want to make sure I'm about to do this correctly.

 

Here is a copy of the text inside my labels.lua file-

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

-- Label parameters

-- Copyright © 2004, Eagle Dynamics.

 

AirOn = true

GroundOn = true

NavyOn = true

WeaponOn = true

 

-- Label max distance depends on graphics visibility range option value

-- For low �E40000.0 m

-- For medium �E50000.0 m

-- For high �E80000.0 m

 

---------------------------------

-- Label text format symbols

-- %N - name of object

-- %D - distance to object

-- %P - pilot name

-- %n - new line

-- %% - symbol '%'

-- %x, where x is not NDPn% - symbol 'x'

-- %C - extended info for vehicle's and ship's weapon systems

------------------------------------------

-- Example

-- labelFormat[5000] = "Name: %N%nDistance: %D%n Pilot: %P"

-- up to 5km label is:

-- Name: Su-33

-- Distance: 30km

-- Pilot: Pilot1

 

 

 

AirFormat = {}

AirFormat[5000] = "."

AirFormat[15000] = "."

AirFormat[20000] = "%N%n%D"

 

GroundFormat = {}

GroundFormat[5000] = "%N%n%"

GroundFormat[10000] = "."

GroundFormat[15000] = "."

 

NavyFormat = {}

NavyFormat[5000] = "%N%n%"

NavyFormat[10000] = "."

NavyFormat[15000] = "."

 

WeaponFormat = {}

WeaponFormat[5000] = "%N%n%"

WeaponFormat[7000] = "."

 

-- Colors in {red, green, blue} format, volume from 0 up to 255

 

ColorAliesSide = {255, 0, 0}

ColorEnemiesSide = {0, 0, 255}

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

 

Here is what is in 2.0

 

AirFormat = {

--[distance] = {format, alignment, color_blending_k, opacity, shift_in_pixels_x, shift_in_pixels_y}

[500] = EMPTY,

[2000] = {aircraft_symbol_near..NAME_DISTANCE_PLAYER , "LeftBottom" ,0.75 , 0.7 , -3 , 0},

[5000] = {aircraft_symbol_near..NAME_DISTANCE , "LeftBottom" ,0.75 , 0.5 , -3 , 0},

[15000] = {aircraft_symbol_far ..DISTANCE , "LeftBottom" ,0.25 , 0.25 , -3 , 0},

[20000] = dot_symbol(0,0.1),

}

 

GroundFormat = {

--[distance] = {format , alignment, color_blending_k, opacity, shift_in_pixels_x, shift_in_pixels_y}

[10] = EMPTY,

[5000] = {ground_symbol_near..NAME_DISTANCE_PLAYER ,"LeftBottom" ,0.75 , 0.7 , -3 , 0},

[10000] = {ground_symbol_far..NAME_DISTANCE ,"LeftBottom" ,0.75 , 0.5 , -3 , 0},

[20000] = dot_symbol(0.75, 0.1),

}

 

NavyFormat = {

--[distance] = {format, alignment, color_blending_k, opacity, shift_in_pixels_x, shift_in_pixels_y}

[10] = EMPTY,

[10000] = {navy_symbol_near ..NAME_DISTANCE ,"LeftBottom" ,0.75 , 0.7 , -3 , 0},

[20000] = {navy_symbol_far ..DISTANCE ,"LeftBottom" ,0.75 , 0.5 , -3 , 0},

[40000] = dot_symbol(0.75,0.1),

}

 

WeaponFormat = {

--[distance] = {format ,alignment, color_blending_k, opacity, shift_in_pixels_x, shift_in_pixels_y}

[5] = EMPTY,

[5000] = {weapon_symbol_near ..NAME_DISTANCE ,"LeftBottom" ,0.75 , 0.7 , -3 , 0},

[10000] = {weapon_symbol_far ..DISTANCE ,"LeftBottom" ,0.75 , 0.5 , -3 , 0},

[20000] = {weapon_symbol_far ,"LeftBottom" ,0.25 , 0.25 , -3 , 0},

}