Su-27 tires popping and pulling up in air?

[D4n]

Even when tapping SHORTLY, the pilot would get head shaking trauma from those 2 meters up and down movements of canopy...

[bkthunder]

The main point being:

 

the F-15 has toe brakes IRL > toe brakes in DCS

the Su-27 has toe brakes IRL > on/off keyboard button in DCS

[rvotri]

That thing sucks! Is it so hard to ED add an ABS system like on A10Cs.. nowadays all planes have ABS, even old ones, at least an Axis would be fine.

You survive a freaking BVR then enters a Dogfight and you have to reppair because you popped up a tire while breaking... COme on!!

[DarkFire]

According to the Su-27 real manual:

 

-Never exceed 50 Km/h in a straight line.

 

-Never exceed 20 Km/h in a turning less than 15m radious.

 

As per the manual quoted above, there are recommended taxi speed limits. Taxi more slowly, and dab the brakes rapidly to avoid popping tires.

[JazonXD]

Sorry to be a bit off topic here, but does the Su-27 have AFM or PFM? IIRC, the F-15C has been upgraded to PFM for a while but I don't remember if the Su-27 is PFM level yet? Thanks.

[rrohde]

Why? What's unrealistic about current MiG-29S behaviour? Only that it looses too much speed when turning, right?

 

The whole Mig-29 flight model is based on simple scripting, not highly accurate "airfoil-in-the-wind" behavior as it is with ED's PFM (Professional Flight Model). So everything in the FM of the Mig-29 A, G, and S, as well as the Su-33, is simplified - including ground handling. The good news is that the Mig-29s and the Su-33 will get their official PFMs soon after ED releases the DCS: Spitfire! :thumbup:

 

The difference between the Su-27's PFM and the Simple Flight Model (SFM) of the Su-33 is night and day. This stretches from taxiing, to braking and turning on the ground, to pushing the envelope in while airborne! :)

[rrohde]

The main point being:

 

the F-15 has toe brakes IRL > toe brakes in DCS

the Su-27 has toe brakes IRL > on/off keyboard button in DCS

 

Hopefully ED will give us analog axes for the Su-27 toe brakes soon. The current "W" wheel brake is actually a 'holding brake' to hold the 27 while spooling up the engines for take off.

[DarkFire]

Sorry to be a bit off topic here, but does the Su-27 have AFM or PFM? IIRC, the F-15C has been upgraded to PFM for a while but I don't remember if the Su-27 is PFM level yet? Thanks.

 

Full PFM, but still subject to the odd tweak here & there on occasion.

[DarkFire]

Hopefully ED will give us analog axes for the Su-27 toe brakes soon. The current "W" wheel brake is actually a 'holding brake' to hold the 27 while spooling up the engines for take off.

 

That would be very nice, as would implementation of the automatic braking system. As per the manual the drag chute is actually only meant to be used for slippery (ice, snow, wet weather etc.) runway conditions.

[D4n]

The whole Mig-29 flight model is based on simple scripting, not highly accurate "airfoil-in-the-wind" behavior as it is with ED's PFM (Professional Flight Model). So everything in the FM of the Mig-29 A, G, and S, as well as the Su-33, is simplified - including ground handling. The good news is that the Mig-29s and the Su-33 will get their official PFMs soon after ED releases the DCS: Spitfire! :thumbup:

 

Another WWII ac? Are there so many british DCS players? :P Alright... but tbh I think F-14, F-18 and MiG-31 modules will sell a lot better... :) (And finally get online multiplayer multicrew in Gazelle)

[probad]

hard to believe maybe, but there are many people in the world with different interests than you. among them, spitfire enthusiasts who may not yet have bought dcs for lack of said aircraft.

[D4n]

Isn't P-51 enough/similar enough to Spitfire?

[rrohde]

That would be very nice, as would implementation of the automatic braking system. As per the manual the drag chute is actually only meant to be used for slippery (ice, snow, wet weather etc.) runway conditions.

 

Auto-braking? Nice. Got some additional info on that?

[Nerd1000]

Isn't P-51 enough/similar enough to Spitfire?

No.

[vparez]

Isn't P-51 enough/similar enough to Spitfire?

 

It is as similar as F-14 is to the MiG-31.

[D4n]

So quite a lot. (long range missiles, two engines, ... ... only difference is RU/EN, and even P-51 and spitfire are both EN...)

[probad]

P-51 and spitfire are both EN...

pretty sure at this point it can no longer be said that americans lay exclusive claim to being ignorant

 

:doh:

[Esac_mirmidon]

Please.

 

 

" Su-27 tires " discussion.

 

Thanks.

[DarkFire]

Auto-braking? Nice. Got some additional info on that?

 

Unfortunately not much. There's a Spanish translation of an early Su-27S pilot's manual floating around the internet. The manual mentions that for normal landings the automatic brakes will slow the aircraft to taxi speed without deploying the chute, and that the only real use for the chute is to help slow it down for short runway landings or landings with a slippery runway surface.

 

I don't think the manual mentions how the automatic brakes work. The brakes that we have in DCS world on the Su-27 are in fact a holding brake which is designed to allow the pilot to run up the engines prior to a take-off run. Pure speculation on my part, but I think the automatic braking system is a system that the pilot turns on once the aircraft has aerobraked to beneath a given speed, which will then slow it down the rest of the way.

 

It is the case that for most of the Caucasus runways deploying the chute isn't necessary unless you're making a heavy or unusually fast landing.

[Gierasimov]

Su-27 landing

 

Unfortunately not much. There's a Spanish translation of an early Su-27S pilot's manual floating around the internet. The manual mentions that for normal landings the automatic brakes will slow the aircraft to taxi speed without deploying the chute, and that the only real use for the chute is to help slow it down for short runway landings or landings with a slippery runway surface(...)

 

There is also a Russian (original) Su-27SK manual floating around the Internet that mentions this:

 

Upon main gear touchdown, release braking chute to slow down and lower the nose wheel, then apply full wheel brakes.

 

Also, I spoke to Su-27 pilot at an airshow, when I approached him he was just finishing explaining landing procedure, I remember him saying that the plane is equipped with the system similar to ABS in a car. This would be consistent with the manual step of full wheel brakes application.

 

I tried that in DCS:Su27 and it works as described above.

 

Interesting?

[DarkFire]

There is also a Russian (original) Su-27SK manual floating around the Internet that mentions this:

 

Upon main gear touchdown, release braking chute to slow down and lower the nose wheel, then apply full wheel brakes.

 

Also, I spoke to Su-27 pilot at an airshow, when I approached him he was just finishing explaining landing procedure, I remember him saying that the plane is equipped with the system similar to ABS in a car. This would be consistent with the manual step of full wheel brakes application.

 

I tried that in DCS:Su27 and it works as described above.

 

Interesting?

 

That is interesting. And works as advertised. It also produces a very short landing run, but I'd be very cautious about using that technique all the time in-game, particularly because popping the chute while the nose gear is still up in the air smacks the nose wheel down quite hard. Holing the brakes key down also tends to pop tires fairly effectively. But... Yes it does work. Interesting. :wassat:

[Gierasimov]

There is also mentioned that high negative pitch form the chute is to be limited by pulling the stick sufficiently...

My interpretation is that this would just match your warning DarkFire... but is the simulated PFM THAT accurate ?

 

As for tires -- never happened to me - but it would depend on the roll out speed and I don't know if ABS like system is implemented in DCS...

Edited October 6, 2016 by Gierasimov

[DarkFire]

There is also mentioned that high negative pitch form the chute is to be limited by pulling the stick sufficiently...

My interpretation is that this would just match your warning DarkFire... but is the simulated PFM THAT accurate ?

 

As for tires -- never happened to me - but it would depend on the roll out speed and I don't know if ABS like system is implemented in DCS...

 

To be honest this isn't as landing technique that I use often at all, so it could well be the case that a bit of extra pitch will cancel out the rotation moment produced by deploying the chute. I don't think the DCS Su-27 models the ABS brakes unfortunately, though again in fairness I tend to land with higher than average speed - I tend to come over the runway threshold at ~300 and touch down at anything between 280 and 240 depending on weight.

 

The Flanker PFM is supposed to be pretty accurate. Apparently it's been tested and 'signed off' by actual Flanker pilots, so it should be pretty close. Having said that, the Su-27 flight model does get changed sometimes without it being mentioned in the patch notes. For example, I'm pretty sure that the engine thrust profile was changed again in a patch 2 weeks ago without it being mentioned.

[Gierasimov]

In the meantime I discovered that 27 is equipped with anti-skid wheel braking control system that detects wheel rotation speed and dampens the braking pressure as required.

I think it is modeled in DCS though but I don't have anything to support this theory;)

[WildBillKelsoe]

when landing correctly, brakes are never needed because drag chute takes the speed away. youre crossing 50 km/h on taxi?

 

 

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