Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 8

[RvE Ikillu]

Was in a heated discussion with someone on the server about getting killed by a Su27 when we were attacking an airfield. I complained that the SU27 starting with 20% fuel allows them to get into the air without refueling.

 

People will say Im sure, 'well moltar, they can't do anything with 20% fuel' well they can and do when the fight is directly over the airfield when CAS is attacking etc.

 

The person I was arguing with brought up that this whole fight is about asymmetry. Well, if that is the case, then why does the SU27 start with fuel and the F15 doesn't? Yes I know the F15 can take bags and go from there, but its a pig if you do that.

 

Why are things being compensated in that way if the whole point of this round was to make things east for west?

 

By the way, I want a discussion about this and not a sh*t show that normally happens.

 

The F15 might be able to carry 3 tanks but the fuel transfer rate is slow so if we take off with 3 bags no internal and immediately we have to drop tanks we cant do anything. There is no absolute way you can dogfight with 3 bags. 20% fuel is a lot especially when you are defending.

[Beeroshima]

In, addition, when we're attacking a Red Airfield, and one of you sees us coming in for a gun run on Interceptors that just spawned on the tarmac, and you switch slots over and over to avoid being strafed on the ground, it's pretty lame. I don't doubt that someone on blue has done it too, regardless of faction, there's a special spot in dcs hell for douchebaggery of this caliber.

[M0ltar]

In, addition, when we're attacking a Red Airfield, and one of you sees us coming in for a gun run on Interceptors that just spawned on the tarmac, and you switch slots over and over to avoid being strafed on the ground, it's pretty lame. I don't doubt that someone on blue has done it too, regardless of faction, there's a special spot in dcs hell for douchebaggery of this caliber.

 

I have to say though, blue abuses the respawning thing on the ground just as much as red does.

[Beeroshima]

Fair enough. My post wasn't a "you red bastards!" Type of thing. It was a complaint about a category of players on both sides, in relation to attacking a field.

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[VikingTsunami]

Man, I'm just having fun flying blueflag, there's way too much complaining in this thread. What about we just have fun this round, and then we have a good big summary at the end of the round of the changes we want for the next round?

 

All of you have the possibility to send Ciri or Xcom a PM with changes you want for the next round, and I think if you have a good enough reason they will actually listen to you. But all this shit-talking is getting stupid and ridiculous, why can we just not play and have some fun before this round ends?

Edited August 13, 2016 by VikingTsunami

[Reaper6]

Man, I'm just having fun flying blueflag, there's way too much complaining in this thread. What about we just have fun this round, and then we have a good big summary at the end of the round of the changes we want for the next round?

 

All of you have the possibility to send Ciri or Xcom a PM with changes you want for the next round, and I think if you have a good enough reason they will actually listen to you. But all this shit-talking is getting stupid and ridiculous, why can we just not play and have some fun before this round ends?

 

AGREED!

 

Reaper6

[Jman]

Just enjoy the last few days

 

Can't wait for the next round, hoping to jump back in the flanker!

 

Will miss my m2k :(

[mia389]

But all this shit-talking is getting stupid and ridiculous, why can we just not play and have some fun before this round ends?

 

I seen no shit talking this whole page?

 

I think you might interpret someones concerns, suggestions, and bug reporting wrong. That is what this thread is for no?

[VikingTsunami]

I seen no shit talking this whole page?

 

I think you might interpret someones concerns, suggestions, and bug reporting wrong. That is what this thread is for no?

 

Yes, indeed, this page seems to be clear of all that :) Good :)

[Kozmyk]

Where did the server go?

Crashed with an hour to go.

Hasn't come back up.

[Hedhunta]

Everyone can think what they want, but the team that is losing is always the one complaining in this thread. It happened with blue with the KA50 and now its red with numbers.

 

With your logic, all red has to do is join and this push will stop. As I type this there are 5 open slots in the server so all red needs to do is join. I know you have the number to fill the server because during the first night of your push there were 30-40 reds on.

 

I just want to be clear, I still the KA50 is a problem, Blue has been able to overcome it again with massive numbers superiority( saw 40-3 the other night lol), but whenever red has even numbers they are able to stop blue in their tracks and take everything that took 40 blues to take.

 

Also can we do something about the freakin 10 mig29's that spawn out of pak1 if you go anywhere near one of those three airbases?? Crappy F-4's aside, I don't remember seeing 10 of them spawn at once when Red took tblisi et all.

[Frostie]

Was in a heated discussion with someone on the server about getting killed by a Su27 when we were attacking an airfield. I complained that the SU27 starting with 20% fuel allows them to get into the air without refueling.

 

People will say Im sure, 'well moltar, they can't do anything with 20% fuel' well they can and do when the fight is directly over the airfield when CAS is attacking etc.

 

The person I was arguing with brought up that this whole fight (blueflag) is about asymmetry. Well, if that is the case, then why does the SU27 start with fuel and the F15 doesn't? The SU27 vs F15 is the only matchup that has anything like this in the entire server. I don't see this compensation with CAS or helicopters when there are differences in those air frames. Yes, I know that this was put in so that both aircraft can get in the air at the same time with 100% and that is great, but it does not stop people from taking off with 20% to defend an airbase. EVen if they shoot one person down, that one person has to then come 100nm when they get to respawn right below where they died. Yes I know the F15 can take bags and go from there, but its a pig if you do that and can and will stall.

 

Why are things being compensated in that way if the whole point of this round was to make things east for west?

 

By the way, I want a discussion about this and not a sh*t show that normally happens.

 

So your saying your F-15 guys can't compete with attacking strikers when they have bags on, oh dear that is funny, I dunno, maybe they could get good or something. Of course an F-15 can fight with bags on. What do you suggest, rather having both aircraft capable of taking off without refuelling just have the F-15 only capable.

 

There are pros and cons to every aircraft, if you want balance in the game then how about R-27R gets the same range as an AIM-7, AIM-9 gets as cool as R-73 or AIM-9 gets a big marshmallow smoke trail like every Russian missile does. How about Russian datalink, where is it? F-15 didn't get it until 2005 but Flankers had it in the chosen era, it works in game but still we don't get it, it is probably best they don't include it though especially considering the trouble a lot of F-15s are apparently having with just Strikers. All of this is pointless game balancing.

 

The list is endless and pointless lets just enjoy what BS create or bring a sensible alternative to what is already a sensible set up.

 

Also can we do something about the freakin 10 mig29's that spawn out of pak1 if you go anywhere near one of those three airbases?? Crappy F-4's aside, I don't remember seeing 10 of them spawn at once when Red took tblisi et all.

You've either never been on Red or never been on when it mattered. :)

Edited August 13, 2016 by Frostie

[M0ltar]

So your saying your F-15 guys can't compete with attacking strikers when they have bags on, oh dear that is funny, I dunno, maybe they could get good or something. Of course an F-15 can fight with bags on. What do you suggest, rather having both aircraft capable of taking off without refuelling just have the F-15 only capable.

 

There are pros and cons to every aircraft, how about R-27R gets the same range as an AIM-7, AIM-9 gets as cool as R-73 or AIM-9 gets a big marshmallow smoke trail like every Russian missile does. How about Russian datalink, where is it? F-15 didn't get it until 2005 but Flankers had it in the chosen era, it works in game but still we don't get it, it is probably best they don't include it though especially considering the trouble a lot of F-15s are apparently having with just Strikers.

 

The list is endless and pointless lets just enjoy what BS create or bring a sensible alternative to what is already a sensible set up.

 

 

You've either never been on Red or never been on when it mattered. :)

 

I never said that. Im saying they can't compete with SU27's or 29's with bags on and even then the fuel flow rate is very slow so if you jettison you're done, but if you keep them on you turn like a blimp. You also named things that you have a disadvantage in, but there are several things they you guys have that the F15's don't.

 

The reason you don't have datalink is because there are no AWACS (at least that is how I understand it).

 

Id like it all to be included for all the jets. Stop primping things to make one side even over the other. Each side has its advantages and disadvantages, let them play out and people mold strategies to deal with the pros and cons. Before too long with all the restrictions, its just going to be gun vs gun because everything else is unfair. Im sure someone will be able to find a reason why one gun is better than the other though.

Edited August 13, 2016 by M0ltar

[levanoga]

The civies in the thread being experts in Russian aviation tech, its like I am reading YouTube comments.:megalol::megalol::megalol:

 

You people are golden and the reason no one outside of yourself takes the DCS community serious.

[Frostie]

The civies in the thread being experts in Russian aviation tech, its like I am reading YouTube comments.:megalol::megalol::megalol:

 

You people are golden and the reason no one outside of yourself takes the DCS community serious.

 

Climb down a bit. I didn't make those points out of a reflection to reality just out of a game balancing reference which is what some seem to want. I'm not asking for those changes just highlighting the level of depth you can make for the sake of balance. I should of had another coffee and worded it clearer.

 

 

Id like it all to be included for all the jets. Stop primping things to make one side even over the other. Each side has its advantages and disadvantages, let them play out and people mold strategies to deal with the pros and cons. Before too long with all the restrictions, its just going to be gun vs gun because everything else is unfair. Im sure someone will be able to find a reason why one gun is better than the other though.

 

That was exactly the point I was trying to make regarding the fuel, there is no easy option.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Frostie

[gregzagk]

Where did the server go?

Crashed with an hour to go.

Hasn't come back up.

 

Hey yes, unfortunately it was down for 2 hours.

Back up again.

 

Greg

[Frostie]

I never said that. Im saying they can't compete with SU27's or 29's with bags on and even then the fuel flow rate is very slow so if you jettison you're done, but if you keep them on you turn like a blimp.

Lets go back to point of the discussion you wanted and remove the nonsense I brought into it so as we don't get interrupted by any potentially willing oiks. It doesn't turn like a blimp that is trying to make it sound worse than what it actually is, it is still an agile fighter. Just one tank is equal to 20% fuel in the Flanker. Do you think it is fair that an F-15 with 3 tanks can start immediately with a Flankers equivalent of 60% fuel. Of course it isn't but that is the pros and cons.

What do you suggest would be an improvement?

Edited August 13, 2016 by Frostie

[*Rage*]

I'm loving the team spirit on Red. Last night we were fighting against stupid odds again (14 Red vs 36 Blue) and we gave them an incredibly hard time. Good Job to the usual suspects! If your ever around London drop me a PM and ill buy you a drink:)

 

Hard to believe the gall of people complaining about Red being OP. As I type this over breakfast again it's 20 Blue vs 1 Red on the server. You don't even want that one guy to scramble? Just lol:)

[Beeroshima]

I think the issue with the fueling is that it gives red the capacity to get planes in the air with such rapid speed when defending. You have to kill one fighter 4 times in 7 minutes sometimes. It makes it so 2 guys can make you need to shoot down 8 planes and so on and so forth. It gets pretty ridiculous. I don't know what the solution is, or what the limitations of the engine/scripts are, but I wonder if there's a possibility imposing a cool down on spawns at one airfield. Even if it was a 2 minute one.

 

I personally don't care if they start with 20%, but when they can start at 20% and launch immediately 4 times that it gets kinda corny.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[roccoo]

Mouse warriors...

 

Please guys don't even reply to Beeroshima.

[razgriz33]

crikey, it's come a long way this round. truly end to end stuff.

[OperatorJack]

I think the issue with the fueling is that it gives red the capacity to get planes in the air with such rapid speed when defending.

 

Are you forgetting you need to arm the plane?

Which takes about the same amount of time as putting bags on the F-15, or are you guys really having trouble with clean Su-27s gunning down all your attacking forces?

[Reaper6]

I just want to be clear, I still the KA50 is a problem, Blue has been able to overcome it again with massive numbers superiority( saw 40-3 the other night lol), but whenever red has even numbers they are able to stop blue in their tracks and take everything that took 40 blues to take.

 

Also can we do something about the freakin 10 mig29's that spawn out of pak1 if you go anywhere near one of those three airbases?? Crappy F-4's aside, I don't remember seeing 10 of them spawn at once when Red took tblisi et all.

 

Stop hating on my beautiful BlackShark, she deserves respect!

 

Reaper6

[roccoo]

How long is it going to be night?

[Dave317]

Hate the night in blueflag.