Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 8

[Reaper6]

What your FARP ? All petting zoos will be blue on mission start ofc. Reds will have to pay double entrance fee in fuel. :lol:

The oppresive redfor repression has to continue in every area.

 

Dunno If you are referring to my fleet Ideas, I am not requesting them, just shared my thoughts on how naval aircraft/ anti ship aircraft could get a job in blueflag.

And since, if we speculate wildly, we will have something like 2-3 rounds before theese frames start to materialize, I just wanted to get the ball rolling Idea wise. :) Not requesting that my Idea shall get implemented. :D

[Viggen, F18, Tomcat with a big question mark, although the state the Viggen will get released in, as it seems, might indeed allow Leatherneck to bring the f14 sooner then one think they will but hey, speculations]

 

I should really write a disclaimer in my signature that all my statements are made while beeing aware that I am one person, I can only ever have a limited perspective and while I try to be as close as something vaguely defineable as "correct", I never expect to be correct, even if I do not see the flaw in my thinking. :D

 

And then people would probably not read the disclaimer and still think I am not beeing aware of that but well hey. :D happenz

 

 

EDIT: Where did the freakin post go reaper. :D Not only your KA50 disappears form radar, also your post. OP PLOX NURF :D

 

I didn't want to be too big of a troll, lol.

[microvax]

I didn't want to be too big of a troll, lol.

 

Mission failed, press F to pay respects. :lol:

[karambiatos]

If it's East/West, then things have to become nerfed, and unfair, and we have people complaining. No AIM-120s & ETs, no CBUs or anti-radiation missiles, F-15's spawning w/o fuel, inferrior blue AI aircraft and intelligence, etc. etc. Where does the nerfing stop until everybody is happy with East/West.

Conveniently forgetting that the other side doesn't get any of it's good AA systems.

 

but that's fine i guess.

[Jester Darrak]

I don't get your point either. You missed with guns pre-merge, turned around and killed him. He should of turned off afterburner and sneak away, but there is nothing that has to do with FM.

 

-1 for bad music

 

My feelings about round 8 is that we all got screwed over by ED patch. It was just bad luck for REDFOR that BLUFOR had so much clickydiclick modules while RED is stuck with flying feathers (muhahahahaha)

Overall the most annoying feature was the clickwar sitting in server browser giving up to fingercramps and just play a less populated server instead, but good to see the BF and especially BLUFOR being so popular :D I hope for even more fun and a even greater challenge in the form of more skills and less bugs for all of us in next rounds to come!

 

I dedicate this piece to all REDFOR fighters for keeping up with "documented PRO flight models"

(Frustrations are well documented)

 

[Reaper6]

I don't get your point either. You missed with guns pre-merge, turned around and killed him. He should of turned off afterburner and sneak away, but there is nothing that has to do with FM.

 

-1 for bad music

 

Just a ?

 

Do you ever add anything positive to the community of DCS? Some of your comments in this thread have been completely toxic.

 

Reaper6

[M460]

Now that the NATO vs RUSSIA hardware round is finished. I would hope to see all full fidelity models spread out between both team. This would enforce effective comms between assets. People unable to communicate and coordinate with others would be in risk of getting punished with friendly fire. That also includes having the Mig-29G on blue side which is time to bring back.

 

The F4 AI has reached its service lifecycle, looking forward to a better match to the MIG-29A.

 

And great job to all on round 8 specially to the BS team for listening to our concerns.

[Caffeine_High]

Now that the NATO vs RUSSIA hardware round is finished. I would hope to see all full fidelity models spread out between both team. This would enforce effective comms between assets. People unable to communicate and coordinate with others would be in risk of getting punished with friendly fire. That also includes having the Mig-29G on blue side which is time to bring back.

 

The F4 AI has reached its service lifecycle, looking forward to a better match to the MIG-29A.

 

And great job to all on round 8 specially to the BS team for listening to our concerns.

 

:thumbsup:

[microvax]

Now that the NATO vs RUSSIA hardware round is finished. I would hope to see all full fidelity models spread out between both team. This would enforce effective comms between assets. People unable to communicate and coordinate with others would be in risk of getting punished with friendly fire. That also includes having the Mig-29G on blue side which is time to bring back.

 

The F4 AI has reached its service lifecycle, looking forward to a better match to the MIG-29A.

 

And great job to all on round 8 specially to the BS team for listening to our concerns.

 

:cry: Dont leave us 460, plox.

[Farlander]

So, everyone tells me that what i've seen must have been right after restart or some other reason every time. If the balance truly is pretty much 1-1 then i'm happy. But from all i've seen and what i have heard from friends i have yet to see more red than blue as often as the opposite. I live in Europe, so i shouldn't be far off prime time RED.

 

If the hosters of the mission has control on how many registered to each side, why not show us, i hope it's because that's something they don't have. No, im not for RED or BLUE, im against stacking and unfair advantages. Was the battle really that close this time, because it sure didn't seem like it when i was flying.

 

i just checked other opinions in this thread, and i saw a guy posting pictures of the balance on different hour and days, and only a few times was there more REd than BLUE in the timezone that should have favored RED players (if we go by geographic location).

 

This is nothing against the organizers of the server and mission, as some guy claimed. Im simply just a bit disappointed in how it played out. I have enjoyed my time on the server, and there's a reason i return to it every time it is going on. As for the people commenting on my post about whatever type of person i am, go somewhere else. I really hope none of those who worked on it took the criticism i posted earlier as hate, even though one guy in the comments seemed fuzzed about it... I really loved the implementation and use of SimpleRadio

 

As for Ka-50 being complained upon i don't know.. RED have Ka-50, BLUE has M-2000, not same roles, but an advantage for both over the other anyhow. I really think the sa-8 is a bit too much of a nerf, and the Su-25 in my opinion lost quite alot of what it is good for.

[NineLine]

Just a ?

 

Do you ever add anything positive to the community of DCS? Some of your comments in this thread have been completely toxic.

 

Reaper6

 

I am getting tired of moderating these threads, if I see anymore back and forth in these threads I will close it based on 1.6. I really don't want to because I like seeing an active fun MP experience, but this petty kindergarten silliness is growing weary and takes away from the fun of the server.

 

Please take personal issues to PMs, or just go shoot each other in the face with missiles... whatever is easier.

[Frostie]

What I also would find interesting would be capturing small amounts of enemy equipment. like red getting 1 or 2 f15s out of blue home bases and blue su27s. Or mi29/mirages etc. etc.. Dunno just an idea.

 

I don't want to be too harsh on you coming up with new ideas but this one is daft as :animals_bunny: . Never used that smiley before.

 

Our countries best pilots who have just managed to push the enemy back to capture this airbase, lets get them to land their beloved jets they've trained in for years at said airbase, then jump into these foreign wangdangles and give them a shot for a change, what could possibly go wrong, surely that would make us even more invincible.

 

I think this would be taking things in the wrong direction. ;)

[Beeroshima]

Conveniently forgetting that the other side doesn't get any of it's good AA systems.

 

but that's fine i guess.

Which side are you referring to?

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[microvax]

I don't want to be too harsh on you coming up with new ideas but this one is daft as :animals_bunny: . Never used that smiley before.

 

Our countries best pilots who have just managed to push the enemy back to capture this airbase, lets get them to land their beloved jets they've trained in for years at said airbase, then jump into these foreign wangdangles and give them a shot for a change, what could possibly go wrong, surely that would make us even more invincible.

 

I think this would be taking things in the wrong direction. ;)

 

Dunno, capturing enemy equipment and using it is not exactly daft/unheard of.

And since we are all DCS pilots and only a small faction is single frame pilots, doesnt seem too useless to me.

If any sides single frame pilots decide to get into other frames and fail horribly due to the different style, dunno. :D blame the pilot.

 

I mean disclaimer again not thinking its the best idea ever but daft is an clear exageration in the other direction. And honestly, Alpenwolf likes it and I respect him as as a very reasonable person to discuss with. :D

 

So yeah I totally get and accept that you dont like the Idea but I protest in a friendly manner that its not darft. :D

[if the daftness you write of is caused by the "wrong direction" please elaborate what you mean, didnt get the memo there. :) ]

Edited August 15, 2016 by microvax

[M460]

:cry: Dont leave us 460, plox.

 

Had a great time with the blue crew this round. Ill always be where the Huey is most needed and would like to see some of the frequent players switch out between rounds and contribute with balance where most needed. Even in small numbers we can still deliver massive damage on the battlefield. :thumbup:

[Manzanita]

If I ever see a RED F15, I'd be done with this server. Seriously if you want that experience go air quake on the 104th.

[Caffeine_High]

If I ever see a RED F15, I'd be done with this server. Seriously if you want that experience go air quake on the 104th.

 

104th is not a dynamic campaign, blue flag is. Blue flag limits spawns, 104th doesn't. You must refuel F-15s and SU-27 in blue flag, in 104th you start full of fuel. Anything else?

There are no quakegasms going on and there won't be with those server limitations.

[Alpenwolf]

If I ever see a RED F15, I'd be done with this server. Seriously if you want that experience go air quake on the 104th.

 

I agree somehow. Just finished flying on 104th. Boy, it felt so damn strange flying formation with F-15's, M-2000's etc. It doesn't feel right :)

 

As to the balance. If you talk about having the same number of players on each side (more or less) I totally agree. Last round was pretty tough for us red pilots. Giving both sides the same planes/helis to achieve "combat balance" is simply not needed. Is that how it is in reality? In WWll for example the arsenal was totally different. Every country had to come up with different strategies. Same thing with all the wars the world has seen and still does :noexpression: The decisive factor was the massive players' unbalance nothing else. The bugs added more to it but weren't the major factor.

[Frostie]

So yeah I totally get and accept that you dont like the Idea but I protest in a friendly manner that its not darft. :D

[if the daftness you write of is caused by the "wrong direction" please elaborate what you mean, didnt get the memo there. :) ]

 

If you want to simulate a gaming environment then by all means it's a great idea but I don't think BS are trying to do that. If you understand how real world airforces operate you'd know that it is not done with solo aircraft operating on their own while the rest of the airforce works together with different systems, C3, link-16, datalink, comms etc. Having a high power airforce getting foreign aircraft up and running on the same day in the middle of a war without any training and zero integration sounds pretty daft to me.

[Voodooflies]

If I ever see a RED F15, I'd be done with this server. Seriously if you want that experience go air quake on the 104th.

 

Same here. Keep it as it is. My only request so far would be to replace those rusty F4 by something more up-to-date. How about replacing those by some early F-16s at least ?

[Jester Darrak]

I just ran a quick test F-16A (7M, 9M, 9P x2) vs. MiG29A (27R, 60M, 73 x2). Had them compete 5 rounds each in dogfight (start at 500ft seperation, head on) and medium range (7NM seperation, head on).

MiG won every dogfight. Mid Range was 2:3 in favor of the MiG. Sparrow went stupid as soon as the motor stopped burning. In one fight the 29 took 2 missiles before it died, F-16 always went down on the first hit.

 

Nice to know: AI fights with handbreak on, rarely exceeding 300kts, never pulling more than 3 or 4 Gs. Sissies...

 

What about replacing the 29 instead with a 23, wouldn't that be more of a match? I think it was up until round 6 came up when the 29 took it's place, was there a specific reason?

 

 

Same here. Keep it as it is. My only request so far would be to replace those rusty F4 by something more up-to-date. How about replacing those by some early F-16s at least ?

Edited August 16, 2016 by Jester Darrak

[Hansdampf]

Big thanks to the buddyspike team for trying out the Nato vs Soviet scenario! Ever since Blue Flag 1 I thought it would be a nice idea to try this.

 

It is a pity that the player numbers shifted extremely towards the blue team but with all the fancy new modules being western planes this was kind of expected. Unfortunately with only western planes being released in the coming years it’s going to be tough to motivate players to play red in this kind of scenario. I wish there were some soviet/eastern modules coming out in the future... Maybe putting the Mirage on red might be an option?

 

Anyway, I think BS did a great job in balancing out advantages and disadvantages of the available airframes. I don’t understand why people are so unhappy about the weapon restrictions. Sure there might be some tweaks necessary but these restrictions are definitely necessary to make the older planes a viable option (and also to balance the different air to ground abilities of red and blue).

 

 

I think the main two issues in this round (and blue flag in general) is the extreme imbalance in player numbers and the fact that one team can conquer the map without any opposing players being online. So here are my ideas to address these issues although I have no idea if these could be implemented.

 

- Easiest way to address the imbalance is probably to limit the teams. Maybe not perfectly 27vs27 but restricting one team to a maximum of 30-35 players would at least prevent these silly 45 vs 9 situations…

- Flexible weapon restrictions: If 1 hour after server restart the average player ratio is 3:1 or worse the smaller team gets more modern A2A weapons until the next server restart (ERs and ETs for Red or Aim-120s for blue). Maybe the smaller team could also be allowed to build BUKs instead of KUBs. That way the outnumbered team stands a better chance fighting back.

- Invasion of AI ground forces: The outnumbered side is supported by their corresponding AI-army. So if red is outnumbered extremely (or not present at all) a small army spawns in the east and attacks the airports around Tbilisi. When blue is outnumbered something similar happens at Anapa/Krymsk/Novorossiysk (maybe some ships and an amphibic assault?).

I know moving and fighting AI-units are an issue in DCS so to simplify the idea: If one team fights 15vs0 or 40vs5 for a while, some of their inland airfields/citys/farps changes side spontaneously.

This would especially be useful in preventing one team from conquering the whole map when no one of the other team is playing. If it is player vs AI anyway it could at least be a challenge…

 

 

Keep up the good work! Looking forward to the next round!

[Coxy_99]

Big thanks to the buddyspike team for trying out the Nato vs Soviet scenario! Ever since Blue Flag 1 I thought it would be a nice idea to try this.

 

It is a pity that the player numbers shifted extremely towards the blue team but with all the fancy new modules being western planes this was kind of expected. Unfortunately with only western planes being released in the coming years it’s going to be tough to motivate players to play red in this kind of scenario. I wish there were some soviet/eastern modules coming out in the future... Maybe putting the Mirage on red might be an option?

 

Anyway, I think BS did a great job in balancing out advantages and disadvantages of the available airframes. I don’t understand why people are so unhappy about the weapon restrictions. Sure there might be some tweaks necessary but these restrictions are definitely necessary to make the older planes a viable option (and also to balance the different air to ground abilities of red and blue).

 

 

I think the main two issues in this round (and blue flag in general) is the extreme imbalance in player numbers and the fact that one team can conquer the map without any opposing players being online. So here are my ideas to address these issues although I have no idea if these could be implemented.

 

- Easiest way to address the imbalance is probably to limit the teams. Maybe not perfectly 27vs27 but restricting one team to a maximum of 30-35 players would at least prevent these silly 45 vs 9 situations…

- Flexible weapon restrictions: If 1 hour after server restart the average player ratio is 3:1 or worse the smaller team gets more modern A2A weapons until the next server restart (ERs and ETs for Red or Aim-120s for blue). Maybe the smaller team could also be allowed to build BUKs instead of KUBs. That way the outnumbered team stands a better chance fighting back.

- Invasion of AI ground forces: The outnumbered side is supported by their corresponding AI-army. So if red is outnumbered extremely (or not present at all) a small army spawns in the east and attacks the airports around Tbilisi. When blue is outnumbered something similar happens at Anapa/Krymsk/Novorossiysk (maybe some ships and an amphibic assault?).

I know moving and fighting AI-units are an issue in DCS so to simplify the idea: If one team fights 15vs0 or 40vs5 for a while, some of their inland airfields/citys/farps changes side spontaneously.

This would especially be useful in preventing one team from conquering the whole map when no one of the other team is playing. If it is player vs AI anyway it could at least be a challenge…

 

 

Keep up the good work! Looking forward to the next round!

 

There will always be an imbalance of players, I find theres loads of reds on during the day, Then in the evening you will find more blue, Round 7 was a perfect example of this where we fought back and fourth for MM59 and Beslain. I dont think limiting teams would work.

[Hansdampf]

There will always be an imbalance of players, I find theres loads of reds on during the day, Then in the evening you will find more blue, Round 7 was a perfect example of this where we fought back and fourth for MM59 and Beslain. I dont think limiting teams would work.

 

 

Well, in the previous rounds (1-7) it worked out somehow. During the European afternoon/evening it was reasonably balanced. At EU-night it was all blue and in the morning/noon all red. In average it was all balancedish. So yes, there was no need to limit the teams.

 

However, round 8 was a little different. Seems like every evening the server was full and the blue team had a (sometimes huge) number advantage. It is nice that Blue Flag is so popular but when one team has to play 40vs10 too often don’t you think that is a problem?

 

As written above, there are other options instead of limiting the teams and BS already tried some (Additional AI-fighters, making bases non-captureable when no opposition is present…). Limiting the teams would just be the simplest way of solving the “full server – 40vs10”-problem.

 

I hope Greg/BS will post the player numbers/statistics soon so we can have a look on the true numbers and not rely on feelings and anecdotal evidence/screenshots…

[Serg23]

Congrats Blue for WIN!

 

To event moderator:

 

Can you add sea carrier for both sides with the same weapon restriction and fuel delivery by Heli?

 

Lockated 75-100 km from sea edje?

[Coxy_99]

Also IF possible big IF AAR tankers one each on either side or would this not work?