the craziest cookiest and coolest kill ive ever gotten in dcs

[jojo]

Most AG weapons are restricted to subsonic speed, on most fighters.

It's the same for bomb release. Releasing a bomb outside its envelope can result in separation problems, like the bomb going up and colliding with the plane.

 

I don't think any simulator account for that, but some current practice, like supersonic bombing are not wise.

[Aginor]

Yeah, it isn't done in real life, for very good reasons.

[microvax]

Most AG weapons are restricted to subsonic speed, on most fighters.

It's the same for bomb release. Releasing a bomb outside its envelope can result in separation problems, like the bomb going up and colliding with the plane.

 

I don't think any simulator account for that, but some current practice, like supersonic bombing are not wise.

 

Yeah, it isn't done in real life, for very good reasons.

 

Interesting, didnt know that. I mean You do only reach mach 1.15 or something with 4 mk82s only, with any reasonable a2g setup you do not reach over mach 1.05 anyways, so it should be no big deal GS wise to stick to subsonic launches.

[bkthunder]

There is a sim that even simulates pylon rocking at high subsonic speeds, depending on the load-out. That would be very cool to have also in DCS.

[Rlaxoxo]

There is a sim that even simulates pylon rocking at high subsonic speeds, depending on the load-out. That would be very cool to have also in DCS.

 

Like in BMS that was cool

[cauldron]

From what i have seen in Falcon BMS is wing flapping - which is totally wrong! <--- ok, a tad harsh but hear me out and listen to me later .... that's called flutter and F-16's don't flutter within their flight envelopes. What real wings do do however is flex under load. So an F-16 pulls hard and the wings create a cantilever type force upwards along the wing, the wing will "flex" upwards, remove the force and it reduces the flex. To actually be able to 'see' it you need LARGE force differences. The only ones that can do it, is lift vector forces, caused by pilot induced g-loading the flex is relatively slow and in tune with how hard the pilot pulls the plane. the only other forces out there that can do it are from turbulence effects, usually found at low altitude and high speed caused by the plane flying through different densities and windshears in the air as it flies through them - not high altitude speed whether transonic or supersonic as that would be flutter. In pilot talk these are known as buffets. High speed and low altitude .5g buffet frequency is a measurable attribute of aircraft, some more sensitive to them than others. Main factors are atmosphere conditions ie. turbulence (pressure variations from hotter and colder local air pockets and windshears between them as well -ie. local wind variations.) also the plane itself, airspeed and wing-loading as well as aspect ratio. Traditionally delta wings are highly sensitive to low level ride buffets vs other wing types, but they have their many advantages elsewhere, especially unstable designs, not the stable ones from the mirage3 era.

 

So back to the F-16 BMS ... wings will not "flap" and the degree that they flap seem be not related to real life, so its a 'made up' feel. Had they modeled wing flexing and not flapping - flutter - that would have been nice. But I understand the effort to add something to the game t "feeling" which is really important in sims as that is what they most lack in general.

 

So i would give BMS an A for effort but a C for barely passing showing F-16's wings fluttering, and not flexing.

 

my 2 cents.

 

I would love that razbam program in low altitude buffeting on the mirage, a true function of flying through the atmosphere at high speed and low altitude- usually day time (differential ground heating causing thermals great for this!) would do WONDERS to the immersion effect of flying the module.

 

When i make a mission with my friends in the editor i almost always add a haze layer and low level turbulence as well as winds to make it feel as best as possible. having a wind even small is the norm for landing, raely do u get the cup-of-milk air conditions that the air is calm and even and you can fly hands off with zero buffets - great time to do dependent flights though :P no one gets scared or vomits :P add yes it's happened to me :puke:

 

So... uh i guess this turns out to be a plead to razbam to add to the module when able buffet effects, and along that would be awesome over wing condensation effects dependent on lift force and atmosphere density -humidity.

Edited August 8, 2016 by cauldron
re-reading posts helps a lot, to add flavor, often missing in posts.. + my omegerd frakken woriphless keybaord!

[cauldron]

Most AG weapons are restricted to subsonic speed, on most fighters.

It's the same for bomb release. Releasing a bomb outside its envelope can result in separation problems, like the bomb going up and colliding with the plane.

 

I don't think any simulator account for that, but some current practice, like supersonic bombing are not wise.

 

JoJo said it... here's some video evidence! Que Corra el video! :megalol:

 

[ame]

[/ame]

 

& another...

 

[ame]

[/ame] Edited August 8, 2016 by cauldron

[Voodooflies]

here's the video

 

after about a half hour of messing around with the mirage which i now dearly love i was able out-hollywood hollywood itself with the coolest kill ive ever gotten in my years of playing dcs,

:P

 

track is available for download!

 

Don't delete it ! This is gold ! :lol:

[Fri13]

Is the bugs like this as reason why Mirage 2000C isn't yet in the Steam on sale?

[Ramsay]

From what i have seen in Falcon BMS is wing flapping - which is totally wrong! <--- ok, a tad harsh but hear me out and listen to me later .... that's called flutter and F-16's don't flutter within their flight envelopes.

As to the F-16, there's plenty of research on the relevant harmonic frequencies https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279852377_Nonlinear_Ground_Vibration_Identification_of_an_F-16_Aircraft_-_Part_II_Understanding_Nonlinear_Behaviour_in_Aerospace_Structures_Using_Sine-sweep_Testing

 

Anyway back on topic, looking forward to the M-2000C when it comes to Steam, FM WIP or not.

[Fri13]

Yeah, they do. And it would be as useless in combat (although probably not as dangerous or they wouldn't do it) as in the DCS Mirage.

 

I just love how so many say that feature X would be certainly useless in the combat.

And yet in combat the one wins who have largest toolbox and capability to use those tools, and mind to know when to use specific tools.

 

Just reminded from many cases like this (not so great examples but just slight)

[ame]

[/ame]

 

[ame]

[/ame]

 

[ame]

[/ame]

 

So we should just forget "feature X is useless in combat" as pilot is tool, who gives a change to enemy to use something against you that you thought "is useless".

It is like a chess, a beginners think that a pawn is useless unlike other rear row pieces, and yet a single pawn is usually the one that defines the end in a opening game.

[Zeus67]

Most AG weapons are restricted to subsonic speed, on most fighters.

It's the same for bomb release. Releasing a bomb outside its envelope can result in separation problems, like the bomb going up and colliding with the plane.

 

I don't think any simulator account for that, but some current practice, like supersonic bombing are not wise.

 

This is a video of what happens when you try to release/jettison any store outside the established parameters:

 

[Fri13]

 

Anyway back on topic, looking forward to the M-2000C when it comes to Steam, FM WIP or not.

 

That is the thing, I would have purchased it on first beta day condition if it would have been available from the steam. Now I just feel a second level customer. If I would have found the beta release to be unplayable, I would have waited updates or avoided the situations where the bug would appear, or just simply use those bugs to create something historical like this original poster video, that is already impossible or will be impossible in the future after it getting fixed.

 

So here we are, we saw something fancy/crazy and we got our laughs and people are already killing the mood by talking how feature X would not be possible or "smart thing to do" in combat etc.

 

I just now start hoping that ED would pull DCS from the Steam if there is a reason why Steam customers can't get enjoy to released modules. It is causing negative impact to customer base that we have started slowly to get away from music/movie/series/games globally where you might have been required to wait months if not years that something came available to other regions.

 

So we can just envy those who are willing to make these videos and willing to stay only in ED store as first rank customers.

[Whisper]

You're talking about "first" and "second" rank customers like it's a paying privilege. It's not, it's a choice YOU made.

[Zeus67]

That is the thing, I would have purchased it on first beta day condition if it would have been available from the steam. Now I just feel a second level customer. If I would have found the beta release to be unplayable, I would have waited updates or avoided the situations where the bug would appear, or just simply use those bugs to create something historical like this original poster video, that is already impossible or will be impossible in the future after it getting fixed.

 

So here we are, we saw something fancy/crazy and we got our laughs and people are already killing the mood by talking how feature X would not be possible or "smart thing to do" in combat etc.

 

I just now start hoping that ED would pull DCS from the Steam if there is a reason why Steam customers can't get enjoy to released modules. It is causing negative impact to customer base that we have started slowly to get away from music/movie/series/games globally where you might have been required to wait months if not years that something came available to other regions.

 

So we can just envy those who are willing to make these videos and willing to stay only in ED store as first rank customers.

 

You're talking about "first" and "second" rank customers like it's a paying privilege. It's not, it's a choice YOU made.

 

Please cut it out with this kind of talk. There is no customer ranking. There is a policy on steam releases that indicates that the aircraft must be feature complete. We are getting there. The steam page is ready but the aircraft is not per the policy. As soon as it is, it will be release and that is what we are working to do.

[Xenovia]

i like it, i can make some sick stunts with it.

[xKBLx_Viper_6354]

Can't wait for the update. I always love flying after one to see what feels different.

[Andrei]

We're getting into the area where without wind tunnel or high fidelity CFD in a high performance computing center and the desire to run real-time, the only option is a bit of intuition and art to provide a reasonable response in those areas.

 

I've listened to an interview with YoYo - lead FM developer from ED side. What you said is pretty much the same things he did. They can make FM about as accurate as it gets in normal flight modes. However tuning the remaining 5-10%, covering out-of-the-box flight modes is a mix or art and wizardry. Way to go, gentlemen :)

[Zaz0]

Nice kill! xD

 

And very nice responses from RAZBAM as allways!!

 

Thanks you all.

[Aginor]

Thanks, Razbam guys! :)

 

and @Fri13: No, I disagree. You are IMO posting one example of bug-using there, and two completely valid examples for high-AoA flying, and obviously only the 1% where it worked and someone made a video of it.

In real life nobody will fly a maneuver that will get you killed 99% of the time. There are always better options available.

EDIT: Apart from the fact that your chess comparison is completely wrong because in chess there is only clearly defined behaviour. Chaotic systems are also something mis-represented in simulations.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Aginor

[MethWolf]

On the contrary, chaotic systems are quite well represented in simulations and as a result simulations are the primary tool used in understanding them. That is neither here nor there, though- aerodynamics of the sort we're discussing are pretty deterministic.

 

Further, his chess simile doesn't need refutation in the first place. He's not saying "this is like chess, in chess something happens, therefore in this that something also happens." He's saying "chess is like this; in this something happens, in chess that also happens." as a way of explaining.

[Aginor]

I don't think I can agree with that.

 

With chaotic I meant how it looks like to the pilot. In such a situation a tiny difference in control input, air pressure, speed and whatnot can make HUGE differences, so you can't practice some stuff. In a simulation it is simplified that much that you can. Also you don't die or destroy a 50 million dollar air plane if you practice it. Such stuff isn't done in real life, for that reason, especially since it isn't worth it when you have other, often better options.

 

I still don't see how any example related to chess could fit here, though.

But no point in arguing I guess, since it isn't really the topic anyway.

[Etherlight]

I spotted this thread very late and just now immediately went into DCS to check the FBW Gain Emergency function. I could not even remotely reproduce this maneuver anymore, I guess that finetuning at the extreme end of the flight envelope did the trick, RAZBAM. It can definitely still perform some kind of crappy Cobra but the flip will just immediately lose you all speed and control. I tested some regular turning, too and in my experience FBW off might give you a slighty better turn for about...mh...0.23 seconds before kicking your butt into a stall without much control which makes it utterly unviable in a fight.

On the one hand: A job well done!

On the other hand: I want to be a tie-fighter D:

[Hook47]

Its an ongoing thing, and real pilots would never try such a thing. Extreme envelope maneuvers are always extremely hard to represent in a sim simply for lack of data. Even several multi million dollar grade sims did not represent extreme envelope Behaivor realistically. Heck, some of the Helicopter sims I've been in with the Army didn't even have flight models as good as the Helos in DCS. Sim aviation has reached amazing heights, so let's give Razbam credit and time.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Hook47

[Chrinik]

So we can just envy those who are willing to make these videos and willing to stay only in ED store as first rank customers.

 

Stay only in ED Store? If Steam has a massive sale on a module I don´t have, I buy it there and use the key in my standalone version.

It´s steams fault it doesn´t work the other way.

 

So it´s your fault for not switching and enjoying twice the sales. It´s like envying someone for having the balls to get up in the morning, rather then just staying in bed.