DCS. Some say, "the Gazelle is on rails."

[Holbeach]

Does the Gazelle "fly like it's on rails" as some people suggest? Let's find out. AP is off. Cyclic, pedals and trim are centred and are not used at any time. Only the collective is used, to adjust Alt.

 

..

[Hammer_nine_seven]

That doesn't look right, there is definitly something to do with the FM. Where is the collective induced yaw and pitch up movement?

 

 

Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

[exil]

Guys, i guess you made your point. No need to come up with the same story in three different threads. As i stated before, i also think that there must be something wrong with the fm, but don't take the hueys fm for the Overall reference for helicopters. Friends of mine flew huey and (so do i) think the huey is overexagurating when it comes to collective induced yaw and pitch. And as stated before for example the ch-53 also hasn't a collective induced yaw and pitch moment since the AFCS is countering it.

 

Let's just all cool down and See if polychop comes up with an solution (which i strongly believe since they always did since the Release).

[98abaile]

So that's a yes then. Kinda disappointed now.

[Necroscope]

It looks like a ground effect because of small hill on the left. This add some roll, which add some additional horizontal speed which resulted altitude increase. Hence it looks like top-notch FM for me.

...if I got the point of this topic right.

 

P.S. And yes, collective should dis-balance whole system in all 3 axis.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Necroscope

[Fredo_69]

But You got the magic SAS still on in that video:)

Turn it off and do it all again, it's just the same You see - as long as you don't touch the cyclic:cry:

 

Just so no one will TRY to explain it all with "SAS magic"...

[Whisper]

we

got

it

[Holbeach]

But You got the magic SAS still on in that video:)

Turn it off and do it all again, it's just the same You see - as long as you don't touch the cyclic:cry:

 

Just so no one will TRY to explain it all with "SAS magic"...

 

Yes I also did the same with the master pilot off and exactly the same result.

 

The big difference came with the SAS off and the gyro off.

Now I could increase the pitch from 0 deg to -4 deg and pull the collective to near the red line, which increased my stable alt. speed from 68.6 kts to 114 kts. still with centred, hands free controls, with the skids about 1' off the deck. Pulling collective had no effect on the track over the ground.

Flying with the SAS and gyro off, dramatically increased the pleasure in flying the Gazelle, so it is now my preferred condition, but would it be done IRL?

 

 

 

 

 

This thread is intended as feedback for Polychop, not as a knock.

 

..

Edited September 28, 2016 by Holbeach

[Socket7]

No controls indicator shown on a video saying the controls are not touched.

 

Not that I think you touched them, but a little thoroughness is in order if you are going to make this thread yet again.

[Holbeach]

No controls indicator shown on a video saying the controls are not touched.

 

Not that I think you touched them, but a little thoroughness is in order if you are going to make this thread yet again.

 

In the external views, pitch and roll remain at 0 deg. other than that you'll have to take my word for it, or try it yourself, it's not that hard.

 

Yep, I'll press on until I get an answer to, "can a real Gazelle do this".

 

..

[Holbeach]

Guys, i guess you made your point. No need to come up with the same story in three different threads. .

 

It's not the same story as the other threads.

It's specifically about, being able to fly S/L with no deviation and the with the controls centred and not moved.

 

This cannot be done in any helicopter.

 

The lack of collective torque change is dealt with elsewhere.

 

..

[Dingo_Bob]

being able to fly S/L with no deviation and the with the controls centred and not moved.

 

This cannot be done in any helicopter.

 

..

 

check the videos of in pit the Gazelle will fly almost hands off Straight & level, pilots only making very slight adjustments as needed for wind,

in one of the episodes, 3 or 5 can't remember, one of the senior instructors flies just by feel you can see him flying with eyes closed hands just resting loosely around the stick feeling for small changes and correcting with small touches to the stick and collective

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=174759

Edited September 28, 2016 by Dingo_Bob

[zaelu]

I think all helicopters are controlled by smooth controls almost like "thinking of them to move" but once you let go of them they will try to kill you.

 

And you can see in second movie that all augmentations are off. it's like in this clip only hands free:

 

eXR1olg_I0w

 

Notice how the instructor is saying to Destin to just think of moving the controls.

[Holbeach]

check the videos of in pit the Gazelle will fly almost hands off Straight & level, pilots only making very slight adjustments as needed for wind,

in one of the episodes, 3 or 5 can't remember, one of the senior instructors flies just by feel you can see him flying with eyes closed hands just resting loosely around the stick feeling for small changes and correcting with small touches to the stick and collective

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=174759

 

A great series there from the BBC, in the similar style to "Fighter pilots" 1981 and "Test Pilot" 1986, but I doubt the Middle Wallop pilots would be flying flat out at 3ft AGL with their hands behind their heads, which you can do in our Gazelle.

 

..

Edited September 29, 2016 by Holbeach

[Holbeach]

I think all helicopters are controlled by smooth controls almost like "thinking of them to move" but once you let go of them they will try to kill you.

 

And you can see in second movie that all augmentations are off. it's like in this clip only hands free:

 

eXR1olg_I0w

 

Notice how the instructor is saying to Destin to just think of moving the controls.

 

Despite my rather theatrical play on words at the beginning to get a response to the unrealistic Gazelle FM, there is nothing in reply, So lets press on.

 

..

[myHelljumper]

Did you fill the bug report template ?

[fjacobsen]

I remember a similar situation with the Belsim Huey.

Right after release we where also told how accurate the FM was compared to the real thing.

Afterwards the FM changed alot over the various updates.

 

The same is what we are going through now with the Gazelle.

I have no problem with this, since Polychop shows steady progress and I´m sure we will end up with a FM much more refined than the one we got now.

Regardless these inaccuracities, I still love to fly the Polychop Gazelle.

 

FinnJ

[Holbeach]

Did you fill the bug report template ?

 

What bug is that?

 

..

[Holbeach]

I remember a similar situation with the Belsim Huey.

Right after release we where also told how accurate the FM was compared to the real thing.

Afterwards the FM changed alot over the various updates.

 

The same is what we are going through now with the Gazelle.

I have no problem with this, since Polychop shows steady progress and I´m sure we will end up with a FM much more refined than the one we got now.

Regardless these inaccuracities, I still love to fly the Polychop Gazelle.

 

FinnJ

 

Yep, I'm enjoying it too.

 

Just needs a few rather obvious things tidied up.

 

..

[Mt5_Roie]

Bug template:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2780295&postcount=1

 

Fill it out and post in Bug Report section.

 

What bug is that?

 

..

[Holbeach]

Bug template:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2780295&postcount=1

 

Fill it out and post in Bug Report section.

 

When I said "what bug is that" I didn't mean what bug report, I meant, where is the bug, as I can't see any bug. It looks to me like it's working as intended.

 

I'm only interested in the question, "can a real Gazelle do this?" as a subject for discussion.

 

How does it travel at 114kts with the stick and pedals in the centre?

 

How does it maintain laser like flight path without input from the pilot?

 

Why doesn't power change affect the yaw?

 

Why doesn't power change affect the pitch?

 

How does the gyro affect the flight characteristics when the SAS is off?

 

How does it establish stable anti clock rotation with no input.

 

How does it survive -2.5 G condition.

 

Regards.

 

..

Edited October 2, 2016 by Holbeach

[Hook47]

Real world aviator here- No... No helicopter would fly like a laser with stability systems off, and hands off the controls. I've not flown the Gazelle, but I've flown helicopters of comparable size and due to atmospheric factors and physics it just wouldn't happen and I think you know as much, but if you didn't there is you answer. What this thread strikes me as is again another thread searching for a response from Polychop. The issue I have is Polychop has stated many times the FM is a work in progress. There are no SFMs for DCS helicopters, and they have to be made from the ground up. As such that takes a lot of work and time, as the physics involved are incredibly complex.

 

They are working on it, but I'm reaching a point were I am wondering if there is continued benefit on making new threads for every single issue. Filling out a bug report and posting your findings to one of the pre-existing bug threads seems like a good idea. I do find the title of this thread and video to strike me as a bit sarcastic or rhetorical

Edited October 1, 2016 by Hook47

[Socket7]

Op says he's only asking questions, but is doing so by quite blatantly demonstrating his awareness that something is not right. Reminds me of when you ask a child if they ate a slice of cake and they think you won't notice frosting smeared on their face.

 

For the amount of effort that was expended by OP on this endeavour, a useful bug report could have been created instead.

 

:dunno:

[Hook47]

Op says he's only asking questions, but is doing so by quite blatantly demonstrating his awareness that something is not right. Reminds me of when you ask a child if they ate a slice of cake and they think you won't notice frosting smeared on their face.

 

For the amount of effort that was expended by OP on this endeavour, a useful bug report could have been created instead.

 

:dunno:

 

Yea I would agree, it seems highly rhetorical... Polychop has acknowledged work needs to be done which is good enough for me, so if information like this needs to be relayed then a bug report and sending the vid to Polychop is the best course of action IMO

[Rogue Trooper]

I remember a similar situation with the Belsim Huey.

Right after release we where also told how accurate the FM was compared to the real thing.

Afterwards the FM changed alot over the various updates.

 

The same is what we are going through now with the Gazelle.

I have no problem with this, since Polychop shows steady progress and I´m sure we will end up with a FM much more refined than the one we got now.

Regardless these inaccuracities, I still love to fly the Polychop Gazelle.

 

FinnJ

 

Totally agree with this statement.

personally, I really love the Beta development stage.