yet another question of rudder pedals.

[marques]

I know that there are many question about the same topic, but the truth is that now that I´m planning to get some decent pedals to substitute the G940 set, I have several questions not easy to solve by just searching. So here I go.

My requirements are the following:

- good quality, but not killingly expensive.

- suitable for all kinds of aircraft, but mainly for helicopters.

- no problems on being sent to France, were I actually live, including no tax/import burocracy.

- No long delays in reception.

My main candidates are three:

MGF Crosswind, VKB T-Rudder and BRD-F3.

And my specific questions are the following:

- I understand Crosswind and VKB are within EU, so the price that I pay means no import fees. Can someone confirm it?

- What about Baur BRD? is the price including the import fees and administration or I will have to take care of this?

 

- Helicopter feeling. I understand that the three of them are self centering, more or less, which is not realistic for an helo, but not a gamestopper. But, what about the center? Which one is more precise or suitable for helicopters?

 

- Delays: MGF states to be delivered at the end of november, now, which is acceptable. But, what about the other two? VKB says in their page that they have stock, so I assume inmediate delibery, and no clue about Baur.

 

My preferences now are crosswind, baur and VKB, for that order, as Baur is not much cheaper than crosswind, but importation problems in a country (France) that I don´t know well scares me. And lastly, VKB is the most helicopter looking and the cheapest of the three, but it has no brakes for aircrafts.

Any othe sugestion, comment or any othe model that I should take into account?

thanks!

[Sokol1_br]

- Helicopter feeling. I understand that the three of them are self centering, more or less, which is not realistic for an helo, but not a gamestopper. But, what about the center? Which one is more precise or suitable for helicopters?

 

All 3 models have 2 or more CAM profile options, one with more or less "free center", suitable for helicopters. But all have return to center spring.

 

A pedal without spring need a retain in position system (a damper or a kind of brake), for this looks for Komodo.

[Lt.Stich]

I believe you will not have a problem with BRD rudder in customs. Bauer supplies around the world. Received my in Germany, everything was ok, i took my from customs. The price still very competitive vs MGF and VKB. The only watch out is busyness of the Bauer with the current orders :) Good luck with the choice.

[dburne]

I can only speak for the Crosswinds, I have been using them since Dec of last year and absolutely love them. And so far I am flying exclusively the KA-50 in DCS. They made a big difference for me in my flying.

 

They are so customizable in the adjustment department you can really tweak them to get a good feel. Different cams, spring adjustments, etc. He has some good videos on his website showcasing all the adjustments.

And Milan's communication and support is excellent.

 

I am sure the Baur's are very good as well.

[Sporg]

There are also Slaw Device pedals.

 

A damper can be installed on these as well as on some of the Baur types.

 

If you remove the centering spring, you can have a good setup with no centering forces at all.

 

Slaw pedals also come with a soft center cam as well as a hard center one, and I believe Baur's do the same.

[rrohde]

Moved from the VKB T-Rudders MkIII to the Baur BRD-MS3 pedals, simply because realized that I could not live without toe-brakes after all.

 

Both are made from heavy duty metal and are sturdy as can be.

 

Both are excellent in quality and functionality, however, the Baur BRDs are much wider and thus a lot more comfortable to use and thus more realistic in the overall movement of the pedals; they feel as if they got ripped from actual plane.

 

My Baur BRD-MS3 come with two different strength centering springs, which has more of an impact when pressing down on the pedals (more resistance as you go with the stronger spring) than on the actual centering, as the cam has a rather soft center.

 

Love the Baur BRDs; shipping from Sochi/Russia to the US only took 9 days. Got a little thread going here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=173100

[JLX]

One of the most important thing for me when deciding was how I like to articulate the pedals. Keep in mind I fly mostly helos.

 

When I had my CH pedals, I used to curl my toes around the little lip at the back that keeps your heel in place. Sounds odd I know. But it's because I found that operating the pedals with my heels fixed and just moving my toes was far more precise than pushing my whole leg forward. And precision is far more important with helos as I'm sure you know.

 

The VKB T-Rudders (like other helo-like pedals that don't have toe brakes) are designed to work this way and this alone put them easily at the top of my list.

 

My point is that at the top of the pedal spectrum (which you are considering) build quality and spring/cam options are good across all the different models. I feels the big deciding factor is ergonomics and that is very much a personal style decision.

 

 

 

Sent from my tablet using Tapatalk.

[hansangb]

Komodo also has Huey replica rudders. The cyclic and the collective takes a long time to ship, but rudders may be different.

[Abburo]

OP request put VKB in first position 100%. (price/helo/quality - in this order)

 

I own an MFG and I am extreamly pleased (quality/price/versatility in future - in this order)

[Sokol1_br]

FSC (Netherlands) has VKB T-Rudder Mk.IV in stock. Is 197 € + VAT 21%.

 

https://flightsimcontrols.com/store/pedals/vkb-t-rudder-pedals-mk-iv/

 

BAUR BRD-F3 will fill the helicopter heel on floor pilotage:

 

http://i.imgur.com/iCNWbcX.jpg

 

BRD-MS1 (2) Kamov is too suitable, cost around ~200$ shipped to Europe, but this model don't have brakes.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/uploads/monthly_08_2016/post-2357-0-67578400-1471201198.jpg

 

BTW - Despite the look suggesting a circular movement, their operation is like in most other pedals, "pantograph", the foot rest angle don't change.

 

EDIT - Not sure, but think you can get both of the above foot rest for the same pedal for extra cost, ask BAUR.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[SYN_Skydance]

Can't fault the MFGs. Highly recommended.

[marques]

Gents, thanks a lot.

I think I´m almost decided between crosswind and VKB.

Baur looks really good, and I love the idea of it´s builder, but I don´t speak french well, this is not my country and a slight problem in the customs process would be a pia for me.

The other options, specially komodo or slaw are far more expensive, so they are discarded from the begining.

 

So finally, the only thing to decide is "to brake or not to brake, that is the question".

[marques]

Baur is Russian, not French. And he's very easy to communicate with. Also I had no issues with customs when I ordered my set, nor has anyone else I know who bought them.

I know, I know. The problem is not Baur, but me. I´m temporarily living in France, so what I´m fearing is the french customs bureocracy.

I know how this things works in Spain, my country, but I have no idea how they work in France. I don´t know if I have to pick them up in a custom office, how they communicate, how are they cleared, etc...

[Schnelli]

Can you give us an update? What was your decision? :)

[Barefoot Bandit]

Gents, thanks a lot.

I think I´m almost decided between crosswind and VKB.

Baur looks really good, and I love the idea of it´s builder, but I don´t speak french well, this is not my country and a slight problem in the customs process would be a pia for me.

The other options, specially komodo or slaw are far more expensive, so they are discarded from the begining.

 

So finally, the only thing to decide is "to brake or not to brake, that is the question".

 

I bought a set of the Baur F-3's in January. They are sensational, and Baur is very easy to communicate with - Google translate is a wonderful thing, and he knows how to use it - so you don't need to.

 

I'm not sure what customs issues you're worried about, but I suspect it won't make much difference, as they are all a set of rudder pedals, just shipped from different locations.

 

I also bought mine not assembled. For anyone that has some basic tools, and enjoys putting things together to see how they work, I highly recommend this option, otherwise, buy it assembled.

 

I also have the VKB T-rudder MKIII. They are very nice, very accurate, but no toe brakes. What they are, however, is very good for "office chair" type set ups. IT's a very nice set of pedals for the money. If you want toe brakes, though, Baur's pedals are well worth it.

 

Z...

[Schnelli]

Do you know what's the difference between the F-3s and the F-1/F-2s? Which is better and which is more expensive?

[marques]

Can you give us an update? What was your decision? :)

 

Curious that you ask precisely now, Schnelli, because just today I received te email from Milan, MFG, saying that my new pedals are on the hands of the post service. I expect to review them as soon as I receive them, in few days.

 

I bought a set of the Baur F-3's in January. They are sensational, and Baur is very easy to communicate with - Google translate is a wonderful thing, and he knows how to use it - so you don't need to.

 

I'm not sure what customs issues you're worried about, but I suspect it won't make much difference, as they are all a set of rudder pedals, just shipped from different locations.

 

I also bought mine not assembled. For anyone that has some basic tools, and enjoys putting things together to see how they work, I highly recommend this option, otherwise, buy it assembled.

 

I also have the VKB T-rudder MKIII. They are very nice, very accurate, but no toe brakes. What they are, however, is very good for "office chair" type set ups. IT's a very nice set of pedals for the money. If you want toe brakes, though, Baur's pedals are well worth it.

 

Z...

Barefoot, the difference is huge. MFG sells within the European Union which is, in practical terms as my own country. No customs fees or clearances.

The Russian brands, or any other non EU, sells from outside EU. That means that you costumer have to pay customs, etc... this is not necessarily automatic, and normally you need a customs agent (another fee). In my country I know perfectly how to do it, and the things that can possibly complicate the process. In France I don't know it, and I don't know their laws or even French. If something happens, it'd be a PITA to solve it for me. And things can be pretty nasty fairly quick with those things.

[Sokol1_br]

Think that Baur or Slaw pedal is better than MFG or vice versa is nonsense, they are all is same class, with similar mechanics and electronics, so get the one more convenient/affordable to buy for you. ;)

 

Baur (some models) and Slaw allow easy installation of motorcycle damper, so consider this as plus point if want damper effect.

 

Some people are biased with MFG frame composite construction - they call "plastic", but this (strong) material has the advantage that at long term will not rust or peel paint. :)

[Schnelli]

MFG sells within the European Union which is, in practical terms as my own country. No customs fees or clearances.

The Russian brands, or any other non EU, sells from outside EU. That means that you costumer have to pay customs, etc... this is not necessarily automatic, and normally you need a customs agent (another fee)

So without shipping and customs the BAURs are something like 280$, which is something like 260€. MFGs are 320€ and 337€ with shipping. I live in Germany, so the situation is almost the same. Do make the customs and shipping the BAURs actually more expensive for me? :(

[marques]

So without shipping and customs the BAURs are something like 280$, which is something like 260€. MFGs are 320€ and 337€ with shipping. I live in Germany, so the situation is almost the same. Do make the customs and shipping the BAURs actually more expensive for me? :(

 

No, I don't think so. Actually, if you buy MFG from Germany you will pay taxes (vat). As I said, my problem ya not the price (MFG is the most expensive of my options) but the fear of having an issue with the French customs, that are unknown to me.

[smallberries]

I just ordered Crosswinds. The biggest reason for me, over Slaw (I did prefer the all metal construction) was I needed the Crosswinds' more horizontal pedals, rather than the Slaw's more vertical design, because I have a small space to work with and can't stretch out my legs very far.

[Rogue Trooper]

The biggest problem with DCS is choice.

At the moment this is the strongest draw they got... that and superb modelling.

 

 

If you feel that choppers are the strongest draw, then go for the pedals that have the most benefit to choppers at the price you want.

 

 

personally, I could not decide what I wanted so I went for the best compromise, the Crosswinds. Choppers were my main need.

They seemed to offer superb adjustability whilst allowing instant adjustment for jets and fighters.

 

 

Choppers are king here mate.

All jets and props came and went but none offered interest to me.... those airframes just go round in circles to achieve their objectives!?!

I started to wish I got pedals more dedicated to choppers.

 

 

Then came the Viggen and this airframe pulled me back to my original pedal requirements..... compromise.... perfect.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Rogue Trooper

[Barefoot Bandit]

Think that Baur or Slaw pedal is better than MFG or vice versa is nonsense, they are all is same class, with similar mechanics and electronics, so get the one more convenient/affordable to buy for you. ;)

 

Baur (some models) and Slaw allow easy installation of motorcycle damper, so consider this as plus point if want damper effect.

 

Some people are biased with MFG frame composite construction - they call "plastic", but this (strong) material has the advantage that at long term will not rust or peel paint. :)

 

There is certainly nothing wrong with a high quality plastic. It was Baur's ingenius design of the F3 that won me in the end over the MFG. Honestly, to me all 3 look like a great long term purchase, just need to work out which best suits your needs. For me, it was Baur's F3. For my second rig, it's actually the VKB. Couldn't be happier!

 

Z...

[Barefoot Bandit]

Curious that you ask precisely now, Schnelli, because just today I received te email from Milan, MFG, saying that my new pedals are on the hands of the post service. I expect to review them as soon as I receive them, in few days.

 

 

Barefoot, the difference is huge. MFG sells within the European Union which is, in practical terms as my own country. No customs fees or clearances.

The Russian brands, or any other non EU, sells from outside EU. That means that you costumer have to pay customs, etc... this is not necessarily automatic, and normally you need a customs agent (another fee). In my country I know perfectly how to do it, and the things that can possibly complicate the process. In France I don't know it, and I don't know their laws or even French. If something happens, it'd be a PITA to solve it for me. And things can be pretty nasty fairly quick with those things.

 

OK - though not sure why France has anything to do with it, or, do you live in France at the moment?

 

Z...

[Bearfoot]

There is certainly nothing wrong with a high quality plastic. It was Baur's ingenius design of the F3 that won me in the end over the MFG. Honestly, to me all 3 look like a great long term purchase, just need to work out which best suits your needs. For me, it was Baur's F3. For my second rig, it's actually the VKB. Couldn't be happier!

 

Z...

 

Just me being pedantic, BUT ...

 

It's not plastic, but (mostly) paper!

 

Well, to be more accurate: HPL, which is many layers of paper and phenolic resin (IIRC), compressed under very intense heat and pressure. Final material is very, very, very strong and sturdy, though has to be 30% thicker to have the equivalent strength of metal. Advantage of avoiding metal: no interference with magnetic fields/sensors.

 

To me, it has got a pleasant "wood" feel/quality to it, both in heft as well as in touch. Much nicer than plastic.