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Rift, Vive, or wait?


Boris
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I'm thinking about getting a VR headset for DCS but I'm not sure which one to get, or whether I should get one at all at his stage.

 

Is there a better headset coming out that's worth waiting for? I'm concerned with the low resolutions of the Rift and the Vive and wouldn't be very happy if a better headset comes along only months after my purchase.

PC Specs / Hardware: MSI z370 Gaming Plus Mainboard, Intel 8700k @ 5GHz, MSI Sea Hawk 2080 Ti @ 2100MHz, 32GB 3200 MHz DDR4 RAM

Displays: Philips BDM4065UC 60Hz 4K UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX

Controllers / Peripherals: VPC MongoosT-50, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, modded MS FFB2/CH Combatstick, MFG Crosswind Pedals, Gametrix JetSeat

OS: Windows 10 Home Creator's Update

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I have heard that the Rift is better than the Vive for DCS, I only have the rift and cannot make comparisons. There is the start of price reductions and someone posted a link to one for £500 which is down £50. I love the rift and would not be without it now for flying. I dont imagine CV2 will hit the shelves this year though I ma be wrong. FWIW get a rift and you will not be disappointed:)

i5 8600k@5.2Ghz, Asus Prime A Z370, 32Gb DDR4 3000, GTX1080 SC, Oculus Rift CV1, Modded TM Warthog Modded X52 Collective, Jetseat, W10 Pro 64

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hi Boris,

 

Okay new rift owner got it last Friday whilst back home from working away from home if that makes sense. I spent the weekend flying Huey and Gazelle. :helpsmilie:

 

Here's my initial comment

 

The resolution well, sure it could be better but the situational awareness that the rift gives and the freedom of looking wherever the heck you want is fantastic. As has been said it is difficult to explain. setting controls and switches is different but I don't really do much of that just enjoy flying. :thumbup:

 

So here is another attempt.

 

I get the hold off something new might be just around the corner thing but for me I figured I could be waiting and thinking the same thing when the rift comes out at 2K resolution, for me that doesn't matter I will have had enjoyment form the current unit.

 

I also have to add I have only used it on DCS 2.04 and NTTR and it works awesomely, my PC specs are very similar to yours and I am sure the experience would be similar on Vive but can't say as I don't have experience with Vive.

 

HTH

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Having flown with both id say go with the rift, the image clarity and sweet spot is just much better than the Vive's.

 

Ive had mine for about 2 weeks now and i couldnt be happier. I just dont care about the little low res and other shortcomings ive had. I wake up every morning and the first thing i do after breakfast and coffee is to take the Huey out for a spin. Its just pure joy! If i knew the next gen comes in 4 months id still be happy with the purchase, its a dream come true.

1080 ti, i7700k 5ghz, 16gb 3600 cl14 ddr4 oc

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As a vive owner id say if you want vr only for dcs, get the rift! The vive got way better in last months than it was before...its really enjoyable! But...the rift is always a little ahead when it comes to updates or new functions...

Im a big fan of vr and also like to try other games, so I had to go with the vive, the motion tracking and controllers are much better compared to the rift ones...but that's like all just my opinion ;)

So id say...for vr experience overall get the vive...and if you plan just using it for simulators, get the rift!

Oh ...and waiting is of course no option, believe me...you definitely won't regret getting vr as flightsimmer!

i7 6700k @ 4,5 Ghz | MSI 1080ti Aero | 32 GB RAM 2133 | 500 GB SSD | TM Warthog | MFG Crosswind | HTC Vive |:pilotfly:

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I've had the Rift since DK1 days and had the DK2 and CV1 for some time now. I've also experienced the VIVE too so think I can make an authoritative opinion on this. The resolution on both the CV1 and VIVE are almost like for like though the optics on the Rift I'd argue are better. In terms of comfort for long stints I'd choose the rift over the VIVE. However to return to your question as to whether or not to get one now or wait. If I'm honest with myself I would say to wait for the next generation as the resolutions just isn't quite there to really use it in DCS with any real accuracy and certainly not in combat as trying to locate a target on the deck is a challenge just in a normal screen but in VR it's almost impossible without some pretty major tweaks and even then, you're still fumbling in the dark. However what it IS really good for is immersion so if that's what you're looking for then fill your boots and get a CV1/VIVE as they really are on par. There is a 4K VR set out there but it has a major flaw in that it has limited DoF but what it lacks in that is resolution as you'd expect with 4K. Don't be fooled though, it also is not supported in DCS as of yet and there are forum members with the headset struggling to get it working so be warned.

 

VIVE2.0 is due out this yeah I believe with minor improvements to resolution but IMHO the increase is still not going to be good enough. No word from Oculus for CV2 so we don't know the spec there but I have a feeling with the backing from Facebook it will be a pretty decent improvement though at a cost premium.

 

My recommendation, beg, borrow a CV1 first as the novelty does wear off after a while.

EVGA GTX1080TISC2 Black Hybrid Cooler, Asus Strix X399, Water cooled ThreadRipper 1920X, Dominator 32GB 3200Mhz,NVME Samsung 250/500GB SSDs, Corsair Air 740 case, Acer Predator 34' Gsync curved display + 3x Alienware 23inch 120hz monitors. TM HOTAS, RAZER - Tiamat,Blackwidow, Mamba, Tartarus and Oculus Rift CV1/DK2 + TrackIR5, MFG crosswinds

 

Oh and a very understanding wife.

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trying to locate a target on the deck is a challenge just in a normal screen but in VR it's almost impossible without some pretty major tweaks and even then, you're still fumbling in the dark

 

This is what I'm afraid of and the main reason I want to wait for the next gen VR headsets. After doing a bit of reading however, I'm not so sure that we're going to see them in this year. Does anyone have any info on this?

 

Still, I find it very difficult to spot aircraft even with a 40 inch 4k screen, so maybe this is not just a VR thing?

PC Specs / Hardware: MSI z370 Gaming Plus Mainboard, Intel 8700k @ 5GHz, MSI Sea Hawk 2080 Ti @ 2100MHz, 32GB 3200 MHz DDR4 RAM

Displays: Philips BDM4065UC 60Hz 4K UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX

Controllers / Peripherals: VPC MongoosT-50, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, modded MS FFB2/CH Combatstick, MFG Crosswind Pedals, Gametrix JetSeat

OS: Windows 10 Home Creator's Update

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This is what I'm afraid of and the main reason I want to wait for the next gen VR headsets. After doing a bit of reading however, I'm not so sure that we're going to see them in this year. Does anyone have any info on this?

 

Still, I find it very difficult to spot aircraft even with a 40 inch 4k screen, so maybe this is not just a VR thing?

It is difficult in real live also.

I have completed campaigns for ka50, a10, huey, mig29 and so on.. Have some a2a kills in blue flag and a lot of SP successful air combat. Also a lot of MP with huey with 229th. All this in rift CV1 and even some with dk2. Never used any labels and spoting targets was no harder than with my old 32 tv. I can never go back to the tv again it is night and day. Like returning to 14inch crt from 52 4k led...

I would not wait definitely, rift or vive I dont know I would go for the rift as it is better supported in dcs.

 

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This is what I'm afraid of and the main reason I want to wait for the next gen VR headsets. After doing a bit of reading however, I'm not so sure that we're going to see them in this year. Does anyone have any info on this?

 

Still, I find it very difficult to spot aircraft even with a 40 inch 4k screen, so maybe this is not just a VR thing?

 

We will definitely not be getting a new Generation within the year. Oculus has stated that they want their release schedule to be longer than cell phones, but faster than current consoles. So more like Every 2-3 years in my opinion. The tech is gaining popularity right now and moving quick so that's a good sign, but it will be at minimum another year before we see a CV2 even teased in my opinion. The other possibility is a new company coming in with a higher end headset before Oculus or HTC release a new one themselves.

 

There is actually no Vive 2.0 due out this year, there hasn't been one teased, unless there's some insider information recently released that I've somehow missed, there's been no announcements for a Vive 2.0 that I've seen. There is a lot of new accessories coming out for it though, like a rigid headstrap (like the Rifts) and a wireless add-on kit. Also the 4k VR HMD (Pimax) isn't actually 4k. The screen in it is in fact 4k, but it splits it in half to use 1 screen for both eyes, and the real problem is the chip driving the screen actually only drives 1080p. So it does at least solve the screen door effect problem, but you're actually getting a lower resolution than the Rift/Vive.

 

I believe the spotting has a little to do with VR resolution/screen-door effect and also with DCS itself. I can hardly spot ground targets on my 4k monitor as well, however, air targets are significantly easier to spot in VR than my monitor due to the sense of distance you can get in VR. It's a matter of tradeoffs, nothing will be quite as clear but estimating distances, and all that fun stuff is worlds easier.

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It is difficult in real live also.

I have completed campaigns for ka50, a10, huey, mig29 and so on.. Have some a2a kills in blue flag and a lot of SP successful air combat. Also a lot of MP with huey with 229th. All this in rift CV1 and even some with dk2. Never used any labels and spoting targets was no harder than with my old 32 tv. I can never go back to the tv again it is night and day. Like returning to 14inch crt from 52 4k led...

I would not wait definitely, rift or vive I dont know I would go for the rift as it is better supported in dcs.

 

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

I agree , i have rift too and its quite ok for spotting, not harder than my 2560x1440 monitor. Somehow its even easier, maybe because with rift i always "know" where they are in 3D space , cant explain it with my limited English.

 

 

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Oculus CV1, Odyssey, Pimax 5k+ (i5 8400, 24gb ddr4 3000mhz, 1080Ti OC )

 

 

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I also have to add I have only used it on DCS 2.04 and NTTR and it works awesomely, my PC specs are very similar to yours and I am sure the experience would be similar on Vive but can't say as I don't have experience with Vive.

 

HTH

 

It's not quite as good on the Vive, because for some weird reason 2.0 doesn't have full Vive support even though 1.5 does. The pixel density slider does nothing for the Vive in 2.0 for some reason, so everything is super blurry in 2.04, but I can run 1.5 at a pixel density of 2.0x and still get a consistent 45fps while everything looks great. Also now that the Vive has essentially ATW 45fps is pretty smooth too.

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I wil not trying to compare VR with 4K large screen 40" to 43" which is sweet spot for use it 4KTV as monitor for work and gaming. Both solutions need simmilar hardware for support and cost around the same but philosophy of their advantages are completely opposite. 4K goes on high details and VR goer on realistic and immersive 3D so all this what someone prefers is individual and subjective.

 

VR is actually secondary display and only for gaming and it is not cheep so doubt about "should I get it or not" are legitimate. So I will just give you some facts about VR in general without favoring one individual product at all.

 

In essence Rift made some standard here but there is no general standard in VR at all that is the reason why something working Good on Rift not working that good on other VR's. This is specially affecting OSVR and Pimax 4K which are basically have better hardware but have problems because most of the standards trying to search Rift or Vive but not just standardized VR. This lack of general VR standards forcing us to choze inferiour product for high prize what in essence CV1 is. Why? I will try to explain it now.

 

CV1 using HDMI 1.4 and two screens with low PPI comparing it with Pimax. Pimax prove that 4K screen with 806PPI don't have SDE and even with out rezolution of 1280x1440 per eye give much better results than CV1 for 200$ less. Problem is Rift standards because of which OSVR and Pimax don't work properly especially in tracking so for this 200$ less and some benefits be ready to constant tweaking and updating and manually optimizing if you always reach satisfied results at all.

Today we can see that CV1 is fail in some area but we are forced tu use this failed trail not real product because they have to exit and establish standards for future market. They already could put some half product CV2 out in version with 1280x1440 per eye on 700PPI combined with already existing CV1 hardware will give much better results than it is now almost without SDE removing plastic filter which reducing SDE now but blurring picture. Such display connected true DP 1.4 standard already exist in Chines 3glasses VR. Pimax 4K already working on connecting true DP as well which will allow full 4K resolution in 60Hz what they will use in new Pimax 8K (4K per eye with over 200° FOV. But the real star here is StarVR which will implement some new technologies and will be real improvement and new standards in VR.

 

All this showing direction where VR is moving and I believe Oculus already have something similar but also need to sell all stock of CV1 too so there is why they don't really announcing anything about future plans. First we will have droping price of CV1 in two reasons. Competition is better and better and initial balloon of gadget freaks are almost empy now and rift will be come more affordable especially if competition as OSVR and Pimax make some significant improvements.

 

How strong are this competition? OSVR is open source but right now I don't see any benefit from it at all and didn't see that something happened there at all. Right not to me looks like they burned out copying Rift/Vive direction with dual display with similar specs. There is no new things since release of HDK2 even on forum nothing happened at all. Pimax is small company with limited resources and even with good ideas they need a lot to even smallest improvement need lot of time but they are doing their best what is just simpatico but not productive.

That is the reason why Oculust and HTC will forcing they half product for long time.

 

Future?

Future is really bright because we already have technologies available to create 4K per eye VR without SDE which will be less hardware demanding and will work better than now. We will get two new axis which will tracking eye movement what will have two benefit. We will get natural movement without back pain when you check your six. We will use that tehnology also to send data to the GPU which will fully rendering just focused part of the picture and peripheral view field wil be rendered in lower quality whot we will not noticed at all because our vision work in similar way in nature. Right now we are rendering in full quality whole picture full FOV and simulating motion and periferal vision with adding bluer which is not realistic and wasting GPU resources.

 

So check it out by your self and I believe we could have such VR in next two years max especially StarVR is now sponsored by IMAX an we all know who they are.

 

 

http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-pimaxs-8k-headset-proves-high-fov-vr-coming/

http://www.roadtovr.com/starvr-interview-starbreeze-cto-emmanuel-marquez-e3-2016/

http://www.arvrmagazine.com/chinas-3glasses-launches-new-blubur-s1-headset/

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The Rift, and things will only get better as Wags and crew keep releasing VR enhancements for this generation of VR. Its just so hard to imagine flying on a 55inch 4k again once you go vr.

 

This is Hardware issue not DCS. DCS already work perfectly in VR.

Try it with GearVR. Better experience than Rift if use Hi quality mobile with 2560x1440 530PPI display and USB 3.0 standard like for example LG G5 and all this in direct mode using DCS 3D in VR.

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This is Hardware issue not DCS. DCS already work perfectly in VR.

Try it with GearVR. Better experience than Rift if use Hi quality mobile with 2560x1440 530PPI display and USB 3.0 standard like for example LG G5 and all this in direct mode using DCS 3D in VR.

 

Dcs is good but it still needs some more maturing in regards to VR.

Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S

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It's not quite as good on the Vive, because for some weird reason 2.0 doesn't have full Vive support even though 1.5 does. The pixel density slider does nothing for the Vive in 2.0 for some reason, so everything is super blurry in 2.04, but I can run 1.5 at a pixel density of 2.0x and still get a consistent 45fps while everything looks great. Also now that the Vive has essentially ATW 45fps is pretty smooth too.

 

Thanks good to know. :thumbup:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Thanks for all you answers so far. I'm giving the Rift some serious consideration now. As nothing significantly new will likely hit the market this year, I think it's a goer.

PC Specs / Hardware: MSI z370 Gaming Plus Mainboard, Intel 8700k @ 5GHz, MSI Sea Hawk 2080 Ti @ 2100MHz, 32GB 3200 MHz DDR4 RAM

Displays: Philips BDM4065UC 60Hz 4K UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX

Controllers / Peripherals: VPC MongoosT-50, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, modded MS FFB2/CH Combatstick, MFG Crosswind Pedals, Gametrix JetSeat

OS: Windows 10 Home Creator's Update

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Thanks for all you answers so far. I'm giving the Rift some serious consideration now. As nothing significantly new will likely hit the market this year, I think it's a goer.

 

The sense of immersion and visceral feel that it brings is very difficult to explain adequately, if your experience is anything like mine it will be difficult to drag you away from flying on DCS. :thumbup:

 

I also worked out you can break the tail clean off the Gazelle, but thats another story. :music_whistling:


Edited by FragBum
typo

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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For now only rift and Vive will give you true working 6dof in dcs, pixmax or Google cardboard wont and thats no go for me.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oculus CV1, Odyssey, Pimax 5k+ (i5 8400, 24gb ddr4 3000mhz, 1080Ti OC )

 

 

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I just read that Oculus has lost the lawsuit against Zenimax. Apparently they now want to stop oculus from selling the rift?

PC Specs / Hardware: MSI z370 Gaming Plus Mainboard, Intel 8700k @ 5GHz, MSI Sea Hawk 2080 Ti @ 2100MHz, 32GB 3200 MHz DDR4 RAM

Displays: Philips BDM4065UC 60Hz 4K UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX

Controllers / Peripherals: VPC MongoosT-50, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, modded MS FFB2/CH Combatstick, MFG Crosswind Pedals, Gametrix JetSeat

OS: Windows 10 Home Creator's Update

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For now only rift and Vive will give you true working 6dof in dcs, pixmax or Google cardboard wont and thats no go for me.

 

For me is more wait then rush to buy half-product who will be outdated soon or competition will fix some of their problems for significantly lower price.

 

Pimax is 3DoF but you can use opentrack and pimax there is recognized as Rift runtime 0.4.2 so you can set up pseudo 6DoF who in DCS completely can fool you and give you 6DoF feeling.

 

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I just read that Oculus has lost the lawsuit against Zenimax. Apparently they now want to stop oculus from selling the rift?

 

That's good. This could lead finally to break Oculus monopoly on VR standards.

That will lead to better competition and more realistic and lower prices. :thumbup:

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For me is more wait then rush to buy half-product who will be outdated soon or competition will fix some of their problems for significantly lower price.

 

Pimax is 3DoF but you can use opentrack and pimax there is recognized as Rift runtime 0.4.2 so you can set up pseudo 6DoF who in DCS completely can fool you and give you 6DoF feeling.

 

Well cv1 is out for about an year and dk2 for more than 2. It will be no less than another year for next gen headset. If this is "soon" no thanks.

I enjoy what we have now and will certainly enjoy next gen and the one after etc..

When the 2nd generation comes you can decide to wait for 3rd and this can be forever :)

 

 

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