The Harrier official campaign thread

[Revelation]

Sooo... there won't be a campaign included in the module. Correct?

 

There will be a campaign that is part of the module, it just won't be available right away. Baltic has plans for additional payware campaigns as well.

[javelina1]

Where's the Tarawa going to sail?

[sze5003]

Bought the harrier, excited for the training missions whenever they will come. Will be more than happy to help test/do voiceovers :)

[baltic_dragon]

Sooo... there won't be a campaign included in the module. Correct?

 

There won’t be a full campaign with the module, but an extensive set of training missions and some single missions (also available for MP). There are many reasons for that (lack of built in campaign) which I don’t want to delve into, but the bottom line is that with the DLC you will get a much better quality end product (you will see what I mean soon when I finish the Red Flag for M-2000C). So I hope in the end everyone will be happy with that!

 

There will be a campaign that is part of the module, it just won't be available right away. Baltic has plans for additional payware campaigns as well.

 

See above, only training which I will try to make as entertaining and lively as possible!

 

Where's the Tarawa going to sail?

 

For training and the first campaign in the Caucasus. Second campaign (if there is a demand for one) in Strait of Hormuz.

 

Bought the harrier, excited for the training missions whenever they will come. Will be more than happy to help test/do voiceovers :)

 

Many thanks, will be in touch! Also I think I will be releasing them one by one as soon as they are ready, first as open beta versions to get all your comments and then finishing them and moving on. That way you will get your hands on them much earlier!

[_schepper_]

Training missions in multiplayer? :)

or just the singel missions

 

I would love to see a training mission that i can do with a friend of my in mp, that i can take off in cold start from a ship... do some air refule with the new MC-130J and just land again on the ship together :)

 

Really need to deep myself in to making something in the mission editor... but the time i find for sim.. i am flying :D

 

Greets

 

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i7 2600K oc 4.7g / asus gtx 1080 gaming x+ / 16gig ram / ssd 500gig / oculus rift / jetseat se / saitek rudder ((next upgrade)mfg crosswind) / logitech warthog hotas + 20cm extention

[Davee]

Where's the Tarawa going to sail?

 

Perhaps Lake Mead on the Nevada map? :)

[javelina1]

Perhaps Lake Mead on the Nevada map? :)

 

I thought of that! ;):megalol:

 

Just thinking of the shore leave too... man, weekends in Vegas... oh those boys are going to have some fun.

[baltic_dragon]

Haha being able to place Tarawa on the lake would be cool :) but simce we can’t I think training in Caucasus will make more sense :)

 

MP training missions? haven’t thought about it, but why not?

[sze5003]

Yea the Caucus seems like the right map for carrier landings. Putting a carrier in that lake would be like trying to land the AV8 on a flatbed truck haha. I'm not sure if when the alpha starts we will have any available missions besides maybe a manual so we could start it up at least. But I know from your mirage/A10 training missions I pretty much learned everything I needed to know to be effective. I really don't know if I would be so engaged in learning these aircraft without your missions so I'll be very much looking forward to them.

[CheckGear]

In the real world, Harrier II training takes place at MCAS Cherry Point. Making a map just for it would be redundant, so Nevada is the only choice for training.

 

As for an actual campaign, the Strait of Hormuz is most ideal for the Harrier; let me pitch the following scenario:

 

Fall 1996. In response to their verified involvement in the Khobar Towers bombing in June of that year which killed 19 American servicemembers, President Clinton has ordered retaliatory strikes on Iranian military targets in and along the Strait of Hormuz. The strikes fail to register their intended effect and Iran responds with belligerent and reckless activity in the Strait and terrorist action throughout the Middle East.

 

Clinton decides to escalate and orders the seizure of Abu Musa Island, which has become heavily fortified in recent years with land-based missiles and hosts Revolutionary Guard naval forces. Citing the risks posed to both commercial shipping and U.S./Coalition military forces, the 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit, embarked with the USS Tarawa Amphibious Ready Group, is tasked with conducting an amphibious assault on the island. The AV-8Bs of the ARG are tasked with providing close air support for the Marines making the landing, while additional protection for the operation is provided by the aircraft and surface ships of the Carl Vinson and Enterprise battle groups.

[baltic_dragon]

SoH is defintely on my radar, though I have a storyline ready that will be featured in the upcoming M-2000C Red Flag and A-10C Iron Flag campaigns.

 

As for the training affer having talked to some people who are in active service with the USMC I am more and more inclined to do the training in Nevada (which may later be ported to Caucasus) as it would be much more realistic (and would respond to the outcome of the poll).

[bart]

As for the training affer having talked to some people who are in active service with the USMC I am more and more inclined to do the training in Nevada (which may later be ported to Caucasus) as it would be much more realistic (and would respond to the outcome of the poll).

 

 

[Ganesh]

As for the training affer having talked to some people who are in active service with the USMC I am more and more inclined to do the training in Nevada (which may later be ported to Caucasus) as it would be much more realistic (and would respond to the outcome of the poll).

Agree, that makes sense!

 

Training in dry areas,

action in wet territory :D

[sze5003]

Agree, that makes sense!

 

Training in dry areas,

action in wet territory :D

That's what she said :)

[CheckGear]

What'd I love to see is a campaign in which you can play the role of different units in a mission.

 

For example, in my "Seize Abu Musa Island" scenario in the Strait of Hormuz, you could either play as an AV-8B flying CAS, a UH-1N commanding Marines during the landing and providing CloserAS, F/A-18C(N)s flying from a carrier providing cover from higher up, and eventually, F-14A/Bs flying CAP for the entire assault.

[Rex854Warrior]

MP training missions? haven’t thought about it, but why not?

 

That would be great ! Coop campaigns would be really nice too.

[baltic_dragon]

What'd I love to see is a campaign in which you can play the role of different units in a mission.

 

For example, in my "Seize Abu Musa Island" scenario in the Strait of Hormuz, you could either play as an AV-8B flying CAS, a UH-1N commanding Marines during the landing and providing CloserAS, F/A-18C(N)s flying from a carrier providing cover from higher up, and eventually, F-14A/Bs flying CAP for the entire assault.

 

That wouldn’t really work for DLC campaign where you’d have to have all the modules just to be able to launch it. Plus it would be an awful amount of extra work, better to do four separate campaigns in the same conflict / scenario.

 

Personally, I prefer to deliver more story-driven and immersive campaigns where you really feel involved in what is happening.

 

Having said all that, your idea would be perfect for an advanced MP mission scenario, something we can think about!

[The_Dan]

If EA or some publisher would sell an DLC where you have to buy other DLC to play the "tutorial" (training missions), they would probably get a shitstorm. I have the Nevada map but please think of the people who don't have it and include the rudimentary functions of a module (like the training missions) in the base game, without the need of additional "DLC". If you want training missions in Nevada, i would suggest you add these after the training missions in caucasus and not vice versa.

 

I agree that training in Nevada is by far more realistic and so on. The training for the WWII planes is more realistic in Normandy (with Assets Pack), maybe in the future we will have a clutter were the different modules will have spread their training over every possible map and we need to have different assets packs to play the training missions. I think that won't be the best advertising for DCS and the modules.

 

This is my opinion and i'm fine with it what ever you do, but maybe you mind the people who don't want to buy every map (i for myself will buy every coming map sooner or later :D ) to be able to do the training missions of a module they bought.

 

PS: I think your campaigns are great and i'm very excited about your upcoming work.

[baltic_dragon]

If EA or some publisher would sell an DLC where you have to buy other DLC to play the "tutorial" (training missions), they would probably get a shitstorm. I have the Nevada map but please think of the people who don't have it and include the rudimentary functions of a module (like the training missions) in the base game, without the need of additional "DLC". If you want training missions in Nevada, i would suggest you add these after the training missions in caucasus and not vice versa.

 

I agree that training in Nevada is by far more realistic and so on. The training for the WWII planes is more realistic in Normandy (with Assets Pack), maybe in the future we will have a clutter were the different modules will have spread their training over every possible map and we need to have different assets packs to play the training missions. I think that won't be the best advertising for DCS and the modules.

 

This is my opinion and i'm fine with it what ever you do, but maybe you mind the people who don't want to buy every map (i for myself will buy every coming map sooner or later :D ) to be able to do the training missions of a module they bought.

 

PS: I think your campaigns are great and i'm very excited about your upcoming work.

 

Thanks for the kind words and I definitely do see your point. I could probably also release the training on both maps, making the Nevada one more immersive though (to also answer the poll results).

[CheckGear]

That wouldn’t really work for DLC campaign where you’d have to have all the modules just to be able to launch it. Plus it would be an awful amount of extra work, better to do four separate campaigns in the same conflict / scenario.

 

So be it - do four separate campaigns that allow you to see one conflict from many different perspectives.

 

Personally, I prefer to deliver more story-driven and immersive campaigns where you really feel involved in what is happening.

 

Nothing I suggested is mutually exclusive with story-driven and immersive campaigns. I even laid out a pretty compelling backstory, suggesting I share the same preferences as you do. I'd rather see that than a fully-dynamic campaign, which requires trading off narratives in favor of allowing a campaign to write its own story and your imagination filling in the blanks.

[sze5003]

Having played the mirage 2000c campaign, I loved how the story was driven in that module. I'd rather have story driven campaign rather than mission scenarios. The story driven portion of it is what makes you want to continue and it helps with learning. I've actually been bored of setting up random missions. Something similar to what you did on the m2000c red flag missions. I tested a few of those but yet have to post the feedback. I really enjoyed them and the way they were laid out.

 

Having three separate campaigns would take a lot of time but it's up to you. I can't wait to see what you come up with.

[CheckGear]

Having played the mirage 2000c campaign, I loved how the story was driven in that module. I'd rather have story driven campaign rather than mission scenarios. The story driven portion of it is what makes you want to continue and it helps with learning. I've actually been bored of setting up random missions. Something similar to what you did on the m2000c red flag missions. I tested a few of those but yet have to post the feedback. I really enjoyed them and the way they were laid out.

 

Having three separate campaigns would take a lot of time but it's up to you. I can't wait to see what you come up with.

 

I think this is what the flight sims of the '80s and '90s excelled at - story-driven campaigns that made you feel a part of the war. Falcon 4.0's dynamic campaign was ground-breaking at the time, but in the long run, it suffered from the fact it didn't deliver that same sense of immersion as a story-driven campaign. These campaigns can also be semi-dynamic - how you perform in one mission will affect proceeding missions.

[sze5003]

I think this is what the flight sims of the '80s and '90s excelled at - story-driven campaigns that made you feel a part of the war. Falcon 4.0's dynamic campaign was ground-breaking at the time, but in the long run, it suffered from the fact it didn't deliver that same sense of immersion as a story-driven campaign. These campaigns can also be semi-dynamic - how you perform in one mission will affect proceeding missions.

Yea Baltic gives that option in the red flag missions. Well at least gives the player choices on how to proceed as a flight lead. It's very cool to replay the missions and try a different approach. That, including the voice acting, and how the mirage campaign slowly started off simple and gradually progressed getting more difficult, yet still keeping it simple enough not to frustrate you, is what makes it a must play. If you have not played it I definitely recommend it if you have the module.

[CheckGear]

Yea Baltic gives that option in the red flag missions. Well at least gives the player choices on how to proceed as a flight lead. It's very cool to replay the missions and try a different approach. That, including the voice acting, and how the mirage campaign slowly started off simple and gradually progressed getting more difficult, yet still keeping it simple enough not to frustrate you, is what makes it a must play. If you have not played it I definitely recommend it if you have the module.

 

I have it, but big-boy responsibilities have made it difficult for me to commit to playing it as much as it'd like.

 

I'd say, from what I've seen, the Red Flag campaigns are the best. It's funny because Red Flag is training, but it feels so much more like a real war.

[baltic_dragon]

The system we have in DCS allows you to create a semi-dynamic campaign that will let you progress to a different mission depending on the outcome of the previous one. Though this means either more work (you have to prepare twice as many missions) or shorter campaigns (but with greater replayability).

 

What I am considering for Harrier one is to have two versions of each mission that would have some minor differences. For instance if you do not destroy certain forces in M1, then you would go to M2B where they would arrive at certain moment making your task more difficult. That won’t require a lot of work or extra VOs, but should add another layer to the campaign.