Introducing the VKB-Sim ‘Modern Combat Grip’ (MCG)

[sze5003]

Yea I was going to get one when I was told more would be available end of april, here in US. Then I saw mid May, then end of May. I'm guessing it will say Mid June at one point. I ended up actually ordering from vpc since my stick needs replaced.

[Mars Exulte]

@Buckeye

I would like to put $10 on May 30th.

And another $5 on June 10 for the 'End of June', plz thx

[crab]

Ten a month sounds legit when you're talking about a kitchen knife done from one end to the other by a single 79 year old master craftsman in Japan. Where does that leave zero per month to make a flight controller? To my mind this isn't an actual functioning enterprise, just some hobbyist making a few bucks on the side when their day job allows. I hope that changes because it appears the product is good but good x zero product = zero product.

[Buckeye]

Introducing the VKB-Sim ‘Modern Combat Grip’ (MCG)

 

Ten a month sounds legit when you're talking about a kitchen knife done from one end to the other by a single 79 year old master craftsman in Japan. Where does that leave zero per month to make a flight controller? To my mind this isn't an actual functioning enterprise, just some hobbyist making a few bucks on the side when their day job allows. I hope that changes because it appears the product is good but good x zero product = zero product.

 

 

 

Slaw is a one-man hobbiest that builds hand made pedals and he churns out more a month than VKB has been. Crazy thought.

 

 

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[gekoiq]

I just want an extension for my gfmk2-mcgpro. Love the stick, but waiting 2 months now for an extension is making me eyeball my extended warthog again...

[Mars Exulte]

@Buckeye, based off his wording when I ordered pedals a month or two ago, it sounded like he has a guy or two helping him now. 'We're a very small company, and backlogged' etc, something to that affect. I think said 20-25 ahead of me, 3-4 days per pedal. I'd have to check emails again

 

-edit

 

He said 3+ months on 3-17, and I saw elsewhere about it taking about four days to make a set of pedals, probably where I got 20-25

Edited May 24, 2018 by zhukov032186

[crab]

Slaw is a one-man hobbiest that builds hand made pedals and he churns out more a month than VKB has been. Crazy thought.

 

 

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Virpil is actually shipping products which they show can be bought, people are getting them as we speak. They're every bit a start up operation and it shows in their many delays and other issues but they also appear to be getting off the ground and becoming a working concern. VKB is a start up that has product that it says is for sale but isn't shipping to anyone, hasn't been for some time, and the future date an object they say they are selling may ship is unknown with any estimate best considered tentative.

 

 

 

I bought those Japanese knives and I waited a good chunk of a year for my number to come up. This didn't bother me because he was shipping product regularly. I'm not against small businesses or start ups, I root for them. This one isn't working at this time. There really is no time table if you want to order a joy stick. December for a throttle they say but will it be ready? If you want one can you order it and have it realistically show up in an estimated time frame? Maybe. Maybe not. I'll be in the market for a new setup to replace the works when I get back home this winter but can I look at this shop? Probably not. Why? Because this is not yet a functional business from which I can select a produce and expect it to ship within the given time frame. At least not now, I hope that changes but it is the truth today. I hope they make it work in the future but for the time being no product no matter how good is still no product and you cant fly with a stick that doesn't exist.

[Buckeye]

You’re correct that VPC is a startup, VKB however is not. At all. They’ve been around many, many years at this point. UIV was quick to point this out to me previously...not realizing it only made their chronic delays even more mind boggling.

 

 

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[crab]

Your right, this is what I was referring to as their day job vs hobby but I'm getting my Acronyms hashed up. My bad on that. I'm not down on the operation, I believe they would be my first choice if it could be made although it may seem so if it isn't understood these are observations rather than criticism. For my purposes I won't need a new home HOTAS until the fall and maybe the landscape will be different then. Right now you also have the possible outing of a new TM product in the interim but I wouldn't be a customer if it's just an 18 grip. I'm sold on the smoother movements owners are almost universallyreporting from the gunfighter or T50, they feel like the next step.

[Mars Exulte]

I don't know what you're using now, Crab, but I used an X52, theb a 55, and before that some smaller units like a Cyborg and TM Fox....something... that was a long time ago, looked a lot like the T16000 but silver and just a slider for throttle. Quality and smoothness varied dramatically, but the first time I used a cam gimbal, Gladiator Pro from VKB, I was sold. It really IS a huge difference, especially a you can customise the forces. I don't know the exact differences between the two, but either one is great. I waited for VKB (despite my teasing) because they have the most advanced features, at least at present, and despite the long wait, I'm very, very pleased with the result (Gunfighter II)

[crab]

The home HOTAS is a Cougar. I'd like to up my flying a little, I cant say I've ever been great at fueling and even something as simple as riding the glide slope can sometimes be a trial for me. I'm hopeful a better HOTAS can help overcome old age and a lack of skill in that regard and I can afford it so... why not? And yeah, it's been folks like you with the overwhelmingly positive feedback that has brought me to this pass. :)

[AeroGator]

Ten a month sounds legit when you're talking about a kitchen knife done from one end to the other by a single 79 year old master craftsman in Japan. Where does that leave zero per month to make a flight controller? To my mind this isn't an actual functioning enterprise, just some hobbyist making a few bucks on the side when their day job allows. I hope that changes because it appears the product is good but good x zero product = zero product.

You are right about "whatever good x zero = zero". Very true.

 

Yes by the way, end of May is indeed not a valid deadline, so who was going to bet 10 bucks on

the 30th, please don't.

 

The next batch is being made and we are spending practically every day, 7 days a week, at the factories.

Unexpectedly, the recent shipment to Europe that was supposed to fully cover all orders and stock up the storage for a few months, was sold out in less than a week.

 

So the currently being made batch is going to be much larger.

 

The size of the batch does not really affect the production time this much. What does is that those who create new models and those who spend days and weeks at the factories making sure the devices are produced to our standards of quality mostly are the same people.

(yes we do it on intention, because it helps our designers master factory technology, too).

 

All delays and slow downs of present day are not because of weak production capacity (that's in the past) but due to constant improvement and strict quality control.

 

So... it is coming. Although not on time but soon enough.

[rrohde]

Thanks AeroGator for chiming in from VKB HQ. Always good to hear from the horses mouth. :thumbup:

 

 

Yes by the way, end of May is indeed not a valid deadline, so who was going to bet 10 bucks on

the 30th, please don't.

 

Thank you. For me as a VKB sales partner, this is important info as well; usually, me and VKB's chief engineer try to pencil in release dates based on projection at the time (as it was with the "End of May" one, and I totally understand how frustrating it can be for those who are waiting when an "estimated release date" gets pushed back again... and again... and again.

 

Time for a newsletter to that effect, me thinks.

[Mars Exulte]

Couldn't you have waited five more days for that, Aero? Who had the 25th? =D And I am just teasing, I think most the people here are impatient but goodish natured about it =) I know you're being swamped...

 

Tbh, you guys are in the retailer equivalent of heaven. Most companies would say selling out inventory faster than you can fill it and having a zombie horde beating at the doors is a wet dream =)

 

-edit

I'm surprised, tbh, that with you, and Virpil, TM, AND Saitek, that there's enough market to go around to keep all of you backlogged. The fact you highend boutique manufacturers are being swamped sufficiently to warrant industrialisation of your 'niche' market amazes me. Must be more people doing this stuff than I thought.

Edited May 25, 2018 by zhukov032186

[AeroGator]

Couldn't you have waited five more days for that, Aero?

I'm surprised,... that there's enough market to go around to keep all of you backlogged.

 

Why didn't you offer me a kickback?.. I would if you did!

 

Thing is that it is a huge engineering challenge. I didn't believe it till I walked inside the kitchen.

I mean, creating something really new (which by far not all manufacturers do) and fostering this kid through all stages of design and technology till it is ready to take place on your desk.

 

Being what you call boutique device makers means depending quite heavily on all suppliers, and there are many more of them that people are used to presuming.

 

Want one example? Take the tiny springs that are used in numbers in every joystick. Even though we have our own factories, we can't make everything we need, and these tiny things are a pain.

The joystick will give you that smooth buttery feel when all springs used are within pretty narrow tolerance.

Recently one of the suppliers screwed up something about honing of their springs, who knows what, maybe the temperature was one degree too high or five too low. The springs delivered to us looked perfect - not anything you can see with your eye, and not anything you can detect by just instrumental measuring. However, moving a fully assembled joystick felt crappy.

Probably 80+ per cent users would never realize that but for us it was a total no go, so... so what did you say about that 25th of May bet? :) Yes the damned springs pushed us back about 5 days.

 

This sort of problem is not an issue for companies that produce supermarket grade devices in millions, and neither it is for those who keep making small batches grouping the orders by dozens.

But to us at our present stage of development it is a plague.

 

Everything of course can be dealt with, and at the end of the day we sure will manage this, as we have managed all the rest. We don't have alike problems with our older and better established models like T-Rudders - but for newer designs such as MCG it will take some time to get done with all these little фucк-ups.

 

So thanks for understanding and for your angelic patience!

[Mars Exulte]

Thanks for the explanation :) I'm sure others will appreciate it as well. I do also appreciate your attention to detail and quality, you're correct, most places don't do that and you never REALLY know what you're getting when you open the box. In your case, even though it can cause delays, it helps make sure that the customers that receive their orders are happy with them. Nothing is worse than paying $400+ for something like this, it finally arriving... only to be broken, defective, or otherwise a letdown.

 

 

There are options for those who don't want to wait, or who aren't picky, but I'll repeat what I already said... after the long wait, when I got it in my hand, I wasn't disappointed.

 

 

-edit

 

 

Note, I'm a perfectionist, as well. So, if I was running a business, I'd probably be that nitpicky about what I put out, too.

Edited May 26, 2018 by zhukov032186

[crab]

Appreciate the update on your progress/status. I'm self-employed and spent most of my life running my own business so I know better than to presume to tell you what you should or shouldn't do with your business. I do have a suggestion to make however... Even a brief explanation of your current production and status goes a long way towards letting potential buyers know you're an ongoing concern. I'm not talking about a daily recap of minutia that would waste your time but rather an occasional and quick big picture update. What amounts to a few minutes once a week, every two weeks, whatever you feel works for you. It's something to consider if you're of a mind.

[Snacko]

The next batch is being made and we are spending practically every day, 7 days a week, at the factories.

Unexpectedly, the recent shipment to Europe that was supposed to fully cover all orders and stock up the storage for a few months, was sold out in less than a week.

Then, why don't you accept pre-orders? Take an order, and credit card info. And don't charge anything until it's shipped?

 

You will then have a better idea of how many to manufacture, instead of being 'sold out' in Europe and not available in the USA. At least all those customers who have been waiting for months would know their products are in the next batch, instead of having to watch, day after day to 'jump' on it as soon as it is finally available. Which is super annoying if you have been waching and watching and then find out it's arrived, but sold out because you weren't able to check for a few days. :doh:

[simus]

Then, why don't you accept pre-orders? Take an order, and credit card info. And don't charge anything until it's shipped?

 

You will then have a better idea of how many to manufacture, instead of being 'sold out' in Europe and not available in the USA. At least all those customers who have been waiting for months would know their products are in the next batch, instead of having to watch, day after day to 'jump' on it as soon as it is finally available. Which is super annoying if you have been waching and watching and then find out it's arrived, but sold out because you weren't able to check for a few days. :doh:

 

same for me. it will be great if we can pre-order, because now i'm starting to look at Virpil

[dburne]

same for me. it will be great if we can pre-order, because now i'm starting to look at Virpil

 

It would seem they only allow pre-orders after they are set up to run a batch, in which case they have already allocated the quantity for that run, which in turn ends up creating these shortages and lots of frustration. So only those that were able to get in on the pre-order before they closed it out are able to get product, no real after the run availability except maybe on some of the lower cost products.

And they do not run batches much often.

 

 

I guess probably a good business model for them as they do not have to carry too much cost in inventory, but not so good for the person that finds out about a VKB stick and wants or needs to get one fairly quickly.

[F900EX]

After 6 months of telling us it will end of May, now its TBD... LOL

 

VKB have never been able to stick with any timeline.

 

You know what they need to do is shut down their website (other than support) and when they have products to offer in stock start back up. This is just ridiculous. Can't preorder, they can't stick to any realistic� timeline with no end in sight. Have issues then take it all offline until they are resolved.

 

Back in January AG said it was not going to mass produce them, 2 pages back they are ramping up LOL .... Honestly, I don't know what to believe anymore.

 

 

 

[Mars Exulte]

You being unable to order the joystick you want is at worst a mild nuisance. They aren't costing anybody anything, nor hurting anything. This is the very definition of first world complaint ;) Let them run their business as they choose. If you don't want to wait, don't. It's hardly an outrage, and nobody is losing any sleep over 'lost business'. They sell as fast as they make them. They won't miss the impatient ones

[F900EX]

This has nothing about first world problems, like you said in the VKB America thread...

 

"They can't send you that which they do not have. Everything they built sold out. Another batch is being produced"

 

So then why has it been on their website for nearly 6 Months that by the end of May the joystick would be back in stock.. 4 days before the end of May it's now its TBD??

 

Back in December, they knew how many they sold, they knew exactly how many pre-orders they had to fill and any backlog.

 

All VKB has to do is be is up front instead of mixed messages, I'm not the only one who has waited 6+ months to either pre-order or purchase. You swear we were only waiting a few days/weeks here. There have been people here longer than me waiting, I hardly call that impatient.

 

Zhukvo - you don't have all the facts, I made my decision to patiently wait based on a PM that was sent to me by AeroGator back in early February, I'm not going to share it here, but let's just say if I was told it's a 1 year wait then fine, I'll wait 1 year, but let's just say that's not what I was not told and others I believe were told the same.

 

I've stayed silent and waited patiently like many others but very disappointed that 4 days before the end of May VKB decide to push out the order date when they probably knew very well weeks ago that the end of May was unrealistic.... and then decided last min to change the order date again.

[Mars Exulte]

I'd been waiting since September. I sold all my gear in January. I only got one a few weeks ago. I still can't play, because the throttle I want is delayed and the pedals are backlogged, I estimate I'll be waiting 2-3 more months most likely before I'm back in shape. I'm also waiting on VKB's extension. Your story is not unique. Regardless, unless they took money from you, it's really not any big deal, regardless of 'what they said'. It's not like they're Chris Roberts selling you JPGs and promises... VKB give you JPGs and promises free of charge lol

[F900EX]

LOL