missile warning receiver

[stalhuth]

Hello gents, today playing a bit with the A10C in Nevada I notice I don't get the usual warning alarm sound when manpads launch IR missile to me, is that normal, a bug? Usually I always get warning from any incoming missile.

[kylekatarn720]

I could be wrong but i remember someone else reporting this problem.

 

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[Yurgon]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there were several reports revolving around the MWS not doing its job lately.

[Deezle]

Ongoing thread here https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=180092

 

It works ahead and behind but if you're beaming the launcher I never get a warning.

[Magnanimous]

AFAIK the RWR detects radar which IR guided missiles do not emit- nor do the fellows launching them off their shoulders.

 

 

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[Yurgon]

AFAIK the RWR detects radar which IR guided missiles do not emit- nor do the fellows launching them off their shoulders.

 

That is all correct, but besides the point. :smartass:

 

The A-10C does have a missile warning system, which IIRC scans the IR spectrum surrounding the aircraft for signatures that look like missile launches and displays these launches on the RWR display with an "M" indication. It should be able to detect (passive) IR guided missiles like Stinger and Igla and can even be triggered (and has been in the past) by wingmen and other friendlies launching AGMs and AAMs, and can even be triggered by ground-to-ground missiles like HOTs or TOWs fired from HMMWVs and the like.

 

There is some pretty cool information on the MWS buried in these forums, most likely posted by Snoopy or Eddie, if you'd like to dig deeper. The A-10C manual doesn't go very deep on the MWS, unfortunately (or at least searching the PDF for "MWS" didn't yield a lot of info when I just looked for it).

 

In any case, the A-10C can indeed detect missile launches even when the missiles use passive guidance, which is an extremely cool feature! And also, when you're on MP and forget to call out "Rifle", prepare to take a verbal beating from your fellow aviators who just expanded a couple dozen flares for nothing. Well. When the MWS problems are fixed, that is. :D

[MRaza]

AFAIK the RWR detects radar which IR guided missiles do not emit- nor do the fellows launching them off their shoulders.

 

 

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Yurgon is correct. Almost all military aircraft have RWRs that detect radar illuminating the aircraft, like you said.

 

But the A10 has another system that is unique to it: the MWS (Missile Warning System) which detects ALL missile launches. Air-to-Air Missiles, TOWs being fired on the ground, and IR guided MANPADS, and so on.

 

If someone launches a missile, whether or not it's directed at you, your MWS will light up

[p1t1o]

Not for nothing, but shoulder-launched missiles are very small compared to most other munitions, it makes sense that their exhaust will be less visible to MWS sensors, perhaps even below detection threshold.

 

I've heard anecdotally, that common wisdom IRL is to continuously eject flares whenever below MANPAD engagement altitude, when MANPADS are suspected to be present.

[BillyCrusher]

If someone launches a missile, whether or not it's directed at you, your MWS will light up

 

It's not a quite correct. MWS has filtering by angular velocity. If rocket motor plume moves with high angular velocity relative to MWS probe, it doesn't trigger MWS alarm (because the most probably it was launched not at your aircraft).

[FalconPlot16]

i tested this last week i get missile warnings so late

[razo+r]

i tested this last week i get missile warnings so late

 

make sure the sensor have the missile in their FOV when one is being launched

[Magnanimous]

I'm actually glad to hear this! I was resigned to occasionally falling victim to an enemy that was impossible to detect- never mind see on the TGP. Hell, can't even see a Big Bird on the TGP...

 

 

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[Deezle]

It's not a quite correct. MWS has filtering by angular velocity. If rocket motor plume moves with high angular velocity relative to MWS probe, it doesn't trigger MWS alarm (because the most probably it was launched not at your aircraft).

So any comment on the current lack of alerts with the A-10C MWS, particularly alerts from the side, alerts that we used to get?

[GGTharos]

Not for nothing, but shoulder-launched missiles are very small compared to most other munitions, it makes sense that their exhaust will be less visible to MWS sensors, perhaps even below detection threshold.

 

They're quite visible - in fact they're the main reason why MWS is employed. I don't know how you came up with that assumption :)

 

I've heard anecdotally, that common wisdom IRL is to continuously eject flares whenever below MANPAD engagement altitude, when MANPADS are suspected to be present.

 

This is because it can actually cause the operator to lock the missile onto a flare before the missile is even launched - the operator doesn't have much feedback with respect to what the seeker is actually tracking, and decoying the missile after lock-on is more risky than getting it decoyed before it even launched.

[stalhuth]

so guys, is this a bug to be fixed or is just like this?

[BillyCrusher]

so guys, is this a bug to be fixed or is just like this?

 

After quick test I didn't see any unusual MWS behaviour. Will investigate more deeply after weekend.

[p1t1o]

They're quite visible - in fact they're the main reason why MWS is employed. I don't know how you came up with that assumption :)

 

 

 

This is because it can actually cause the operator to lock the missile onto a flare before the missile is even launched - the operator doesn't have much feedback with respect to what the seeker is actually tracking, and decoying the missile after lock-on is more risky than getting it decoyed before it even launched.

 

Well I mean, their size and smaller plume aren't an assumption! But if MAWS can reliably detect them then so be it. Thanks for the other explanation that makes sense too :)

[Zarma]

I read that most of the missiles but manpads are detected. Havent tested myself.