Bumpy ride in bad weather?!

[twistking]

Hello,

when comparing DCS to real world flying, i always feel that flying in real world can be quite rough or bumpy, which you cannot really feel in DCS.

 

When you dial in bad weather in dcs, you get a lot of wind, but even with high "turbulence" you fly very smoothly, only landing is really difficult, because of (changing) crosswinds and/or bad visibility.

In a commercial airliner - even in good weather - it sometimes feels like hitting waves on a small boat. This may be pronounced in an airliner, because there is so much loose stuff (baggage, laptops, gastronomical stuff) rattling around, but i'm pretty sure you would also feel it strongly without the rattling.

 

In reality you often get these "turbulences" when going through clouds, but sometimes also in clear weather at cruising altitude, so they are probably multiple different reasons of these bumpy "turbulences" to occur (probably all having sth. to do with very small areas of very high atmospheric pressure deviation)

I feel that DCS simualtes none of these though, which is a pity, because it would make the general aviation aspect so much more immersive and would make flying in uncertain weather more scary and for small planes maybe even more dangerous?!

Edited May 9, 2017 by twistking

[cichlidfan]

I feel that DCS simualtes none of these though, which is a pity, because it would make the general aviation aspect so much more immersive and would make flying in uncertain weather more scary and for small planes maybe even more dangerous?!

 

This isn't a general aviation sim.

[twistking]

This isn't a general aviation sim.

 

well, english is not my first language obviously.

i meant aspects of aviation, that are not referring to pure combat or dogfighting only...

 

i am pretty sure, that "weather" is still a big aspect of military aviation... and "immersion" is a big part of a simulator game.

[MegOhm_SD]

Flying in DCS is "Dangerous" enough already.

 

I do not use it but isnt there a headshake option?

 

And externally, shake vs floating.

Edited May 9, 2017 by MegOhm_SD

[Golo]

This isn't a general aviation sim.

 

What are you on about? This was aviation sim, well at least last time I checked. So modeling of atmosphere and related stuff should be one of the priority for DCS.

 

I see it same as OP hence my posted wishlist some time ago - https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=160556

[MegOhm_SD]

What are you on about? This was aviation sim, well at least last time I checked. So modeling of atmosphere and related stuff should be one of the priority for DCS.

 

I see it same as OP hence my posted wishlist some time ago - https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=160556

 

Aviation Sim is too broad, So no....Ummm is and always has been a Combat Simulator...

Edited May 9, 2017 by MegOhm_SD

[Golo]

Ummm Combat Simulator...

 

Combat flight simulator, corrected it for you.

[MegOhm_SD]

Thought that was pretty intuitive...but OK. :thumbup:

[cichlidfan]

What are you on about? This was aviation sim, well at least last time I checked. So modeling of atmosphere and related stuff should be one of the priority for DCS.

 

Since the sim is a combat sim first, and an aviation sim second, things like this are secondary to issues that affect the ability to have realistic combat. Even from a purely aviation standpoint there are still many things that need attention before spending time trying to model a 'bumpy' ride.

[Golo]

I dont know, I just have different opinion. To do any kind of combat you actually have take off and fly first (excluding CA). So for me its flight sim first combat sim second (lot of times im not doing any kind of combat actually) and as such atmospheric effects should be simulated as best as they can.

[shagrat]

We fly. We have weather, even dynamic one that changes. We have different aircraft.

More than I can say for most Combat FLIGHT sims I flew in the last 3 decades. ;)

Edited May 9, 2017 by shagrat

[impeller83]

Hello,

when comparing DCS to real world flying, i always feel that flying in real world can be quite rough or bumpy, which you cannot really feel in DCS.

 

When you dial in bad weather in dcs, you get a lot of wind, but even with high "turbulence" you fly very smoothly, only landing is really difficult, because of (changing) crosswinds and/or bad visibility.

In a commercial airliner - even in good weather - it sometimes feels like hitting waves on a small boat. This may be pronounced in an airliner, because there is so much loose stuff (baggage, laptops, gastronomical stuff) rattling around, but i'm pretty sure you would also feel it strongly without the rattling.

 

In reality you often get these "turbulences" when going through clouds, but sometimes also in clear weather at cruising altitude, so they are probably multiple different reasons of these bumpy "turbulences" to occur (probably all having sth. to do with very small areas of very high atmospheric pressure deviation)

I feel that DCS simualtes none of these though, which is a pity, because it would make the general aviation aspect so much more immersive and would make flying in uncertain weather more scary and for small planes maybe even more dangerous?!

+1

I feel the same way as you. Hopefully its on its way

[probad]

turbulence has tangible effects especially on the low altitude environment relevant in dcs. apart from actual performance impacts, there can be other subtle but important consequences like hms targeting. aerial combat is not limited to just the exercise of deploying weapons. better atmospheric modelling benefits air combat simulation just as better terrain interaction mechanics benefit ground combat simulation.

[Ironhand]

Since this is posted in the wish list, I second the OP's request. Whether this is a military sim or ga sim, the medium in which all activity takes place is the atmosphere. It should have an impact on every flight. And should mimic the real thing as closely as possible.

 

As a community we get bent out of shape if the aircraft we fly doesn't react as we think it should when we press a button or attempt a maneuver. Why not hold the simulated medium in which the activity takes place to the same standards? :)

[probad]

its sad when people only seem to desire fidelity when it gives them an advantage.

[Redglyph]

well, english is not my first language obviously.

i meant aspects of aviation, that are not referring to pure combat or dogfighting only...

 

i am pretty sure, that "weather" is still a big aspect of military aviation... and "immersion" is a big part of a simulator game.

 

Don't worry, your sentence was perfect, I think it was simply misread. Sometimes people see a few words, miss some others, and jump to conclusion, happens to me too :)

 

+1 on the turbulence wish, that's one of the things that I miss too and which would bring a lot to immersion.

 

Oh, and clouds, what wouldn't I give for more convincing clouds instead of 2D sprites that rotate when you turn your head. But one step at a time, it can't be easy to give a priority to each feature in such a complex sim, even less to get everyone to agree on it.

[OnlyforDCS]

This isn't a general aviation sim.

 

Why don't we go back to SFM too while we are at it, because shooting at things is much more important than flying really.

 

/s

 

The OP has a great point. Turbulence would really be cool and would increase the fidelity of the flight sim experience.

[AlphaOneSix]

Turbulence would be really hard to simulate properly without the air mass being a fluid. Unless you just want them to fake it. I'd rather not have it than fake it.

[ekg]

Is there ANY consumer simulator that simulates turbulence? I agree with OP having this simulated would be nice. Would make landings much more interesting too.

[Weta43]

There is a vertical component to the turbulence, not just 'cross wind'.

 

If you load a mission with an Su-25 ramp starting & high turbulence set in the ME (remembering that the scale is in 1/10 m/s, while the wind is in m/s), then turn on the power & watch the AOA indicator, you'll see it flicking between + & - angles & the vanes on the pitot swinging up and down as vector of the modelled turbulence swaps between upwards and downwards.

 

You don't feel it in your gut, but I'm pretty sure if you come in for a landing and hold the stick dead still you'll see the aircraft getting bumped around both horizontally and vertically.

[probad]

Turbulence would be really hard to simulate properly without the air mass being a fluid. Unless you just want them to fake it. I'd rather not have it than fake it.

well, youd be writing off dcs itself by that criteria since its not real time aerodynamics...

[GGTharos]

Turbulence would be really hard to simulate properly without the air mass being a fluid. Unless you just want them to fake it. I'd rather not have it than fake it.

I don't agree here ... Turbulence is implemented as random gusts, and with dynamic weather those are tired to the wind direction fields. So if you mean that the atmosphere needs to move as a fluid as a whole, dynamic weather simulates this in a way.

 

The turbulence itself is random and that's ok too because it is affected by the wind vector field and they add up to make sense.

 

Now can talk about not simulated effects like microbursts or downdraft on the side of a mountain... They can be simulated using the very same techniques but require a bigger complexity for the algorithms that generate those effects. So you might have partial cheating, ie some of the effects may be pre generated and/or seeded, but they'd princely give you a lot of immersion ... However this sort of thing is a huge project all on its own :)

[WRAITH]

Maybe in the near future......................

 

This isn't a general aviation sim.

 

Yeah, I hear some in community voice this opinion as well.

 

However I don't agree, a flight simulator incorporates all aspects of aviation regardless.

 

Even though DCS is still an air combat somewhat where to in some regard that has been argued as well, from those who know more about sims.

 

DCS is still not a full mature Air Combat Sim either, its more like in transition hence the ALPHA + BETA state of the sim.

 

Take into consideration the below as an old sim and small developer group working hard to rebuild the code-base...............

 

 

Eagle Dynamics

 

Is a software company founded by the Russian Igor Tishin in 1991, based in Moscow, Russia. The company is the leader in developing combat flight simulators, and it develops Oracle-based products.

Online Reference:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Dynamics

 

Its being overhauled from an old code-base to a new C++ version with great added benefits for things like graphical improvements and A.i so on.

 

So its going to take a while heaps of work under the hood so to speak.

 

Also the community overall has posted much on DCS Forum over the years as to what is desired and needed as a flight simulator.

 

E.g....

 

 

• Full Weather Engine
  
• Full ATC Module
  
• World MAP Theaters of War with dynamic campaigns
  
• Airports, Air Fields, Aerodromes, Expeditionary/makeshift air fields, airbases, International Airports so on.
  
• Combined Arms full operational mechanics working in sim
  
• Ships and Carrier Strike Group
  
• Blue vs Red Forces list of Operational Aircraft
  
• Commercial, civil, recreational, sport Aviation busy airways ....etc
  

 

That is only just the start to what is needed in future development to expand DCS we all know it.

 

What I have asked in several posts is whats ED plans (road map) with the game design and concept in progressive development.

 

What do they want to achieve I have asked this question before like many others.

 

I posted here a while back................ https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2148972&postcount=181

 

also this here............ https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=89756

 

and many other threads where this has been discussed before!

 

The hope is amongst the flight sim community since there really is no other Air Combat Sim around is for DCS to encompass all that is aviation and air combat. Its the hope and dreams that after "THE MERGE" that things really ramp up and that DCS grows as a studio business in the flight sim developer genre of gaming! :thumbup:

Edited May 10, 2017 by WRAITH

[David OC]

There is a turbulence setting in dynamic weather, it does a bit if you crank it up, no real buffeting etc.

 

You could never model real time turbulence etc in sim, but I do wonder why instead of constant wind speed have it much more random and acting more like wind gusts?

 

Buffeting is faked in the other sims for immersion, Accu-Feel etc.

 

Perhaps ED may add something like this way down the track?

 

Would add another level of difficulty in gunnery for the ww2 aircraft!

[WRAITH]

There is a turbulence setting in dynamic weather, it does a bit if you crank it up, no real buffeting etc.

 

You could never model real time turbulence etc in sim, but I do wonder why instead of constant wind speed have it much more random and acting more like wind gusts?

 

Buffeting is faked in the other sims for immersion, Accu-Feel etc.

Perhaps ED may add something like this way down the track?

 

Would add another level of difficulty in gunnery for the ww2 aircraft!

 

Yes agreed on above its code all 1010101 LoL

 

Everything can be mimicked or simulated but with compromises of course its never going to be as real.

 

I also posted here if people are interested - https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3127572&postcount=36

Edited May 10, 2017 by WRAITH