Spitfire control

[ATAG_chair1]

:pilotfly: I use a thrustmaster warthog and I can't seem to get the spits to control gently. The slightest movement of the stick and it over controls easily . I adjusted the sensitivity down to 30% and have a little dead zone. Any suggestions or has anyone else solved this problem?

[finch]

:pilotfly: I use a thrustmaster warthog and I can't seem to get the spits to control gently. The slightest movement of the stick and it over controls easily . I adjusted the sensitivity down to 30% and have a little dead zone. Any suggestions or has anyone else solved this problem?

 

do you have any stick extension? I'm experimenting extensions with my t.16000 and it is like night and day... better smooth movements and aiming with a curve of about 15%

[TWC_SLAG]

do you have any stick extension? I'm experimenting extensions with my t.16000 and it is like night and day... better smooth movements and aiming with a curve of about 15%

 

If he has no problem with other planes, it's probably the Spitfire, itself. I have the Spitfire, and I'm not flying it anymore until they work out those controls being waaay overly sensitive. Before you ask, I have tried everything I can think of to dampen them down.

[finch]

If he has no problem with other planes, it's probably the Spitfire, itself. I have the Spitfire, and I'm not flying it anymore until they work out those controls being waaay overly sensitive. Before you ask, I have tried everything I can think of to dampen them down.

 

yes, it is, a little touch of the control stick and it jumps, but i doubt that will change something in the future, DCS claimed that works as intended... :joystick:

[rtimmons]

I use a 5 1/2" extension and the Spit fly's really nicely for me. Also the helicopters and other aircraft are much easier to control. The Warthog stick is very stiff and was making my arm hurt so I tried the extension and would never go back. Plus the stick in the Spit has a very long throw as well. I just hate the braking system :)

 

slyfly

[Davee]

:pilotfly: I use a thrustmaster warthog and I can't seem to get the spits to control gently. The slightest movement of the stick and it over controls easily . I adjusted the sensitivity down to 30% and have a little dead zone. Any suggestions or has anyone else solved this problem?

 

You may find your answer here.

Watch both vids . . . a lot of info on stick settings.

Cheers

 

 

[Davee]

I use a 5 1/2" extension and the Spit fly's really nicely for me. Also the helicopters and other aircraft are much easier to control. The Warthog stick is very stiff and was making my arm hurt so I tried the extension and would never go back. Plus the stick in the Spit has a very long throw as well. I just hate the braking system :)

 

slyfly

 

From where did you get your stick extensions?

 

Thanks

[rtimmons]

do a forums search on user name Sahaj and you will see several option including Sahaj's extension that I bought.

 

slyfly

[rtimmons]

I do not use any curves or tweaks with the extension and it works fine for me without them. Actually works better without them...

 

slyfly

[TWC_SLAG]

yes, it is, a little touch of the control stick and it jumps, but i doubt that will change something in the future, DCS claimed that works as intended... :joystick:

 

Could my problem arise from using a FFB2 joystick? Has anyone using this stick had the same sensitivity problem and found a solution?

[OnlyforDCS]

Could my problem arise from using a FFB2 joystick? Has anyone using this stick had the same sensitivity problem and found a solution?

 

I use the FFB2 (no extensions) and I use absolutely no curves. Curves are NOT recommended for force feedback joysticks, as the motor force is not affected by them and as a result you get very unrealistic handling forces.

 

I fly the Spit daily and don't find that its a problem. (Trim force 100, shake 50) It is very sensitive but once you get used to it, it's actually a really nice ride.

 

I did tape over the sensor, which means that the motor force is applied all the time (if the joystick is plugged in) depending on the airflow over the control surfaces of course. What I mean to say is, you could either adapt to it or you can stop flying the Spit alltogether, since this is not going to be fixed as it is working as intended. (According to Yo Yo).

Edited May 15, 2017 by OnlyforDCS

[finch]

Could my problem arise from using a FFB2 joystick? Has anyone using this stick had the same sensitivity problem and found a solution?

 

t.16000 here, both axis saturation Y is 80% and 20% curve, very smooth. I had problems before, but adding the saturation Y solved all

[Ala13_ManOWar]

If he has no problem with other planes, it's probably the Spitfire, itself. I have the Spitfire, and I'm not flying it anymore until they work out those controls being waaay overly sensitive. Before you ask, I have tried everything I can think of to dampen them down.

So won't ever fly the Spit again mate :lol:. It was explained, weeeell before Spitfire released in a mythical now post by Yo-yo, that the Spit would be exactly as designed so that means really sensitive in pitch. Think anyway the real Spitfire stick is really long, so that helps with the sensitivity, on the contrary we are at home helpless with only a short stick. A long stick or curves that plays the trick of a longer stick is what it needs. Pitty to give up on such a wonderful module like Spitfire is just because she's tough to tame as IRL.

 

 

Long stick here, bit of curve in pitch axis, works flawlessly.

 

 

S!

[DD_Fenrir]

I have FFB2 stick also.

 

Pitch:

Saturation: 100%

Curves: +25%

 

Roll:

Saturation: 100%

Curves: +15%

 

Rudder:

Saturation: 100%

Curves: +10%

 

At these I find her sensitive but controllable with the caveat that it took a few hours of stick time to adjust to the very small movements required.

 

Having trained on the DCS: UH-1 beforehand helped as the movements required to hover the Huey were tiny compared to the general stick stirring required in previous simulators I had been flying.

 

Tips to all:

 

Curves are great but will always be a compromise - what you gain in controllability around the datum (your stick centralised point) will be taken from your response toward the limits of the stick travel. What this means is that your input accelerates towards full stick deflection. For dogfighters this is acceptable, as the majority of the time you're stick behaviour is pretty much binary; you're either a) making small corrections for gunnery or general flight regimes or b) near the limits making aggressive full rate manoevres trying to bring the nose on target (or getting out the way of being someone elses!)

 

The caveat comes in those other flight regimes which occupy those areas where you're betwen the two - manoevres during formation flying can become trickier due to curves as you often have large but less than full stick displacements.

 

The real trouble comes on the pitch curve when we reach that point at which the input accelerates; in certain aircraft at certain speeds you could well be at this point if you're trying to ride the stall limit and finding your self in the stick regime where the input is becoming very very sensitive to even tiny movements.

 

It will always be a trade off.

 

All I can recommend is that you use as little curvature as you can manage. If necessary start larger then work your way down to a point you find the minimum acceptable for your hardware and taste.

 

Saturation.

 

Let's start at the basic. Any less than 100% and your full stick deflection will not be giving you all that the control surface in game is capable of.

 

For ailerons this is a BAD idea. Unless the rate of roll is noticably non-linear and you can hand on your heart tell me that there is no increase in roll rate above, a for example, a stick input of 75% then fair enough but your saturation should not come below that figure. Otherwise you simply cheat yourself out of available roll rate.

 

For pitch the matter is far more complex and will vary considerably from airframe to airframe. The Spitfire could be argued to have too effective elevators and could well take a healthy dose of saturation cut and be very well suited. However...

 

Bear in mind what prevents you over stressing the airframe at 450mph will bite you when you run out of elevator authority at 100mph coming in over the hedge. Unless the trimming model moves the virtual datum of your stick to allow you to access the full range of control surface deflection (which I can neither confirm or deny) then you will be in trouble.

 

As ever, this requires time, trial and error and practise to harmonise all of the variables; the virtual a/c, your physical hardware, your virtual flying precison (or lack thereof!) and where you are willing to compromise in order to find an enjoyable and satisfying experience.

 

DCS allows you a powerful set of customizations in it's control setup to enable you to best reach the compromise that suits you. You just have to be prepared to get stuck in.

 

Or get a full scale stick!

Edited May 15, 2017 by DD_Fenrir

[snowsniper]

Could my problem arise from using a FFB2 joystick? Has anyone using this stick had the same sensitivity problem and found a solution?

 

Yes. Have the same stick.

The only axes too much sensitiv is the pitch for me

Roll and yaw are ok and curvature linear

 

On the pitch axes do a huge 45% curvature and a litle deadzone of 3 or 5

You can also on pitch do a 80% on y part of the curvature

 

Also on the manifold pressure slider I did a special setting to have more precision on low pressure for landing and fight against torque effects

 

So far with this settings. It s perfect for dogfights aerobatics and precise 3 points landings.

[bell_rj]

If he has no problem with other planes, it's probably the Spitfire, itself. I have the Spitfire, and I'm not flying it anymore until they work out those controls being waaay overly sensitive. Before you ask, I have tried everything I can think of to dampen them down.

I've flown a real Spitfire LF MK IXc. This is exactly how the real thing flies. First time I got my hands on the controls at 280mph and pitched up - just a little - it was like being on a rollercoaster and my stomach went "woah what are you doing??!". And I knew what to expect, I knew to do tiny movements with my finger tips. Still my first touch was too much. It took a while to get the hang of it. So, if you want realism - you've got it!

[Perfesser]

I too have an FFB stick but don't use it right now for DCS. I prefer the CH Fighterstick, just feels better.

As for the pitch I do the very same thing I did in IL2'46 - limit the elevator travel to enable me to just barely spin the airplane at full deflection.

Stick full back in a max turn I can control it (or spin it) with rudder. No issues on landing either, still some travel left on the flare(but I rarely use flaps for landing).

Saturation 60

Curve 15

Edited May 15, 2017 by Perfesser

[Yo-Yo]

I've flown a real Spitfire LF MK IXc. This is exactly how the real thing flies. First time I got my hands on the controls at 280mph and pitched up - just a little - it was like being on a rollercoaster and my stomach went "woah what are you doing??!". And I knew what to expect, I knew to do tiny movements with my finger tips. Still my first touch was too much. It took a while to get the hang of it. So, if you want realism - you've got it!

 

A very logical and natural transition from "Tiger Moth" to the Spit... :)

[bell_rj]

A very logical and natural transition from "Tiger Moth" to the Spit...

Heh, yeah. The professional pilots I flew with made it look easy and feel so smooth. Not a single rough edge - perfect takeoffs and landings. They have my dream job.

[joey45]

A very logical and natural transition from "Tiger Moth" to the Spit... :)

 

DCS: Tiger Moth confirmed... :megalol:

[TWC_SLAG]

Yes. Have the same stick.

The only axes too much sensitiv is the pitch for me

Roll and yaw are ok and curvature linear

 

On the pitch axes do a huge 45% curvature and a litle deadzone of 3 or 5

You can also on pitch do a 80% on y part of the curvature

 

Also on the manifold pressure slider I did a special setting to have more precision on low pressure for landing and fight against torque effects

 

So far with this settings. It s perfect for dogfights aerobatics and precise 3 points landings.

 

 

This sounds worth trying. Could you expand on the "manifold pressure slider I did a special setting", I don't understand what to do, there

 

Thanks.

[philstyle]

This sounds worth trying. Could you expand on the "manifold pressure slider I did a special setting", I don't understand what to do, there

Thanks.

 

 

 

I'm guesing he used an "S" curve on the "throttle" (manifold fuel pressure).

Setting it to about 15-20% curvature would mean that at the top and bottom of the input / slider, the amount of throttle change would be less than 1:1 (which is what you would get with a linear curve all the way up).

 

 

Doing this would provide more fine control over the input at the top and bottom of the input range.

[TWC_SLAG]

I'm guesing he used an "S" curve on the "throttle" (manifold fuel pressure).

Setting it to about 15-20% curvature would mean that at the top and bottom of the input / slider, the amount of throttle change would be less than 1:1 (which is what you would get with a linear curve all the way up).

 

 

Doing this would provide more fine control over the input at the top and bottom of the input range.

 

That sounds right, I'll see how it all works. When I read "slider" I pictured the slider on the joystick, which I don't use.

 

Thanks,

[snowsniper]

This sounds worth trying. Could you expand on the "manifold pressure slider I did a special setting", I don't understand what to do, there

 

Thanks.

 

 

here it is :

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3087762&postcount=3

 

be aware it's very personal taste depending of your joystick sensibility and feeling just to conteract the "short joystick" and not so precise midle zone.

 

I think it's good to master the spit and to ease formation flying and landing

of course the more you feel confortable, the more you can decrease the curvature

[Knock-Knock]

Just chipping in regarding the Spitfire elevator sensitivity.

Was watching these two programs about the Spitfire yesterday

 

Spitfire Sisters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez81N-YFGtM

 

Spitfire: Inflight video and take off procedures

 

In both its mentioned by many, that the Spit had very sensitive controls for the elevator.

In the last one its said, that the aileron and rudders are tough, especially at speed, while the elevator is very delicate and can be controlled with the fingertips. 33:00 min into the 2nd video, for example.