DCS and Pimax

[Hellcat]

80Hz .....getting closer....

 

PIMAX

To be clarify, the screens installed in V2 and V3 HMD aren’t limited to 75 FPS. The Driver IC’s capability upper limit is ~90Hz under upscale mode. Actually we already implemented a very stable 82Hz FPS. And Unstable 85Hz and 87Hz. We’re keeping trying. But there’s might some risk not achieve the stability with the higher FPS. We will update a risk analysis before the kickstarter compaign end, so let our backers have their owner assessment regarding this risk. Thanks for your understanding.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Hellcat

[SkateZilla]

It's a 30fps "fluent" video.

An ingame fps counter would have been interesting for this 8K + gtx1070 test.

 

PiMax 8K still only Accepts a 5K Horizontal Video Signal

[Lensman]

"Pimax’s Kickstarter has passed the $3 million mark over the weekend, bringing them to $3.2 million and unlocking free eye-tracking module for every one of their backers who chose a VR headset funding tier."

 

Article here at Road to VR

Pimax Kickstarter Nears $3.5M With Less Than a Week Left, Free Eye-tracking Module Unlocked

 

Properly working VR eye tracking will have to be seen to be believed :music_whistling:

[Buckeye]

Properly working VR eye tracking will have to be seen to be believed :music_whistling:

 

I can't wrap my head around how it's an add-on that just now was reached as something they will offer, and somehow they are supposed to have it ready for delivery by mid-2018? Seems like such a short development timeline.

 

I personally think Pimax is ahead of their ski's on a lot of things they've signed up for, and I definitely have my doubts, but damn it if I wouldn't LOVE to be 100% wrong on all of that. They would have my money in record time if they can deliver.

[frogger]

that video looks very dark through the lens are they using shutter filters like they did on the 4k ?

[Lensman]

that video looks very dark through the lens are they using shutter filters like they did on the 4k ?

 

Shutter filters? nah..it's Brain Warp :smilewink:

[remi]

This looks ages ahead of what you would get with a 1st gen Vive or Rift.

 

It'll be nice to finally read cockpit gauges properly in VR, unlike what you get with the Rift.

[dogbite]

This looks ages ahead of what you would get with a 1st gen Vive or Rift.

 

It'll be nice to finally read cockpit gauges properly in VR, unlike what you get with the Rift.

 

 

It would be nice if we had a video that showed that. So far I haven't seen anything with the actual "thru the lens" footage that would look any different on a Rift. NOT SAYIN that it won't. Just that the Pimax video through the lens does nothing to prove it's better. It only shows the game will run at some yet to be determined res and fps. Having run the video at 1080p on my 150" wall I will say that even though I can't read the gauges, at that size, I can see the SDE and artifacts that look like those ASW leaves in the Rift. Probably their BrainWarp version of ATW. How all that looks with the thing on is awaiting January/February.

I look forward to actual feedback from the kickers who play DCS and the ED Team when they get theirs on their rigs. The Pimax videos really don't do anything for their marketing. In fact the lack of determining information makes many of us hold until more demonstrative information is at hand. I hope when this happens, it nails every claim about it. I really do.

[nicka117]

It would be nice if we had a video that showed that. So far I haven't seen anything with the actual "thru the lens" footage that would look any different on a Rift. NOT SAYIN that it won't. Just that the Pimax video through the lens does nothing to prove it's better. It only shows the game will run at some yet to be determined res and fps. Having run the video at 1080p on my 150" wall I will say that even though I can't read the gauges, at that size, I can see the SDE and artifacts that look like those ASW leaves in the Rift. Probably their BrainWarp version of ATW. How all that looks with the thing on is awaiting January/February.

I look forward to actual feedback from the kickers who play DCS and the ED Team when they get theirs on their rigs. The Pimax videos really don't do anything for their marketing. In fact the lack of determining information makes many of us hold until more demonstrative information is at hand. I hope when this happens, it nails every claim about it. I really do.

 

Exactly. I'm rooting for them. Of course I want them to succeed so I can do hi-res passes at the boat with the F-18..........but I'm pretty skeptical right now.

[StandingCow]

I can't wrap my head around how it's an add-on that just now was reached as something they will offer, and somehow they are supposed to have it ready for delivery by mid-2018? Seems like such a short development timeline.

 

I personally think Pimax is ahead of their ski's on a lot of things they've signed up for, and I definitely have my doubts, but damn it if I wouldn't LOVE to be 100% wrong on all of that. They would have my money in record time if they can deliver.

 

The eye tracker will apparently come later on, I do not believe it is being delivered with the headsets initially.

[StandingCow]

An apology and explanation from the pimax team: http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/apology-letter-project-status-and-risks/3920

 

"Hi Pimax community:

Please accept our sincere apologies that we made a mistake on the communication, and the team didn’t address 75Hz/90Hz issue in time and precisely, both with our staffs and community. That’s our fault!

First of all, no doubt the 4K CLPL display panel supports 90Hz, and another project with Qualcomm platform can reach stable 90Hz. What’s more, the whole system including cable/interface/processor/display panels is all designed for running 90Hz.

As you know, our previous solution is using 2HDMI 1.4b. then we moved to 1DP1.4 solution by introducing a new interface chipset. During the first round roadshow (V1.5 with two HDMI cables, each cable is ~2 meter), we did some steam VR games demo ( The Blu and Fruit Nijia ), and the games can run up to 90Hz at that time, but not so stable, sometimes we have to spend ~1 hour to run the demo successfully, by keep trying plug in\plug out\restart computer. Even we succeed in demoing the game at 90Hz, some frame skips occurred, that’s why Tested reviewer feel some random lags while playing Fruit Nijia. At begin, we though it’s individual issue. After the first round roadshow, we got more time to investigate this issue deeply and finally found the stability has something to do with the frame rate: higher frame rate, worse stability, and no improvement on V2 version (2*HMDI with 3.5-meter cable plus some other design changes). Unfortunately, the stability of high frame rate (>85Hz) is a little bit worse in the new DP solution(V3 prototype). The firmware engineers took a wrong assumption that they can fix this issue soon and just make a simple decision to lower down the refresh rate to 75Hz for new public demos.

Here, our team did a bad job in communicating internally and externally, and didn’t update real status in time with the staffs in the events. We admit, we did drop the ball by neglecting to relay this to staff at the events. Our new staffs tried their best to answer as many questions as possible during the demo show, but obviously not ideal when they don't have all of the information!

Internally, when we meet the challenge, the first thing comes to our engineers' mind is to solve it by ourselves, other than let the community know as soon as possible. We definitely need to be more transparent and update our progress with the community more frequently in the future.

Here we have learned the lessons and take some actions to prevent such thing happen again.

Action 1 - We will share our progress with the community more frequently. especially when we find some new issues or challenges.

Action 2 - We will provide better training for our reps to make sure they only answer the questions that they know clearly. If they are not sure, we will make sure they get back to the team to get answers instead of to give a rough guess.

Action 3 - We will provide better training to teach the team becomes more effective in internal and external communication. especially for new staffs.

So we have updated the risk analysis as below to let our backers do the final assessment before Kickstarter campaign end.

Although we have still been a small team, we are expanding actively and have new faces joining us every week. We understand we have allocated most of our resources in R&D and have limited resources in marketing and communication, and we didn't take time to provide all of our staffs proper, professional, and enough training in terms of communication.

Meanwhile, it is our first time to meet with global enthusiasts and backers in person, who are usually professional and even expert in VR. We are still learning the best way to communicate with people from all different regions and cultural backgrounds. If we made mistakes, please let us know and we will do analysis and improve next time.

We are passionate about VR and work very hard. We will do out best and always stick with our goal of creating the best VR experience ever.

Thanks for your support, understanding, and criticize, we will keep learning as an organization, enhance communication, be stronger and deliver even better products to our community.

Best Regards,

The Pimax Team and, Robin Weng, the founder of Pimax VR

8K project risks

Refresh rate The display panel supports 90Hz according to it's specification, and it has proven a stable 90Hz in another project. The display port is DP1.4 and the chip we used supports DP1.4 as well. So theoretically, Pimax 8K can support 90Hz.

But the stability is much important because our HMD should work out of the lab in thousands of computers condition. In the past two weeks, we have done more stress tests from 75Hz to 85Hz base on V3 hardware (latest DP 1.4 solution). Up to now, the 80Hz is confirmed stable. 82Hz just pass the initial test standard. And now we’re trying to optimize on 85Hz and 87Hz. Since 90Hz is the upper limit of the whole system. Several hardware reasons might make the refresh rate drop: the clock rate, cable length, display adapter FPC, EMI desense issue. Contact impedance from different Video Card’s DP connectors, etc.

Native resolution and frame rate per eye base on latest DP V3 prototype:

3840x2160 @ 80Hz (no risk, passed sufficient stability test, guaranteed) 3840x2160 @ 85Hz (medium risk, not passed initial stability test, not guaranteed) 3840x2160 @ 90Hz (high risk, not pass initial stability test, not guaranteed)

We will keep updating the progress. In a worse scenario where the refresh rate falls between 80 - 85Hz in the final product, we believe we can still guarantee to deliver the best VR experience with dual 4K resolution panels 、200 degree FOV and lighthouse tracking system, plus some other methods, such as the ASW/ATW/Brainwarp.

As we all know, the below facts of MTP (motion to photo)

MTP = sensor response time + GPU rendering time + 1/refresh rate + display switching time The refresh rate is one fact of the MTP. Not all facts. There’re many other solutions could get good MTP performance.

Pimax 8K Module Status and Pimax Realizations Policy All backers, thanks for your strong supports. As you know, our 8K HMD is modular designed, so we ourselves will mainly focus on the HMD devices developments and provide interfaces to partners, as for the modules, we will mainly open to 3rd party vendors.

We will open HDK for modular design, hope more and more partners and DIY enthusiasts to join us to create various exciting modules!

Please check the latest status as follows:

Eye tracking We have 3 partners, one of them have already produced commercial level eye tracking module for vive, the other one is Adhawk introduced by our backer. We are evaluating the technical solutions and the detailed schedule, our target is to ship the modules from Q2 2018. Risk level: low

Wireless Our partner has the experience on commercial wireless products, we are working with our partner in adaptation, the shipping time estimated to be Q3 2018. Risk level: medium

Hand motion module We have finished the technical verifications and demo, currently working with our key partners on the detailed schedule. Risk level: low

Inside-out tracking We have designed the interface, currently working with partners with the detailed schedule. Risk level: low

Scent enabling We are working with Japanese partner to discuss the solution and development schedule Risk level: low

VR frame/cooling fan Estimated to ship on Q2 2018. Risk level: no risk

All in one module Will be developed in-house. Estimated to ship on Q3 2018. Risk level: low"

[wormeaten]

All is going good.

Basically all this information I was get true different sources but if you are tracking progress of 8K developing all this informations was available.

But this is good and Pimax should do the list of the features with time line similar as ED doing for DCS modules.

This is must have to prevent lot of wrong information based on partially taken information and more on wrong assumption. This is the only proper way such trolling.

[Hellcat]

Thanks for the post StandingCow ...Looks good to me too....

[StandingCow]

Thanks for the post StandingCow ...Looks good to me too....

 

Yea, I might just hold on to my pledge now. :)

[Bogey Jammer]

Scent ? :fear:

[Lensman]

Scent ? :fear:

 

Hmmm...cordite and aviation fuel maybe? :lol:

[pegon]

As a gentleman, i naturally prefer napalm. But of course, this goes without saying.

[dogbite]

No napalm. There are certain medicinal plants that need saving. They help me GROK why "goes without saving" always seems to follow that which is said. I say this having found a better way to ignite some plants than napalm.

 

 

Maybe all of that could have gone without saying-sorry. hehe

[pegon]

It does add a certain "me being in the right" to the sentence. However, i really don`t see the point in adding a "smelly module" to the HMD.

 

I will take mine without, thanks.

[dburne]

Smelley module add on?

Lol, you got to be kidding me...

[wormeaten]

I got smelly modul for free. Just need to eat lot of beans.

[Koriel]

I've managed to get the early bird 8K pledge without any addons.

 

I wil later today, or eary tomorrow cancel my pledge. That means another spot in the early pledge which is limited ($50 discount) opens up. I don't know if it's possible, but perhaps some kind of arrangement can be made where a forum member and I settle on a time, I withdraw, and he/she picks up the spot in the early bird 8K.

 

There are 2 reasons for my decision:

 

I'm still confused to what I really need as far as base stations and such and I've never gotten a clear answer from Pimax. With this inside out tracking and such. So I'm a bit weary spending such an amount and later finding out I need to get the base stations or other addons.

 

Second reason is that I've had the Rift for about a week and I got nausea when gaming and I've found the resolution to be lacking. I subsquently sold the rift again. I don't want to take the risk with the 8K without any real feedback from the community. I can always get it at a later date.

 

I just set the private message options on the forum to send me an email. So just PM me with your own email or whatsapp number and we'll decide on a time to pull the plug for me and step in for you. No idea if this will work, but it's still a $50 discount.

[StandingCow]

I've managed to get the early bird 8K pledge without any addons.

 

I wil later today, or eary tomorrow cancel my pledge. That means another spot in the early pledge which is limited ($50 discount) opens up. I don't know if it's possible, but perhaps some kind of arrangement can be made where a forum member and I settle on a time, I withdraw, and he/she picks up the spot in the early bird 8K.

 

There are 2 reasons for my decision:

 

I'm still confused to what I really need as far as base stations and such and I've never gotten a clear answer from Pimax. With this inside out tracking and such. So I'm a bit weary spending such an amount and later finding out I need to get the base stations or other addons.

 

Second reason is that I've had the Rift for about a week and I got nausea when gaming and I've found the resolution to be lacking. I subsquently sold the rift again. I don't want to take the risk with the 8K without any real feedback from the community. I can always get it at a later date.

 

I just set the private message options on the forum to send me an email. So just PM me with your own email or whatsapp number and we'll decide on a time to pull the plug for me and step in for you. No idea if this will work, but it's still a $50 discount.

 

For your first reason, if you have a vive already you can use those base stations and controllers. If you don't have a vive then you need the entire setup (base stations, controllers).

 

For the second reason, you have to be careful about the types of games you play and the FPS you are getting on those games... there is also the issue of building up your "VR legs". I get motion sick VERY easily in cars, but have yet to get sick in VR because I am really careful and build up a tolerance. You can also take ginger pills to help.

 

Just thought I would chime in. :)

[Hellcat]

For your first reason, if you have a vive already you can use those base stations and controllers. If you don't have a vive then you need the entire setup (base stations, controllers).

 

For the second reason, you have to be careful about the types of games you play and the FPS you are getting on those games... there is also the issue of building up your "VR legs". I get motion sick VERY easily in cars, but have yet to get sick in VR because I am really careful and build up a tolerance. You can also take ginger pills to help.

 

Just thought I would chime in. :)

 

If you just play sit down VR Flight/racing sims you just need one base station right?

[Hellcat]

New Vid Pimax 8k Updated Impressions & In-Depth Interview with Ru Wang (Sr. Marketing Director of Pimax)