ericinexile Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 Over the past few days I've been reading the "...From the Russian Forums" thread which discusses future additions to the Flanker/Lock-On franchise. That thread really hit home for me the massive amount of work involved in getting additions to the market. That further led me to ponder how a product with such a small market but which also requires so many thousands of man-hours to get ready for publication can really be financially worthwhile to the developer. Why do it? I can see it for Halo. I can even see it for IL2. But a super-niche-sim like Lock-on just doesn't make business-sense. I know I'm just an end-user and this stuff really is none of my business but the process of developing and marketing a product has always piqued my curiosity. I must really be missing something because if I were running ED, I think I would have either given up or joined the FPS bandwagon long ago. Smokin' Hole Smokin' Hole My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.
GGTharos Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 The problem is you're looking at only half the world ... What's the population in China? Lock on sells there... What if 1 in 5000 people buy the game there? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
SuperKungFu Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 shhhhh, don't give them the idea of quitting. This genre is small enough :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
EvilBivol-1 Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 My favorite subject. Why flight sim developers do what they do, despite the fact that it makes no business sense. IMHO: In the past, project development was funded by the publishers, who in turn got to call the shots on the project and a share of the profit. But, because publishers tend to be normal business entities, unlike the developers, who tend to be personally inclined to do the kind of work they choose, they quickly abandoned the modern combat sim genre as development resources began to skyrocket with more powerful PCs available to take on more complex simulations, while the profit margins did not. Lock On was, as far as I can tell, the last modern combat sim published under that classic scheme. With no publishers willing to bank roll development, the Devs who decide to pursue their passion must devise other means of funding. In ED's case, they already had a platform on which they could build add-ons, which provide a revenue stream while they work on their next generation sim. For other companies, like XSI, no viable platform was available, so a different approach was taken. Still another option is to plan on charging higher per-item price, like SBPro-PE developers decided to do. Please don't consider any of the above as anything more than personal opinions based on general observations. - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules
ericinexile Posted January 17, 2007 Author Posted January 17, 2007 The problem is you're looking at only half the world ... What's the population in China? Lock on sells there... What if 1 in 5000 people buy the game there? 12 people will buy it and 27 million will copy it. StarForce can't stop 'em all. Smokin' Hole My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.
Meyvn Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 many sims today have alternative channels to go to the end users. Such as rfactors, live for speed, incoming FighterOPS and many titles from battlefront including Theater of War had their own distributing networks. Using these alternative distributing network, I think the developer team avoid many cost thus make it possible to make sim for such a small market.
Meyvn Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 Oh, and I am not sure. It seems like titles like IL2, Lock on sells well in Russia
Ardillita Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 In my opinion, the so called "small sim market" is not so small if we talk in world numbers and what those world numbers mean in terms of $$$. Let´s supose in all the world there are 100.000 sim players? each one paying $15... that makes $1.500.000. $15 is a very cheap price, I have myself used pyrate copyes, but only because those games were about $100 (dolars) a copy, wich in my country is a lot of money. Hell, 50 dollars are too much here for a game, but 15? $20? I pay that for a game/sim that really likes my. I have paid for flanker 2.X, lockon, FC and I will do it for future version if the price is good and in my opinion, any of those 100.000 sim players arounf the world most probably think this way. And that half and a millon dolars I think is good enough profit for an expansion. What I really don´t think is well done are the long development times we are seeing. Of course if those times are too long, that millon dollars won´t be enough. And, I think that my suposed numerber of sim players is quit short. Im sure there must be more than 100.000 players aound the whole world.
S77th-GOYA Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 Figures from just over 1 year ago (quoted from a post by Vapor) U.S. Only Sales Figures FS 2004....................units 677,300.....$28,400,000 Lock-on....................units 51,000........$1,500,000 Pacific Fighters..........units 41,100........$1,500,000 Wings Over Vietnam....units 29,300..........$823,300 Falcon 4.0: AF...........units 19,500..........$574,400
Deadman Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 If you have ever been to the former sovit union you will find few people that have all their eggs in one basket. Lock on and its add ons my be only one piece of Eagle Dynamics buisness https://forum.dcs.world/topic/133818-deadmans-cockpit-base-plans/#comment-133824 CNCs and Laser engravers are great but they can't do squat with out a precise set of plans.
Colt40Five Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 We already know that they are leveraging their code for the battle simulator or whatever it is they are calling the product they are marketing as a military training aid, as well as the desktop A-10C sim for the US ANG. Gov't contracts are the big $$$. We should feel lucky to reap the benefits of that business. I think the future is bright for ED. My biggest fear is that Russian/US relations may go south over Iran or oil or a million other things and they will cut us off from the good stuff! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Deadman Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 I was speaking of project that they may have that we know nothing about that may or may not be with Fighter collection https://forum.dcs.world/topic/133818-deadmans-cockpit-base-plans/#comment-133824 CNCs and Laser engravers are great but they can't do squat with out a precise set of plans.
Willy p. Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 LockOn in the box=$20.00 FC add on=$35.00 Saitek X45=$78.00 1Gig Ram=$100.00 BFG 6800GT OC=$235.00 TrackIR 3Pro=$110.00 (w/HL discount) Track IR Vector=$45.00 Smoking your opponent online= Priceless! 1 44th_Willy p. 187 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] http://44thvfw.org
veit Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 For most developers, the publishers are the ones who fund most of the work, but for jet sims in recent years, this obviously isn't the case. I can't speculate on whether Russia/China sells enough units to keep ED afloat. I would think the battle simulator contributes a large part to their production revenue. I've also heard that Black Shark was contracted by third party interested in seeing a Russian attach chopper being modeled, which explains the curious direction that ED decided to take in developing a helicopter sim for the third expansion. I suspect most LOMAC simmers would only buy it for the peripheral improvements and are only nominally interested in flying the chopper itself. But, if this continues the development cycle, it's better than nothing. I personally don't really care much for a helicopter simulation, but hopefully it will be a springboard for more advanced fighter aircraft modeling.
GGTharos Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 That is exactly what it will be, among other things. But believe me ... you will fly the chopper. You'll get curious one day and then ... Curiosity leads to the rotorhead side. :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Highwayman-Ed Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 Have no doubt about that... I WILL fly the chopper... If it's as good as it looks, and I can learn enough Russian to read the instruments, guages and switches for the 6DOF cockpit (or the "tool tips" are good enough) I may well hang up my hogs wings! :shocking: For my sins, I'm also sucker enough to buy almost anything with "Flight Simulator" in the description just to support the genre... Intel i9-9900KF @5.2GHz MSI Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon 32GB G.Skill Trident Z DDR3200 RAM MSI RTX 2080 Ti Gaming X Trio 40" Panasonic TH-40DX600U @ 4K Pimax Vision 8K Plus / Oculus Rift CV1 / HTC Vive Gametrix JetSeat with SimShaker Windows 10 64 Bit Home Edition [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 The tools tips work well enough for me... also the operation procedures aren't as complicated as they may first seem: A couple hours and you'll have almost all the switchology down, despite the sheer volume of stuff you can do. No need to know Russian either as must isntruments are showing you numbers ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Colt40Five Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 Dang I'm getting sick of waiting.... I mean I know it'll be done when it's done..but damn every time I watch GA's "Project 50"....dammit!!! Who do I have to kill to be a beta tester?? lol [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
leafer Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 And if ED did give up and join the FPS bandwagon, I bet they'll set standard on realism in that genre, then turned it into a nich market. LoL Wouldn't that be something... Think uber crack unit with uber realistic weapons and ballistic modeling. They'll model the sucking wound extra uber rare and bloody just to make it R rated. Why can't I be dropping 'em like flies at hundred yards away in full auto mode anymore? ED have been taking my money since 1995. :P
Highwayman-Ed Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 When I create my Black Shark/TouchBuddy profile, everything will be in english. Not only that but TB does one better than a clickable pit. You use your finger instead of a mouse. ;) Hmmm.... Now there is a thought... Might be time to see if the touch screens have gotten any cheaper here in Aus... Intel i9-9900KF @5.2GHz MSI Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon 32GB G.Skill Trident Z DDR3200 RAM MSI RTX 2080 Ti Gaming X Trio 40" Panasonic TH-40DX600U @ 4K Pimax Vision 8K Plus / Oculus Rift CV1 / HTC Vive Gametrix JetSeat with SimShaker Windows 10 64 Bit Home Edition [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
leafer Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 You use your finger instead of a mouse. ;) No wonder I scared the girls away, been using the little fury thing all this time! Thanks, rugg... ED have been taking my money since 1995. :P
Zuki Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 12 people will buy it and 27 million will copy it. StarForce can't stop 'em all. I have yet to see Lock on un-starforced. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "Zuki" Resident mud mover CH HOTAS untill it breaks(for life)! Not affiliated with any "squad":thumbup:
ZoomBoy27 Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 2 other factors are: - the Russian Market where they can sell lots more copies because the interest is very much higher - Any western sales they get, the hard currency goes about 7 times further ZoomBoy My Flight Sims Page - Link to My Blog - Sims and Things - DCS Stuff++ - Up-to-Speed Guides to the old Lockon A10A and Su-25T - Some missions [needs update]
Force_Feedback Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 Not to mention that part of the dev team works/worked/will work on Russian and US military trainers, it's fine with me if that's classified or something, but just keep in mind that they also make trainers for the Russian military, so think about it next time you boot lomac. Also, every time you insert the disc, 10 kittens are sent to hell straight away... Yes, I'm a big ass h4x0r, yeah, nothing can stop me, not even the disc check. I just installed the download version :/ Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy:
Pilotasso Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 I have yet to see Lock on un-starforced. Yep, furtheremore for each patch going out, the process would have to start all over again leaving you sucking your thumb again. :D .
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