Comments from an Eagle pilot

[fretwear]

No it's not me! LOL :pilotfly: I'm copy/pasting his original comments about the performance of Lock-On's F-15 here.

 

Quoting Noidskie...

 

"How they have misrepresented and crippled the American aircraft in this game. I was walking thru CompUSA the other day with my son and he spots this game, and asks for it. I am currently on active flight duty with the Oregon Air Guard and Fly the F-15c, and since that was one of the planes represented in this game I thought great, he likes all things Eagle this would be a perfect title for him. We get it home and installed, and all I can say is BOY! What a joke! The graphics and gameplay were fine, and although I don't expect any realism from the game in regards to Avionics, I do expect an ACCURATE representation of the capabilities of the aircraft in question. The Eagle in the game is NO WHERE near accurately represented. It has trouble doing Mach speeds, will not gate climb or even, perform basic maneuvers without stalling or going into a flat spin. At first I thought that since this was a game for kids they just "Dummed" down all of the planes to make them easy for non pilots to fly, but low and behold I flew one of the Russian jets(SU-27) and it handled the way (I would assume have never flown one)it should and out performed the F-15 in the way an F-16 would outperform a Cessna. The A-10 was no better. Now 2 things to note, #1 I realize this title is no longer in production so this is a mute point, and #2 that it was created by a Russian game developer so they probably centered the game on there aircraft. I just wish they would not present it as an "Aircombat" game as really what it is, is a game that was designed to let you fly and enjoy the Russian jets and let you use American aircraft as the "Fish" in the barrel for you to shoot. For all of you out there would like to simulate more closely what the American aircraft can really do I would recommend Janes Strike Eagle(another dead title)or Falcon 4.0 (Yet another dead title) as they both represent the American jets in the capacity at which they can perform rather than just being targets for another aircraft".

 

To see the entire thread go here... http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/38610606/m/1661097035/p/1

 

 

I'm posting this in hopes of bringing Noidskie here for the ED developers to engage and perhaps, improve Lock On. Who knows...I'd think they'd like to talk to a real Eagle driver who wouldn't? :)

[pschelchshorn]

like Eagle Dynamics is interested in improving the Eagle..... :D

im rather havin a beer right now :beer: ive moved on

Flip

[Olgerd]

like Eagle Dynamics is interested in improving the Eagle..... :D

im rather havin a beer right now :beer: ive moved on

Flip

 

We are interested in it indeed. Just some time is needed for that. Not right now.

[jurinko]

There are two ex A-10 pilots posting at SimHQ and they both appreciate A-10 flight model as very good, maybe the top speed is a bit low.

 

Guess what happens if the Eagle driver would try IL-2 Sturmovik ;)

[MBot]

I wonder what this Eagle-Flanker encounter should be. Who is operating Flankers close to Saudi Arabia, Isreal or Japan ? Only Russia, China and Ethiopia, right ? Or does Syria has Sues too ?

 

 

And I wonder what is wrong about the A-10, that thing performs great. Perhaps even too great, after having flown the AFM Su-25 I quit using the A-10 because it feels like cheating :)

[GGTharos]

Ethiopia did have mercenaries over there, so it could have seen Saudis, but I just don't see that happening.

 

Japan and China? ... hmmm ...

 

As far as the A-10 goes: The 'real deal' would feel like cheating to you too then ;)

At least, as far as I've heard from pilots, it is that easy to fly. No, the SFM doesn't handle everything (extreme conditions in particular) but the difference between what you'd get in 'normal flight' between AFM and SFM A-10 should not be particularly great. Including the landing.

[*Rage*]

How do we know he is a real pilot and not someone ranting about how their favourite plane is poorly modelled?

[MBot]

I guess at some point we will see... :) What realy flaws the A-10 expierience at the moment is the fact that ordinance has almost zero impact on your performance. You can hang the thing up with Mk-84 and still do the full programm. While in reality the the Hog was limited to 2/4 Mavs in order to keep the vital NOE ability.

 

The impact weapons have on yourr aircraft is a aspect I enjoy very much on the Su-25. You have to give much tought in your loadout and it is always a tradeoff.

[GGTharos]

We don't. For now, until otherwise proven, benefit of the doubt.

I do happen to know a real F-15C pilot who shares the general opinion about aerodynamic performance.

[GGTharos]

I guess at some point we will see... :) What realy flaws the A-10 expierience at the moment is the fact that ordinance has almost zero impact on your performance. You can hang the thing up with Mk-84 and still do the full programm. While in reality the the Hog was limited to 2/4 Mavs in order to keep the vital NOE ability.

 

The impact weapons have on yourr aircraft is a aspect I enjoy very much on the Su-25. You have to give much tought in your loadout and it is always a tradeoff.

 

 

Yes, this is certainly quite true - SFM does not take this into account.

As for the 2/4 mavs, that's a drag (and thus fuel) issue, not a NOE issue (and it used to be a burned tire issue too, but no more).

 

I think though, the way weapons are released from the A-10, you wouldn't get problems as big as you get on the 25 ... just because usually in the 25 you're releasing bigger weapons.

 

BTW, I don't like that you can DROP an Mk84 at 100' and not get hurt, either :P

[MBot]

As for the 2/4 mavs, that's a drag (and thus fuel) issue, not a NOE issue (and it used to be a burned tire issue too, but no more).

 

Well, small drag is also mandatory for NOE. If you can't accelerate quickly after a hard turn you will run out of energy pretty soon. And not having energy to maneuver is nothing you want to happen to you in the weeds in hostile territory :)

 

 

Good point with the blastradius btw. A rule of thumb to avoid bomb fragmentations in multi-aircraft strikes is at least 3000ft lateral seperation or 3000ft altitude seperation or 30 seconds time seperation for a Mk-82 ! But I guess that goes into ADM ( Advanced Destructive Model ) :)

[GGTharos]

I don't know, I think you'd be getting rid of these mavs pretty quick. Remember, the A-10's original goal was to whittle down enemy tank formations in Europe :)

[nscode]

And there are even more explosive things modeled with even smaller effect on you (and things around).. Eg. oil tanks :) man.. those things shake the entire city and turn night into day for a few seconds when they go off (trust me :))

[Kula66]

We are interested in it indeed. Just some time is needed for that. Not right now.

 

Look forward to that Olgred ... glad to get the updates on LO:BS too. Thanks!

[Pilotasso]

The pilots comments torwards the F-15 might have come from the fact he doesnt quite controll the plane as the real thing for the stick handling is also very different. Yes the Real F-15 does outclimb it badly, but I dont think thats even the biggest issue in this SIM.

 

I have worse problems in using typical f-15 tactics, despite that I DO try use them every day I fly in it. Radar perfomance and missile perfomance are the biggest items, IMHO they are utterly useless in many scenarios. But I dont have to elaborate on that, we have discussed it here in detail before.

Once AFM is implemented in a future SIm Im sure these will be overcome, weapons and sensors might not be. These depend much on the programers own common sense, and I bet any western planes in future ED's SIM's will still have issues about them. I make my own prediction here that the Mig-29SMT overall weapons capability is going to be a more powerfull plane than the F-16 will in the "Istribitili" SIM ;)

[JEFX]

*to NOIDSKIE *

 

Hi! and welcome to this great community.

 

It is fantastic to have the opinion and true knowledge of a reat F-15C pilot, even if it is not all positive...

 

Dont get offended by our fellows, we have such a tendency to be very proud of our hobby and its great airplanes, that, sometimes some people take it badly when one criticize their favorite plane (and it goes the same for russian bird lovers here...).

 

First of all, after several years of Falcon 4 (with several dances), I was myself a bit disapointed with the US avionics in Lockon... It is obvious also that the flight model of the F-15 is underpowered, compared to known data (climb speed, cruising alt, etc.). Despite that, it is fun and because of the glamour of the Eagle and Hog, it brought a lot of people to this fantastic game that would otherwise have ignored it.

 

I, for one, was a fan of the Viper and I thought, when I bought the game, that the F-15 would be my thing. It is definitly fun but the best part of that game, in my opinion reside in the realism of the Frogs.

 

Either the vanilla SU-25 or the 'T' model, both have a fantastic realistic (as people say, because I am not a pilot) flight model (advanced flight model AFM) and most weapons systems typical of their reallife counterparts. On top of that, the terrain is beautiful, the lightings, the weather and the possibility to populate the world with static objects, ships that interact, ground forces that operate on their own (even if their behavior can be somewhat limited), all that sums up to a very immersive world (especially for us, non-pilots who dream of it...).

 

I think that one way that would be the most realistic usage of the Lokon Flaming Cliffs engine, is to simulate a conflict between two opposite countries with the same russian hardware (I do a lot Russia against Ukraine, for example). There you can fly ground war with the Frogs, and for fun some A2A with the Flankers or Migs, but you are up against the same style and strenght of hardware. Plus you can mix some order hardware and newer, on both sides...

 

For me, that is more realistic, more even, and does better justice to the beauty of AFM in Lockon. AFM is a revolution in flight simulation, in my opinion. Landing a cripled frog with a crosswind without burning tires or cartwheeling in the fields is much fun!

 

Please, be welcome to this community!

 

 

JEFX

[leafer]

But he's not here, though. :D

[S77th-GOYA]

I don't know what Noidskie can say that hasn't already been said over and over here already.

 

The only ones who still don't believe that the F-15 is undermodelled simply don't want to believe it.

 

BTW:

 

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/756105611/m/9191006325?r=5421054425#5421054425

[jurinko]

I don't know, I think you'd be getting rid of these mavs pretty quick. Remember, the A-10's original goal was to whittle down enemy tank formations in Europe :)

 

Yep. These A-10 pilots mentioned before flew in W. Germany and their loadout was just two Mavericks, full gun and full load of flares.

[Colt40Five]

I'd be thrilled to wait till 2008 for LOBS if ED would do the Eagle justice!

[vistrel]

That guy is a retard and I smell a lot of bullshit.

 

First he says he bought that game in CompUSA or something, patched to 1.02 and HAS LATEST FLAMMING CLIFFS patch. Now wtf is that ? The only way you can get flamming cliffs is from internet store. And second, if he didnt like the game he bought in store why did he bother ordering FC online ? Oh, and then this talk about SU stealing technology from US. Yeah, right..funny dude. Oh, and saying Jane's F-15 has better FM than Lockon is gross.

 

If he is a pilot then I am an austronaut.

[EvilBivol-1]

BTW:

 

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...425#5421054425

 

I am currently on active flight duty with the Oregon Air Guard and Fly the F-15c

 

18B Weapons Sgt. U.S Army Special Forces 1985-1991

 

So this guy is supposed to be a former Army SF AND is an active F-15C driver with the National Guard?

Nice find, thanks. :rolleyes:

[Varry]

also he does not seems to know the difference between:

there's and theirs

and also

there and their....or they're for that matter

 

For a pilot that shows a big lack of education in his own language, I'm Belgian, and english is like my third language, and even i know this difference...

[hitman]

So this guy is supposed to be a former Army SF AND is an active F-15C driver with the National Guard?

Nice find, thanks. :rolleyes:

 

That doesnt necessarily mean hes not an officer now...He could have easily gone through Gunner School, ranked up high enough to get an officers commission and switch from army to air force. Nothing incorrect about that...

[hitman]

That guy is a retard and I smell a lot of bullshit.

 

First he says he bought that game in CompUSA or something, patched to 1.02 and HAS LATEST FLAMMING CLIFFS patch. Now wtf is that ? The only way you can get flamming cliffs is from internet store.

 

You can get Flaming Cliffs from CompUSA in the form of LOCKON Gold.