F/A18E/F Super Hornets block 1 and BLock 2 E/F ( lot 26)

[Gunfreak]

11 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

In my mind there isn't much that isn't worth it. That doesn't mean that the plane has be done right now, and have all other projects dropped, but I consider the issue of timing and release order to be separate.

The C5 can already kill up to about 80 nm in DCS. I wouldn't say no to more missiles, but the C7 isn't the highest on my priority list since it would totally outperform everything else. Even if I prefer the F-16 over any version of the Hornet, I think a Super Hornet would be more interesting than a single missile. It would fit into a lot of the scenarios I make in the ME where currently anything US Navy related only has the C Hornet.

C5 hasn't the battery for 80nm. Fired from 50 000 feet at mach 1.5  against a super sonic bomber coming straight at you. It will run out of battery if fired at more than 60nm.

I've tested and my record is 57nm.(Which is what the public data states is correct for C5) maybe if you mange to get your F16 at mach 2 find a MIG25 going mach 2.8+ straight at you on your radar it closes fast enough for a 80nm hit.

[SkateZilla]

8 hours ago, EA-18G_BlockII said:

VFA-94 also transition to the Echo
A lot of Foxtrot operators are switched to the Echo...Also what more interesting is the Block 3 Rhino we're seeing in those pics

 

With Block III, the USN only ordered Es and is only Rebuilding Es to Block III Spec at the Depo.

F's are being mothballed for parts for the Growlers if not converted to Block III Spec Growlers.

You dont really need a WSO Anymore w/ Block III.

[dueydrew]

+1

[Kev2go]

On 11/16/2023 at 2:44 PM, Gunfreak said:

Yes, it is superior to the old one, hence it being SUPER.

But the question is, is it super enough in the DCS limited environment to be worth the time and money to make it. 

I would be super happy to just get AIM-120C7 for my F16, the new radar now means you can see certain targets at 90nm even with the old block 50 radar, but you'll not hit anything at more than 55nm even under the most ideal circumstances with the AIM-120C5. The C7 would let you reach out and tuch enemies at 70-80nm. But seems like we'll be stuck with the C5 for the foreseeable future.

 

Not that i wouldnt like it, but ID be even more happy having a C7 on a F15E ( or a potential FF F15C). given it actually has a radar with a long enough detection range to take advantage of better missiles. 

 

[EA-18G_BlockII]

@SkateZilla sorry for digging this thread but what's your take on this recent news?

https://news.usni.org/2024/03/22/navy-makes-last-planned-super-hornet-buy-secures-technical-data-packages

Looks like the Foxtrot Rhino isnt gonna retire anytime soon?

[SkateZilla]

My Take:
The Navy is keeping Boeing on life support just in case they need them, there are already spec sheets on Lot 49, even though there are no domestic or FMS orders.

in 2025, they will buy another dozen.

Honestly though, 
F/A-18s are more cost effective per flight hour and more mission diverse than the F-35.

The Lot 40+ hornets have ridiculous capabilities that pretty much put it on par with the F-35 electronics wise, 

as far as RCS, and Stealth, the enemy is going to see a nice combo of bumble bees, seagulls and mockingjays on their radar.

If anyone is using RCS as the reason the F-35 is better than the super hornets, they don't understand, it's like comparing a baseball and a softball from 2 miles away. the RCS as small as it is, isn't going to make much difference..
 

Edited April 1, 2024 by SkateZilla

[EA-18G_BlockII]

but why buy more Foxtrots if the Block 3 Echo can do everything?

[SkateZilla]

6 minutes ago, EA-18G_BlockII said:

but why buy more Foxtrots if the Block 3 Echo can do everything?

Block III Foxtrots are decoupled cockpits and can be converted to growlers.

[SkateZilla]

36 minutes ago, EA-18G_BlockII said:

but why buy more Foxtrots if the Block 3 Echo can do everything?

Pilot Fatigue,

WSO does most of the look down and system operating, pilot just has to pilot the aircraft, instead of doing both.

and like i said, Foxtrots can be converted to and from growlers in the block III's, they are all pre-wired,

So essentially they are getting more airframes that can be used as growlers if needed.

[SharpeXB]

On 11/7/2023 at 4:09 PM, The_Nephilim said:

well either way we got an apache 64 and I could not be happier,  and I am trying to remain hopefull for a suberhornet that is all   

 

Sure. Someday 16 or so years from now this particular Super Hornet block will be out of service and declassified / open source. Then ED can make a modules and you all can exclaim, look ED changed their minds!

[SkateZilla]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Sure. Someday 16 or so years from now this particular Super Hornet block will be out of service and declassified / open source. Then ED can make a modules and you all can exclaim, look ED changed their minds!

Anything less than Lot 24 is already declassified, the problem is some of the manuals are simply not publicly available.

Block III Lot 26+ you have the same chance of seeing them as a F-16E Block 60 or 70

Edited April 1, 2024 by SkateZilla

[EA-18G_BlockII]

10 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Pilot Fatigue,

WSO does most of the look down and system operating, pilot just has to pilot the aircraft, instead of doing both.

and like i said, Foxtrots can be converted to and from growlers in the block III's, they are all pre-wired,

So essentially they are getting more airframes that can be used as growlers if needed.

so much for "one pilot can do everything with fancy new tech stuffs/everything is auto when you have F-35-like techs" that i heard many times then

Edited April 2, 2024 by EA-18G_BlockII

[wilbur81]

On 10/16/2023 at 8:08 AM, Gunfreak said:

More powerful engine, but also far heavier. It has lower thrust to weight ratio then the regular hornet and lower top speed.

So you'll get an even slower plane. Sure got more fuel, but that's about it.

This ^^^

As the pilots say, "There's nothing "Super" about the Super Hornet.

[SkateZilla]

8 hours ago, wilbur81 said:

This ^^^

As the pilots say, "There's nothing "Super" about the Super Hornet.

 

Those Articles comparing super to Legacy, were comparing Lot 18 to Lot 21 Legacy hornets to Lot22 to Lot 25 Super Hornets.
*Most of the comparisons were Lot 18, sometimes earlier, Lot 21 was mostly USMC Ds, and a Single C.

Those same pilots have likely not flown Lot 30+ Super Hornets, which is an entirely different cockpit workflow and electronics suite.

The Hornet base design from YF-17 through all the LRIP, A, B, C, D, LRIP E, F, G have all been draggy designs. and when you increase the size you increase the surface area that causes drag.

The *Canted* Pylons have minimal impact on the total drag vs *Straight Pylons*, Super Hornet has a lot of surface area regardless, and continues to struggle through transonic regime even in the clean configuration without win pylons.

The F-35C is just as draggy, the difference is they stuck a huge motor in it to push it through those transonic regimes. (a motor which is prone to problems, hence the replacement program).

F-14A and B have a similar top end, despite the GE Engine having significantly more thrust....  why? transonic and super sonic drag from the large surface area...

 

If they expect Super to mean twice the speed.. then they are mis-guided.

There's more factors that contribute to the name, More bring back, Less parts, Less maintenance, Better survivability, etc etc. 

 

Edited April 2, 2024 by SkateZilla

[EA-18G_BlockII]

Boeing to shutter Super Hornet line in 2027 after final Navy order: Boeing VP

https://breakingdefense.com/2024/04/boeing-to-shutter-super-hornet-line-in-2027-after-final-navy-order-boeing-vp/

[SkateZilla]

23 hours ago, EA-18G_BlockII said:

Boeing to shutter Super Hornet line in 2027 after final Navy order: Boeing VP

https://breakingdefense.com/2024/04/boeing-to-shutter-super-hornet-line-in-2027-after-final-navy-order-boeing-vp/

they said that last year.. lol.

[SOLIDKREATE]

I'd say just add the USMC 'D' model. Its the two seat version of the C and is probably way more doable.

[Hammer1-1]

2 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

they said that last year.. lol.

DCMA and Boeing signed the contract a few weeks ago, its a done deal now.  However, seeing how things are functioning here at Boeing at the moment, I wouldnt put it past the DoD to pull the military contracts away from all Boeing products at the moment until they pull their heads out of their butts. I see every day what DCMA overlooks on the MQ25 and Im just...blown away.

Edited April 7, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[_Hoss]

I worked for Boeing at NAS Lemoore from 1997 to June of 2021 at the C/D Avionics Repair Facility. Ive still got friends there in VFA-122s hanger mod supporting the C/Ds for the USMC. And just south of our hanger AE Com. are still doing SLEP work on the E/Fs, and there is a contract to turn some of them into Advanced Super Hornets. 

[EA-18G_BlockII]

16 hours ago, _Hoss said:

 there is a contract to turn some of them into Advanced Super Hornets. 

you mean the Block 3 right?

[SkateZilla]

14 hours ago, EA-18G_BlockII said:

you mean the Block 3 right?

There's a contract to convert low trap/hr Block II's to Block III's yes.

[SkateZilla]

Growlers are now certified to carry aim-9x on inboard and outboard stations, doubling their IR weapons from 2 to 4

So the new short range preferred symmetrical loadout is:
WING TIPS: AN/ALQ-218 x 2
OUTBOARD: AIM-9X x 2
MIDBOARD: AN/ALQ-99 HIGH BAND x 2
INBOARD: AIM-9X x 2 
INTAKE: AIM-120C x 2
CENTERLINE: AN/ALW-99 LOW BAND x 1

Long range is the same as before (replacing INBOARD AIM-9X's with AIM-7/120)

 

[draconus]

10 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

AIM-7

Do they actually stick it to the Superhornets?!

[SkateZilla]

57 minutes ago, draconus said:

Do they actually stick it to the Superhornets?!

AIM-7M's are mounted to Mid/Inner Pylons via LAU-115C, and Intake stations via LAU-116.

Whether or not it's a popular loadout, I doubt it.

if active jamming is going on, then the growlers are either going to carry AIM-9X's or HARMs

Edited April 10, 2024 by SkateZilla

[draconus]

2 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

AIM-7M's are mounted to Mid/Inner Pylons via LAU-115C, and Intake stations via LAU-116

Can be mounted or are actually mounted? I'm just surprised they're still in use, especially on new aircraft.

Edited April 10, 2024 by draconus