VR Zoom Limitations in DCS

[PUQE]

I started with Vive, no problems using zoom. Upgraded to Pro and no zoom from cockpit. However when I switch views to a view oiutside of the cockpit, a ground target for example, I can zoom in and zoom out until I can no longer see the target. I will give the toggle a try.

[Nodak]

muehlema,

 

I have the Oculus and fly in VR almost 100% of time. The Vive Pro may be better, but VR technology has a serious weakness with resolution, which makes combat a lot more difficult. The zoom feature is an aid that DCS felt necessary to help users overcome this shortfall.

 

A friend of mine has VR and he can use the zoom feature where I cannot. I tried the P-51 and the F-86 and they both have the same issue as the A-10C. Zoom works on my friends system using Oculus, but does not on mine.

 

I'm hoping there is a setting I'm overlooking that may fix this issue?

 

Bill

 

 

In the key binding list with every aircraft type, upper left, the very last set of keys isn't for an aircraft, but listed as UI. User interface, in it there's bindings for VR zoom, and centering. Also has bindings for mouse actions which you'll find very handy, you won't have to reach for you mouse if you have the buttons ever again. These UI bindings work universally for every module, and will over ride their key bindings once set to a dx key.

[TOViper]

In the key binding list with every aircraft type, upper left, the very last set of keys isn't for an aircraft, but listed as UI. User interface, in it there's bindings for VR zoom, and centering. Also has bindings for mouse actions which you'll find very handy, you won't have to reach for you mouse if you have the buttons ever again. These UI bindings work universally for every module, and will over ride their key bindings once set to a dx key.

 

 

Thanks for this valuable information, I missed this menu for a long time, but now I have found it again following your tip! :thumbup:

[SharpeXB]

Yes to both would (IMO) be the right solution.

If people want to use a telescope when in single player, that's their business.

The zoom view command is not unique to DCS, all flight sims have it. It’s used on a monitor for the same reason it’s available in VR, to make up for lack or resolution and in the case of a 2D screen to necessarily vary the FOV as well. The degree of magnification in DCS is consistent with other sims. Why it’s lesser for VR is probably because it distorts the image too much, I can’t imagine what a zoom view looks like in VR.

[mytai01]

People have unrealistic expectations about how easy it is to see objects in real life. As an air traffic controller, I see first hand what it's like to see aircraft and vehicles out the tower windows and I know how far they are from me. You'd be surprised how close things have to be to be seen...the VR is dead on. You would have a hard time seeing an F-18 flying at 10k feet...that's 2 miles away! Think about that!

Edited March 24, 2019 by mytai01

[Mr_sukebe]

The zoom view command is not unique to DCS, all flight sims have it. It’s used on a monitor for the same reason it’s available in VR, to make up for lack or resolution and in the case of a 2D screen to necessarily vary the FOV as well. The degree of magnification in DCS is consistent with other sims. Why it’s lesser for VR is probably because it distorts the image too much, I can’t imagine what a zoom view looks like in VR.

 

I'll say this again.

I really don't care what other people do in single player mode, it's their business if they want to use a telescope to spot enemies.

 

However, in multi-player, parity is what we should have between monitor and VR users for their zoom level. Right now, VR users get a very basic zoom, which I assume is probably x2. Monitor users seem to have something like x32. The difference is just ridiculous.

As an example, the last time I went on the BS server, I happily spotted an enemy at what I assume was 5 miles (as the BS server has their huge BLOB to help monitor users). However, I had no idea what that blob represented, i.e. friend of foe. Before I'd got close enough to try to ID the aircraft, the pilot had stuffed a bunch of cannon fire through my aircraft and killed my pilot.

Quite clearly, that is NOT parity.

 

I don't care how it's done, either by improving zoom for VR, or restricting it for monitor users, but something really does need to be done, as until then, you won't see me on BS or any other PvP server.

[D4n]

You would have a hard time seeing an F-18 flying at 10k feet...that's 2 miles away! Think about that!

 

doesn't it depend on the color of the sky aswell? Fighters are grey from the bottom (F-18 is), in grey sky, very hard to see, but what about blue sky? Wouldn't a grey aircraft be easy to see in blue sky if just 2 miles away (and if looking at it from the side)?

[Dagger71]

doesn't it depend on the color of the sky aswell? Fighters are grey from the bottom (F-18 is), in grey sky, very hard to see, but what about blue sky? Wouldn't a grey aircraft be easy to see in blue sky if just 2 miles away (and if looking at it from the side)?

A grey vehicle is very hard to see with any just about any background. It's the reason both navy ships and most military aircraft are painted grey in almost all militaries of the world.

[SharpeXB]

However, in multi-player, parity is what we should have between monitor and VR users for their zoom level. Right now, VR users get a very basic zoom, which I assume is probably x2. Monitor users seem to have something like x32. The difference is just ridiculous.

You realize that when you’re looking at a desktop sized monitor, zoomed in is actually closer to life sized. And the degree of zoom isn’t just related to FOV it’s about simulating 20/20 vision. Since you can’t increase the resolution the only solution is to make the image larger in order to simulate acuity. For the same reason it’s done for VR. The degree of zoom isn’t x32, it’s x5 or so, about comparable to what other flight sims have.

VR is still in an early stage of evolution. So the shortcomings are something you just have to deal with like any early adopter. Eventually VR headsets will get better resolution.

Why VR can’t have a higher zoom level I don’t know but handicapping monitor users isn’t going to be a solution that most players will accept.

[speed-of-heat]

You don't have to penalise monitor users, just providing an equivalent zoom in vr would also be fine

[Mr_sukebe]

You don't have to penalise monitor users, just providing an equivalent zoom in vr would also be fine

 

Quite, I don’t really care how it’s done.

[mytai01]

My point is that fighters and even bigger aircraft appear much smaller in real life than most people realize. The sky is very big and airplanes are really small. It can be hard to see airliners even 5 miles away at times...However, Contrast created by light from the sun reflecting off of the aircraft back to the observer makes more difference than any other factor in seeing aircraft...no matter what color the paint job is...including gray! (I'm not talking about glint from the sun bouncing off windscreens either, just contrast). I do it for a living...I know! I've included one of my personal photos of a pair of F-15's that are about 1 mile away from me in a photo with no zoom...this is how they look at about 1 mile...

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by mytai01

[speed-of-heat]

My point is that fighters and even bigger aircraft appear much smaller in real life than most people realize. The sky is very big and airplanes are really small. It can be hard to see airliners even 5 miles away at times...However, Contrast created by light from the sun reflecting off of the aircraft back to the observer makes more difference than any other factor in seeing aircraft...no matter what color the paint job is...including gray! (I'm not talking about glint from the sun bouncing off windscreens either, just contrast). I do it for a living...I know! I've included one of my personal photos of a pair of F-15's that are about 1 mile away from me in a photo with no zoom...this is how they look at about 1 mile...

 

[ATTACH]207411[/ATTACH]

all true, but, given the "sim" has a capability in 2d, why wouldn't you have the same capability in 3d, not disagreeing with you in terms of spotting, though I think this more about identification. But either put the capability in both or dont, the challenge today is the capability isn't the same, you have controls that nominally do similar thing... but it is not close to the same level of zoom in 2d vs 3d nor is it the same level of precision over control of the FOV.. e.g I can set the zoom in 2d on an axis and dial it to where I want fairly easily, I get an all or nothing button that I have to press and hold in 3d, that gives me about 1/3 to half the zoom of the 2d world.

[Fab]

Try with ip ingame at 40, its closer to irl, than the 60 some of you use...and set your pd down a bit....both things will make spotting easyer

[speed-of-heat]

ip? my pd is at 1.4... thats not the issue...

[speed-of-heat]

zoom is not really about spotting, as it reduces your fov, so your scanning more space. zoom at least for me, ymmv, is about both target identification and once acquired also about tracking intention etc...

[Campbell]

Try with ip ingame at 40, its closer to irl, than the 60 some of you use...and set your pd down a bit....both things will make spotting easyer

 

 

 

What FAB is trying to say, is lower your IPD setting from the default 63? (I think) to 40, this will make the cockpit more life size, maybe even a little to large and lower your Pixel Density (PD) a bit to help with spotting.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[mytai01]

zoom is not really about spotting, as it reduces your fov, so your scanning more space. zoom at least for me, ymmv, is about both target identification and once acquired also about tracking intention etc...

 

Honestly, without binoculars you really can't ID fighter sized or smaller targets more than one mile away. In fact, we were working a C-130 today and I was watching it without binoculars and it was five miles away and I couldn't say that it looked like anything but a dark blob (Not a vision problem). So, even a large aircraft at five miles in not necessarily identifiable. Perhaps a huge aircraft like a C-17, or C-5 could be ID'd that far out, but not smaller...

[speed-of-heat]

OK, let's try this a different, way... True or false 2d zoom is better than 3d zoom, ergo realistic or not their is an advantage playing in 2d... Lets make that the same please... Turn it off for 2d or add it for 3d.

[speed-of-heat]

What FAB is trying to say, is lower your IPD setting from the default 63? (I think) to 40, this will make the cockpit more life size, maybe even a little to large and lower your Pixel Density (PD) a bit to help with spotting.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

OK I will try setting the in game ipd to 40, is this something you have tried? What's the source?

[Fri13]

People have unrealistic expectations about how easy it is to see objects in real life. As an air traffic controller, I see first hand what it's like to see aircraft and vehicles out the tower windows and I know how far they are from me. You'd be surprised how close things have to be to be seen...the VR is dead on. You would have a hard time seeing an F-18 flying at 10k feet...that's 2 miles away! Think about that!

 

That is right. There are situations, the optimal ones (or one could say "best scenarios") where a airliner (C-130 size) can be seen from 30 km distance when at altitude, but that means you know where to look at it or you just happen to look at it. In a typical conditions, nope, and not so much from the ground, or from air to ground either from close ranges like 1-3 kilometers, and not especially when the vehicle is camouflaged by paint, driven to near some cover like trees.

 

And in the air a Mig-21 is a fighter that was found to be spottable at 2-3 kilometer distance in the Vietnam, while F-4 size fighter was at 3-5 kilometer distance. Larger you go, further the distance for spotting by change goes. And of course there affects the angle, is it head-on, beaming, tailing, against ground or sky etc.

 

The ranges really are very short ones for small aircrafts, while larger ones are easier to spot from distance when you know where to look.

 

The DCS has currently problem that compromise every ground vehicle seriously, as they don't have camouflage advantage nor concealment. They literally are a dark blobs on the light surface. And the fix for this would make every vehicle 75-50% transparent when stationary depending sun angle, only the shadow being as is, and all the window reflections etc intact. And when they move, then they would become more opaque depending speed.

 

Once the ground units would become more realistic, the challenge for pilots would increase trandenmously. As no longer can one just fly and spot the targets easily with naked eye or with thermal cameras. And that is where big difference would be fighting over a desert or over a european forests.

[Fri13]

Honestly, without binoculars you really can't ID fighter sized or smaller targets more than one mile away. In fact, we were working a C-130 today and I was watching it without binoculars and it was five miles away and I couldn't say that it looked like anything but a dark blob (Not a vision problem). So, even a large aircraft at five miles in not necessarily identifiable. Perhaps a huge aircraft like a C-17, or C-5 could be ID'd that far out, but not smaller...

 

On a clear day, one can spot a pure white passenger jet on the blue sky flying at 10 km altitude, but with good eyes one can spot does it have two or four engines under wings, as I have met such a person who had just extraordinary eye vision.

 

If someone would use 10x binoculars, then they can say that how many engines does it have, but nothing more really. Just a white arrow/dot moving on the sky, extremely easy even as it is white against blue (highest possible contrast).

 

But to identify that whats airline that aircraft belongs.... Better get to that 1-2 kilometer distance and know what you are looking for. If all aircrafts would be white with just a country flag symbol on it that is 1 meter diameter, then it would be very challenging.

[speed-of-heat]

changing the in game ipd makes absolutely no difference to fov/zoom/whatever

[Campbell]

changing the in game ipd makes absolutely no difference to fov/zoom/whatever

 

 

 

FOV is whatever your Vr headset is, the only zoom is in the UI layer under VR zoom, as far as spotting, I don’t have much of an issue. I can see targets anywhere from 5-7nm depending upon them being below me or above me. I find VR spotting to be easier then 2d spotting but I find it much easier to identify targets in 2d with the zoom.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[speed-of-heat]

yep, and the O+ has a physical ipd adjustment that needs to match your real ipd