Vatikus Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 I am using G940 and currently there is no increase in stick force when F18 is reaching and passing 22deg AOA. I've attached references.
AKarhu Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 I am using G940 and currently there is no increase in stick force when F18 is reaching and passing 22deg AOA. I've attached references. The stick force increase comes from the fact you need to pull back further non-linearly to exceed 22 degrees alpha.
Vatikus Posted May 31, 2018 Author Posted May 31, 2018 The stick force increase comes from the fact you need to pull back further non-linearly to exceed 22 degrees alpha. ED's f18 does not give any nonlinear feedback ... the gradient feels linear througout. If you have FFB stick you notice this quite well.
Eldur Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 Actually, I haven't seen FFB actually working at all yet (FFB2 here), it's just a standard spring effect with no functions. Probably WIP, and I don't know what the real stick does TBH.
Fox One Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 @Vatikus Can you please provide a link for that document? Thanks My DCS videos
v4ri4ble Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 Actually, I haven't seen FFB actually working at all yet (FFB2 here), it's just a standard spring effect with no functions. Probably WIP, and I don't know what the real stick does TBH. This is what I'm getting, but it is acting really bad when I attempt to trim - I start really having to fight my stick for level flight. As long as I don't touch the trim it works great.
ED Team cofcorpse Posted June 3, 2018 ED Team Posted June 3, 2018 FFB work and effects are W.I.P. for now, we'll look carefully and add everything that should be there.
IvanK Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 AOA feedback Flaps Auto at 22 deg AOA, 12 deg AOA Flaps Half/Full is in the FM just not sure how that translates with FF joysticks.
Razi Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 FFB work and effects are W.I.P. for now, we'll look carefully and add everything that should be there. Music to my ears! I recently made the switch to a MFFB2 and can't imagine going back.
Curly Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 AOA feedback Flaps Auto at 22 deg AOA, 12 deg AOA Flaps Half/Full is in the FM just not sure how that translates with FF joysticks. Per the 570-100 and a NASA report on the FCS. Stick force gradient increases 22 degrees of AOA providing the pilot feedback that he is now commanding AOA. In the Not Auto Flaps Up mode (Powered Approach mode). The FCS increases stick forces at 12 degrees of AOA to let the pilot know he is approaching stall. When the FCS detects the AOA increasing over limits, it sends a signal to feel actuator which causes the actuator to tighten a spring. Thus increasing the forces need to pull the stick back. A force feedback joystick has the same capabilities. That is changes of stick forces on the fly. It's allready implemented on other aircraft. Put a P-51 in loop with a FFB stick, and it will be stiffer as you enter the loop at high speed, and as you slow and the load on the elevator decreases, the stick feel becomes loser. If you haven't it tried it, I highly recommend it. You can usually get a FFB stick off Ebay for 50$ ish us. I think it's worth every penny. @Vatikus Can you please provide a link for that document? Thanks http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/p002709.pdf The stick force to AOA is on Page 3 of the PDF. That doc gives a nice overview and has some other interesting graphs. If you're looking for some more detailed info on the FCS the 570-100 is good, the NASA technical memo regarding the construction of their simulation. It also has some great technical info on the FCS, including gains schedules, ect . Unfortunately it only describes the Auto Flaps Up operation. https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19920024293.pdf AIAA also has a paper comparing the Navy's Hornet simulator to the real thing. It also probably has some very useful info, though it's behind a paywall https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.1997-3667 The primary source material for info on the FCS would be the McDonnell Douglas reports, specifically MDC A4107.
toutenglisse Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 FFB work and effects are W.I.P. for now, we'll look carefully and add everything that should be there. Thanks a lot cofcorpse for this good news
petsild Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 Great :) information. MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4, Kingston 3600 MHz 64 Gb, i5 12600K, Gigabyte RTX 4090, Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus,VKB NXT Premium.
Eldur Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 Music to my ears! I recently made the switch to a MFFB2 and can't imagine going back. Best decision ever. We FFB2 users need to be Legion and we need to be present, in order to get a decent replacement some time. The good old FFB2 is utterly hard to beat though. But it lacks axis precision and hats. Lots of hats
Razi Posted December 13, 2018 Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) I've been chatting a former F/A-18C pilot recently (he's somewhat known here) and we were talking about the FCS, trim, self-centering joysticks, and FFB. He occasionally plays DCS and has tried just about every consumer stick/throttle out there and ultimately decided to make his own stick because nothing out there (that he has tried), but the pressure sensors sticks behaved anything like the real aircraft, especially when it came to trim. So he uses a force sensor stick because the spring joysticks just throw his muscle memory off too much. After talking with him, it became clear that the FFB sticks with proper FFB implementation were working correctly and this is what he thought was essential to flying properly, especially when trimming the aircraft. Anyways, proper FFB implementation is my most waited for "feature" so I was motivated to cast another vote for this! Edited December 13, 2018 by Razi
Razi Posted December 13, 2018 Posted December 13, 2018 The good old FFB2 is utterly hard to beat though. But it lacks axis precision and hats. Lots of hats This is so true... I can't fly without FFB anymore, but it has enough issues that I've slowing been trying to re-engineer it. I'm currently using just the gimbal from the MSFFB2 while the stick from a different stick.
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