reported Please fix. "Generator failure" problem

[Havremonster]

Please fix. "Generator failure" problem when using hot start. It can not be too much to ask for can IT?

[Weta43]

Do you mean how you get a "Generator Failure" message if you add collective too fast & let the RPM fall below where the generators drop off, or some other issue ?

[Art-J]

That was my first thought as well, but now I think he means the pre-programmed, initial state of the whole powerplant system when the heli spawns in hot-start missions, which is not optimal at the moment.

 

Yesterday I checked the default ground start missions (training and instant) where the engines are already running. Looks like the heli always spawns with low collective and throttles on 75-80'ish % (and THAT's the problem). If we use "synchronize HOTAS with controls" option and crank the throttle to max, so that governor starts working, after hitting the "Fly" button the engines fluctuate in RPM and spool up to their max RPM, which takes quite a few seconds. That will cause decrease of rotor RPM down to about 90% depending on outer conditions. Not a big deal on the ground, as we're still above generator disengage treshold. Eventually both engine and rotor RPM get up to their recommended values.

 

However, the same throttle state when spawning in the air forces the player to either drop collective in order to wait for the engines to spool up (thus causing significant loss of altitude), or to overload the rotor if some collective was added before hitting "Fly" button (thus the heli will not descend that much, but rotor RPM will surely drop below generator disengage treshold).

 

All aircraft in DCS have some initial throttle/propeller/rotor values preset when spawning in the air and they usually don't cause any gameplay issues, but in Mi-8, with its distinctive generators-vs-rotor relation, air starts mean either loosing altitude, or loosing generators, or both.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Art-J

[rge75]

I noticed that, too. I simply raise the collective only slightly. The rpm seems to increase after that. When the rpm is high enough, I commence the take-off.

 

Most of the time I anyway do a cold start. However, it's indeed something that could be improved.

[Gerbilskij]

I second this request too, it would help to have the possibility reliably to start in mid-air sometimes (without generators' failures), particularly for mission testing purposes.

[msalama]

I usually start up cold, but regardless, did several hot starts from a runway yesterday while testing some config tweaks. The rotor RPM stayed above the generator cutoff level each time. Didn't try an airstart so no idea about those. Well just my £0.002 ;)

[thrustvector]

the only one I have problem with is the mission "convoy hunt", that's an immediate failure and drop pretty rapid as soon as you press fly as youre in mid air

[dovla]

that is still broken...

just try Instant Action -> Target practice

[BaD CrC]

Didn't know about this. But the Mi8 deserves a cold start, or you cannot pretend to know this aircraft. Plus, hot starts leave plenty of switches un-flipped that can become a problem fast when in flight.

As for starting this aircraft in mid air, this sounds just like something you would do in Battlefield, not DCS.

[wowbagger]

Then don't include instant action missions.

 

But I would rather have it fixed. I enjoy DCS more as a flight sim than a button switching sim. With a real life family, simming time is short and often interrupted. I use automatic startup and hot starts all the time.

 

The first thing many players will do after purchasing a module is hop into instant action. Being instantly assaulted by blaring warning beeps and Rita haranguing you makes a lousy first impression.

 

I also play Battlefield with my friends occasionally, and though I'm sure it wasn't meant this way, this comment rings slightly of elitism and sim-snobbery. Pay for the game - play it the way you want.

[Hooch]

Mi-8 generators

 

Hello, forum participants! Maybe this is no longer relevant, but I solved this problem by completely turning off the heating. All success and soft landings!

[dovla]

Yes, that helps,but

 

the issue reported here is when using air start, for example in instant actions.

The moment you take control, RPM drops, autopilot disengages... and there is nothing you can do to keep it stable

[Hawk 09]

Hi,

I often get a Generator failure a) during the Cold start sequence and b) after a landing. During the cold start it often (but not always) happens a while after shutting down the APU and raising the engine RPU to full. Sometimes everything is working fine, sometimes the Generator failure comes. I don´t know why because I always use the same check list.

When I do landing practise the failure happens often after putting down the collective (but only after a while, not instantly). - ?

I can provide trackfiles if that helps.

Any idea? Is it a bug? Thanks!

[dovla]

Hi,

I often get a Generator failure a) during the Cold start sequence and b) after a landing. During the cold start it often (but not always) happens a while after shutting down the APU and raising the engine RPU to full. Sometimes everything is working fine, sometimes the Generator failure comes. I don´t know why because I always use the same check list.

When I do landing practise the failure happens often after putting down the collective (but only after a while, not instantly). - ?

I can provide trackfiles if that helps.

Any idea? Is it a bug? Thanks!

Hi Hawk,

 

I don't think that what you are describing is a bug, though it is hard for me to figure what exactly you do when generator fails you

 

Generator(s) will disengage if rotor RPM fall below certain percentage, that can happen because of various reasons, like overloading engines...

Engine RPM should be raised to generator levels before shutting down the APU

 

if you can't figure it out provide a track file and I will look into it and try to figure what is your issue

[virgo47]

I've noticed this too for hot start quite often. My custom simple mission with "Takeoff from parking hot" always fails the generators first, then I have to wait and re-enable the autopilot. The same happened with Instant Action called Free Flight that actually started parked hot at Sukhumi.

I'm using Synchronize Cockpit Controls with HOTAS option and when I turned it off it didn't happen. I thought I have everything set as I want to - throttle up, collective down... no other axis does anything, right? Wrong! On my TM16000 the axis on the base was predefined as Main Rotor Brake Lever! And depending where this "unused" axis was I got the generator failure (or not).

Now sure, the helo could hot start a bit more stable, engine needles are doing funny stuff when it starts and main rotor gets to 90% which makes me nervous, but not having the brake lever accidentally bound, moved randomly and synchronized to the cockpit at start... that seem to help.

[admiki]

I just tried it in SP.

Full fuel and 6 bombs, I have no issues with loosing generators. RPM does droop to 90%  Collective is at 11 deg pitch and I don't use "sync controls" option.

On the ground, rotor will spike to 100%, engines will spool down and rotor will spool down, until it all stabilizes. If you start pulling collective before they stabilize, that's where the problem shows.

In the air, if you apply collective immediately, rotor will not spike and you will not get engine spool down.

 

[admiki]

I just tried it in SP.

Full fuel and 6 bombs, I have no issues with loosing generators. RPM does droop to 90%  Collective is at 11 deg pitch and I don't use "sync controls" option.

On the ground, rotor will spike to 100%, engines will spool down and rotor will spool down, until it all stabilizes. If you start pulling collective before they stabilize, that's where the problem shows.

In the air, if you apply collective immediately, rotor will not spike and you will not get engine spool down.

 

[Flappie]

The hot start issue was reported two years ago. No news so far.

[admiki]

ED promised they will focus efforts on DCS core and fixing some loooong standing bugs on Huey and Hip. I guess we'll have to wait and see how that goes.