OverStratos Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Compared to F-4 Phantom Performance wise: The MiG-23MLA is superior to non slatted Phantoms in most parameters. Climb, acceleration, ITR and STR, T/W, etc. It should not have as much range though. When compared with slatted Phantoms, the ITR is comparable, with a slight advantage of the MiG-23MLA with the wings in 45º position. With the wing in the 35º position (usually used by MLA pilots) it will be superior. STR is superior. Slatted Phantoms will usually depart during a hard maneuver when around the 35º of AOA. The MLA will depart at 37º AOA. (real AOA) The MiG-23MLA airframe is limited to a max G load of 8.5 Gs. The max G in which it can perform maneuvers with the wings in 16º is 6.5 and the angle must be changed at no more than 4Gs. Avionics wise: The MiG-23MLA N003 radar should be superior to Phantom radar in search and lock range, look-down range, and also in interface and automation. The MiG-23MLA also use the TP-23M IRST, which can detect afterburning fighters as far as 56km and large afterburning aircraft like the SR-71 as far as 100-90km. Armament wise: The R-24R employed by the MiG-23MLA is about equal in performance with the AIM-7F, while the R-23 is about equal with later versions of AIM-7E. Both R-23R and R-24R employ a monopulse seeker. Only available to AIM-7M later. The R-24T is an all aspect missile with the R-60MK being limited all aspect. The R-24s can be fired while pulling as much as 5Gs against a 7G maneuvering targets. R-60s can be fired while pulling 7Gs. The MiG-23MLD update improved the turn rates by increasing the AOA limit via the aerodynamic changes, which also makes the aircraft more controllable at low speeds. It also added an updated N003 radar, the N008, with several new modes like a close combat one, the possibility to detect hovering helicopters and better ECM resistance. The SPO-15 and CM dispenser were included with also the R-73 and R-24RM missiles. Several other changes were made to the navigation system and ground attack computers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.SquirrelBoy12 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Compared to F-4 Phantom... I mean... Which Phantom Variant? There are like 50+ of them lol. Modules: FC3, A-10C, M2000C, MiG-21bis, F-86F, AV-8B NA, F/A-18C, F-14A/B, F-16C, F-15E, F-4E, A-29, Eurofighter Typhoon, A-6E, MiG-23MLA, Nevada, Persian Gulf, South Atlantic, Syria, Afghanistan Specs: Intel i7 2600K, Nvidea GTX 980, 16GB RAM, NVMe SSD, Saitek X-55, TrackIR 5, Samsung Odyssey VR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverStratos Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) I mean... Which Phantom Variant? There are like 50+ of them lol. Contemporary Phantom variants. (1970-1990) Anyhow, there´re not that much versions that could be considered as main variants taking into account number produced and service life, including updates in that time period. These are B, C, D, E, F, J and S, slatted and non slatted. Edited January 25, 2020 by OverStratos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eber Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 I saw a GR Video, where the E-Variant of the Phantom II is in development by Belsimtek. This variant was the most produced variant (wikipedia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus-6 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 I saw a GR Video, where the E-Variant of the Phantom II is in development by Belsimtek. This variant was the most produced variant (wikipedia).It's not necessarily untrue, but ED has stated that the F-4 has been shelved indefinitely in favor of other, more fiscally attractive, aircraft. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Can't pretend fly as well as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlikwin Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 It's not necessarily untrue, but ED has stated that the F-4 has been shelved indefinitely in favor of other, more fiscally attractive, aircraft. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk On has to wonder about the legal status of weed in russia after that comment. New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satarosa Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Better Radar? Compared to F-4 Phantom Avionics wise: The MiG-23MLA N003 radar should be superior to Phantom radar in search and lock range, look-down range, and also in interface and automation. The MiG-23MLA also use the TP-23M IRST, which can detect afterburning fighters as far as 56km and large afterburning aircraft like the SR-71 as far as 100-90km MiG-23MLA as a Saphire-23ML (N003) radar Detection max range on fighter (RCS of 4m2 target in the best conditions) is ~55km F-4E as a APQ-120 radar Detection max range on fighter (RCS of 4m2 target in the best conditions) is ~60km For me the radar of the F-4E is a little better, according our army infos, web and doc sources and tech logic of this period.. !? Real War, Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCs1uki5QsyuHUdvtmWJTOg?view_as=subscriber Real War, Voice Chat: https://discord.gg/UGa3KMe [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlikwin Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 MiG-23MLA as a Saphire-23ML (N003) radar Detection max range on fighter (RCS of 4m2 target in the best conditions) is ~55km F-4E as a APQ-120 radar Detection max range on fighter (RCS of 4m2 target in the best conditions) is ~60km For me the radar of the F-4E is a little better, according our army infos, web and doc sources and tech logic of this period.. !? Plus the saphir isnt actually a coherent PD radar. Not sure on the APG 120. New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus-6 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 On has to wonder about the legal status of weed in russia after that comment.I wouldn't begrudge Eagle Dynamics their share of profitability. I definitely want to see them succeed because I'll also reap the benefits in the end, but to say that I found the news to be bitterly disappointing is a titanic understatement. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Can't pretend fly as well as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLTeo Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 ED did not say anything about profitability, they simply said that the F-4E is on hold without any reason. The profitability thing is something the forums decided was the reason because people are hyped about the Viper and Hornet. It's just as likely that they aren't sure about what to do with multi-crew for example. Oh and also, isn't the radar in the F-4S supposed to be better than that in the -E, being a fleet defender first and foremost (unlike the -E)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus-6 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 No, they never said anything to that effect that I know of. But without any official explanation, it was simply the explanation that seemed to make the most business sense since the Hornet and Viper are likely to generate more mass appeal than the Phantom. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Can't pretend fly as well as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLTeo Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Even if that were true (which is debatable, we're not talking about some niche module like the F101 Voodoo or something), it's a very simplistic explanation. The Hornet and Viper are more complex and require more effort, and therefore money, to develop and complete. A Phantom module doesn't need to sell as many copies as the Hornet or Viper to generate profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlikwin Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 I wouldn't begrudge Eagle Dynamics their share of profitability. I definitely want to see them succeed because I'll also reap the benefits in the end, but to say that I found the news to be bitterly disappointing is a titanic understatement. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk I think it will sell well. Its probably one of the most iconic 3rd gen aircraft. My guess is they finally decided to do a 4th gen russian bird to bump it. New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus-6 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 *shrug* Yes, you're right. It could all be true for all I know, or none of it could be. I also admit my guilt for injecting a touch of acidity to the tone of my original post. I'm still a little let down over my chances of seeing an F-4 any time soon. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Can't pretend fly as well as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverStratos Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 MiG-23MLA as a Saphire-23ML (N003) radar Detection max range on fighter (RCS of 4m2 target in the best conditions) is ~55km F-4E as a APQ-120 radar Detection max range on fighter (RCS of 4m2 target in the best conditions) is ~60km For me the radar of the F-4E is a little better, according our army infos, web and doc sources and tech logic of this period.. !? The 55km distance for N003 is the detection of a fighter sized target with a 100% probability above 1500 meters. But it has no problem detecting and locking fighter sized targets much far away. While the 60km for a fighter for the Phantom is for a probability of around 85-90% IRC. The N003 operation and look-down capabilities are better than AP-120. Plus the saphir isnt actually a coherent PD radar. Not sure on the APG 120. It actually is, it just uses external coherence, which is not as effective. Later versions of the Phantom were also updated with Doppler radars, but the operation was really awkward because it would represent the targets in the screen by it´s closing speed while the N003 would just represent them in the regular way a modern radar does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eber Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 My little museum, still not finished :) 1. The model of the Phantom is just called F-4 (not specified on the box :( ) 2. MiG-27 "Flogger-D" 3. MiG-23 MLD 4. Vought A-7A Corsair II 5. Yak-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Oh and also, isn't the radar in the F-4S supposed to be better than that in the -E, being a fleet defender first and foremost (unlike the -E)? At least the F-4J AWG-10 weapon system already had "look down" capacity with Pulse Doppler mode. F-4S is an upgrade of F-4J. I don't know it they really reached "shoot down" capacity. Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBot Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 At least the F-4J AWG-10 weapon system already had "look down" capacity with Pulse Doppler mode. F-4S is an upgrade of F-4J. I don't know it they really reached "shoot down" capacity. They did, as mentioned here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojyrocks Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 At least the F-4J AWG-10 weapon system already had "look down" capacity with Pulse Doppler mode. F-4S is an upgrade of F-4J. I don't know it they really reached "shoot down" capacity. With the delay on the F-4 module. Hope they add the Navy version too. Pretty sure it'd sell like hot cakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus-6 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 With the delay on the F-4 module. Hope they add the Navy version too. Pretty sure it'd sell like hot cakes.I would buy ANY Phantom at this point. Navy...USAF...I don't care... Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Can't pretend fly as well as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eber Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Like this one? Sorry for the nerd style joke. I hope they bring the Phantom much sooner to DCS than anybody would expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus-6 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Like this one? Sorry for the nerd style joke. I hope they bring the Phantom much sooner to DCS than anybody would expect.Ha! Ok, you got me. I often forget that the F-4 was actually Phantom number two. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Can't pretend fly as well as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 I'd buy the OG phantom no problem. Would prefer a Panther or even more a Cougar but 1st generation navy jets are seriously cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halowraith1 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 this is a MiG-23 topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Hey MiG-23 and F-4 go together like peanut butter and jelly, talk about MiG-23 and F-4 always comes around at some point:) 1 Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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