Surprised by Framerates! - GTX 970m

[martinistripes]

After reading recently that Oculus and HTCs Gen. 2 VR headsets may be a long way off, I've been contemplating getting a HTC Vive. Trouble is my laptop (specs below) is 3 years old. So whilst the cost of a HTC Vive is reasonable, the cost of a Vive AND new gaming laptop really isn't. My friend has an Oculus Rift and he suggested I try it.

 

I think the universally agreed VR minimum is a GTX 970. Considering that, according to Passmark, the GTX 970m has half the performance of the 970 (4089 vs 8596) I was expecting a slideshow. Well... it definitely wasn't a slideshow, but it wasn't quite playable either (I tend to favour framerate over graphic fidelity). My afterburner overlay wasn't showing up in the headset but if I was to guess, I'd say I was in the region of 20 - 25 fps. BUT... I'd not even adjusted my graphics settings down yet from how I run the game (High preset) in 1080p. So, next I reduced everything to bare minimum and tried again. Now, it was silky smooth, so much so that I felt I could give the Medium preset a go. At Medium, the sim is perfectly enjoyable (I would guess 40 - 45 fps). I'll admit, I did only run the instant action free flight in the MiG-29S so there wasn't a heavy unit count but anyway, it's playable -on a 3 year old laptop.

 

Subsequently, I tried iRacing straight afterwards which also ran perfectly fine. And these two sims are the main reason I want a VR headset. I'm sure I will struggle with a AAA game such as Skyrim VR or Doom VR but now I'm wondering if the recommended minimum GTX 970 (desktop) is really a good recommendation. It seems you can enjoy VR with much less! ...the laptop upgrade can come later at least.

 

My specs:

Windows 10 Pro

Intel Core i7-4790K

16GB RAM

GTX 970M (6GB VRAM)

Samsung 950 Pro SSD

[dburne]

:thumbup:

 

The main thing is, as long as you can have fun with it!

Enjoy!

[martinistripes]

Thanks. I'll try to get an fps overlay to work (perhaps the native one), so I can be more objective on those framerates.

[etherbattx]

yes it’s amazing what you can run if you’re willing to turn things down a touch or two below 11.

 

congrats!

[kurtz667]

I run skyrim VR perfectly on my 970 gtx.

Even on high settings and with PD turned half up, still hitting a solid 90 fps.

It's very well optimized

Edited October 15, 2018 by kurtz667

[hansangb]

After reading recently that Oculus and HTCs Gen. 2 VR headsets may be a long way off, I've been contemplating getting a HTC Vive. Trouble is my laptop (specs below) is 3 years old. So whilst the cost of a HTC Vive is reasonable, the cost of a Vive AND new gaming laptop really isn't. My friend has an Oculus Rift and he suggested I try it.

 

I think the universally agreed VR minimum is a GTX 970. Considering that, according to Passmark, the GTX 970m has half the performance of the 970 (4089 vs 8596) I was expecting a slideshow. Well... it definitely wasn't a slideshow, but it wasn't quite playable either (I tend to favour framerate over graphic fidelity). My afterburner overlay wasn't showing up in the headset but if I was to guess, I'd say I was in the region of 20 - 25 fps. BUT... I'd not even adjusted my graphics settings down yet from how I run the game (High preset) in 1080p. So, next I reduced everything to bare minimum and tried again. Now, it was silky smooth, so much so that I felt I could give the Medium preset a go. At Medium, the sim is perfectly enjoyable (I would guess 40 - 45 fps). I'll admit, I did only run the instant action free flight in the MiG-29S so there wasn't a heavy unit count but anyway, it's playable -on a 3 year old laptop.

 

Subsequently, I tried iRacing straight afterwards which also ran perfectly fine. And these two sims are the main reason I want a VR headset. I'm sure I will struggle with a AAA game such as Skyrim VR or Doom VR but now I'm wondering if the recommended minimum GTX 970 (desktop) is really a good recommendation. It seems you can enjoy VR with much less! ...the laptop upgrade can come later at least.

 

My specs:

Windows 10 Pro

Intel Core i7-4790K

16GB RAM

GTX 970M (6GB VRAM)

Samsung 950 Pro SSD

 

 

 

 

You can also take advantage of mods that increase VR performance ESPECIALLY on older hardware:

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=215373

[AeriaGloria]

Gives me hope for my 960m:)

[Forest Rat]

DCS has a built-in FPS counter that you can view in VR. I want to say it's RightControl+Pause/Break.

[M1Combat]

It is.

[martinistripes]

DCS has a built-in FPS counter that you can view in VR. I want to say it's RightControl+Pause/Break.

 

Frame rate counter isn't working for me, even when I remap it to another key.

[Vannipo]

Hmm, for me even a 980ti OC was too slow. And really need nice gfx. It let me enjoy the flight much more!

[martinistripes]

Hmm, for me even a 980ti OC was too slow. And really need nice gfx. It let me enjoy the flight much more!

 

What's your CPU and RAM? Have you tried cycling through the different ASW modes?

[StarLightPL]

On that card you will see a lot of reprojection (headset repeating frame). Oculus does a pretty good job of hiding it under a mechanism called ASW (async space warp). Vive didn't have something similarly good until two days ago, they introduced something called motion smoothing. This allows lower end devices to run VR almost without a hitch (esp. "sitting" titles like DCS), but of course there will be some artefacting (like with ASW).

 

You will be able to run VR with 970, but you will soon want to upgrade anyway ;-)

[Vannipo]

What's your CPU and RAM? Have you tried cycling through the different ASW modes?

i7 5820k, 6 real cores @4.6ghz. 32GB RAM The Fps on my old 980 ti where as expected with my grafic settings. So, I needed a 1080 ti to get to stable 45 fps. I dont need ASW. I hit 45 fps at any time with nice looking graphix. And ASW doesnt give me more fps.

I would never turn any shadows off. If my GPU cant handle shadows on high fps, I need a better GPU. :thumbup:

Edited October 23, 2018 by Vannipo

[Jethro11]

I’m on 970 still too running vr., great little card.

[martinistripes]

I dont need ASW. I hit 45 fps at any time with nice looking graphix. And ASW doesnt give me more fps.

I would never turn any shadows off. If my GPU cant handle shadows on high fps, I need a better GPU. :thumbup:

 

I thought if you're stable at 45 fps, ASW mode 4 (automatic) would give you 90 fps by doubling. I noticed very few artifacts when I used it so it doesn't bother me to have it turned on. My next gaming laptop will likely cost me over £2,000; that's a hefty price to go from medium preset to high preset and I work away most the of year so cheaper desktop upgrades aren't an option for me.

[Miles Vorkosigan]

I havent tried any sims on this computer, my sim computers have 8700s and 1080ti/1070, but a 2500k(OC) with a 970GTX does play all made for VR games pretty smoothly. I have it (Oculus) set up room scale with three cameras. I use the Odyssey for my simpits.

[martinistripes]

I just want to add to this thread. After seeing my friends Rift work smoothly, I bought a Vive. On the Vive I can just barely run smooth with EVERYTHING turned off/lowest setting and 100% resolution (ie. no extra pixel density). And it's so harsh an image on the eyes I decided I wouldn't play in VR until getting a new laptop. I don't regret buying the Vive at all. I've used it on my more powerful desktop system at home and very pleased with it.

 

But definitely, if you want VR just for DCS and you have low system spec, the Rift is a better option.

[Harlikwin]

So this is pertinent to my interestes... I've got laptop with a GTX980m in it (4gig I think). Any thoughts on how well that would work? Userbench says the 980m is 32% better than the 970m. I was gonna wait a year or two and then build a VR capable desktop system, but now I'm tempted.

 

I like my fancy GFX as much as the next guy, but I can live with less, since I started gaming back in the CGA monitor days....

[martinistripes]

So this is pertinent to my interestes... I've got laptop with a GTX980m in it (4gig I think). Any thoughts on how well that would work? Userbench says the 980m is 32% better than the 970m. I was gonna wait a year or two and then build a VR capable desktop system, but now I'm tempted.

 

I like my fancy GFX as much as the next guy, but I can live with less, since I started gaming back in the CGA monitor days....

 

If the 980m is really 32% better than the 970m, go for it. I can't say for certain if you'll find acceptable settings in the Vive, but you should do in the Rift. Plus price of the Rift is very low now. My overall feeling though is that the Vive is a better quality product and I prefer the Steam VR interface. Might be worth checking your CPU to. I have i7 4790K and 16GB of RAM.

[Harlikwin]

Well, I'm pretty much in your same boat of having an aging system, its a ROG G751jy. Oddly the 980m with it only comes with 4GB ram not 6gb (the passmark is for a 3gb version) so I'm not sure if the passmarks are correct, but VRAM is more of an issue with higher res (not sure if I have enough VRAM at 4gb). Can't really upgrade the card so I was thinking of using it as is and at some point down the road building a VR specific machine in a year or two when VR gen2 headsets are a thing. But if I can go with a Gen1 occulus now without upgrading anything to run VR albeit with somewhat crappier GFX, I'm seriously tempted.

 

I'm trying to be logical here but likely oversimplifying since the 10 series probably does other things the 9 series doesn't.

 

Bechmarks (passmark)

GTX 970M = 4116 (this is what you said you had right?) half of recomended passmark (3gb card)

GTX 980m = 5905 (me) about 30% lower than reccomended (but only 4gb VRAM as opposed to your 6gb)

GTX 970 (desktop) = 8603 (some other guy that says it works fine) same as

GTX 1060 = 8934 (minimum rec per occulus) 3gb ram (9025 for 6gb ram)

 

So if you have the 970m which is pulling half the passmark rating, the 980m should be a bit better speed wise. VRAM being a seperate issue.

 

I have no illusions about ultra quality graphics with the 980m, but it runs DCS fine at 1080x1200 for me at medium/high settings. And IF I take the my current framerate (70's) and divide by 2 1080p screens it seems to me I should get half the performance since its rendering 2x the pixels. So 35FPS... It might be too low, but I'm not running minimum settings now, so I can probably go up in framerate at the expense of it looking nice like you did.

 

Though I wonder since VR is rendering very similar pixels if there isn't some sort of performance savings/trickery there.

 

Proc wise I'm running a i7 4720HQ (so 3.5ghz single core) so a bit slower than yours.

I've got ASUS ROG JG751 so I guess technically its 4 years old, but I got it 2 years ago. 16gb ram and SSD

Edited November 30, 2018 by Harlikwin

[Harlikwin]

Also any chance you could post your GFX settings and take some screenshots (not even sure how that works in VR) and also a frame check with a more taxing scenario? Also, how bad is the screen door?

[martinistripes]

I'm not using my friends Rift anymore but it ran well with default 'Low' setting, then I turned some stuff up to medium and it still ran ok (in a quick mission). In the Vive, I need to manually set all to the lowest. The SDE effect wasn't an issue for me. But jagged edges really are noticeable when you come from a high res monitor. And because of that, your priority will be getting supersampling as high as possible while maintaining playable frame rates. Without any supersampling, it's like you're playing on a 1990's arcade system. :D

 

I don't think a screenshot will give you the right impression. You'll need to have the headset on to know what it's like.

 

I'm still using my Vive with the 970m. Just not in DCS World. IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad works well even in co-op games with Balanced overall and a mixture of medium/low settings, supersampling set at 110%. Been flying that almost daily. I've tried going back to the monitor with Ultra/High settings and can't. For me, it's worth giving up that visual clarity for the feeling of immersion and actually being in the cockpit. Only VR can really give you that.

[Harlikwin]

Well my laptop monitor isnt really hi-res to begin with. Ill see if can pick one up on sale.