Is the MiG-29 PFM correct now?

[Xtan]

In the real world, can the MiG-29 rotate at 60 knots (120 KPH)? :helpsmilie:

Test conditions: No wind, No mount, Full feul, Full bullets, Full flaps.

 

Edit1: Sorry for my poor english. By rotation I mean the front landing gear is off the ground.

Edit2: Uploaded the video of take off.

 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Xtan

[sylkhan]

The mig29 FM are very strange, and the effects of the slats are way too much, even after the last patch.

Russian aerodynamic is the best of the world, but not in DCS :)

Edited October 25, 2018 by sylkhan

[Chizh]

The mig29 FM are very strange, and the effects of the slats are way too much, even after the last patch.

It is done like in real.

Russian aerodynamic is the best of the world, but not in DCS :)

Russian aerodynamics have always followed the American.

[Esac_mirmidon]

You are not rotating, you are decelerating

while keeping nose high.

 

Try the opposite. Try to rotate at 70 knots from zero speed.

[draconus]

Try to rotate at 70 knots from zero speed.

Tried that yesterday (just after update) and looked like above 70kts the nose starts to rotate at full aft stick. The moment later you hit the ground with tailpipes.

[jacobs]

The last update makes landing a bit easier, the secret is to come at 300kph and flare above runway, using ground effect. Before, it was really difficult, the aircraft had a tendency to sink above runway. I'm happy with this first 'tunning pass' on the Fulcrum FM.

[Yo-Yo]

The last update makes landing a bit easier, the secret is to come at 300kph and flare above runway, using ground effect. Before, it was really difficult, the aircraft had a tendency to sink above runway. I'm happy with this first 'tunning pass' on the Fulcrum FM.

 

Interesting... the last update did not touch any longitudinal matter at all, especially for landing. :) You just have grown your skill...

[Esac_mirmidon]

Tried that yesterday (just after update) and looked like above 70kts the nose starts to rotate at full aft stick. The moment later you hit the ground with tailpipes.

 

So its not possible to rotate at 70 knots safely.

 

You hit the ground with the tailpipe and probably damage something.

[Mars Exulte]

Interesting... the last update did not touch any longitudinal matter at all, especially for landing. :) You just have grown your skill...

 

 

I see a lot of these phantom patches around here :p

[Sport]

I personally like the new FM. Many jets have elevator authority as low as 70 knots. Keep in mind, that's a MASSIVE stabilizer moving back there and can move a lot of air. Low-speed tail strikes are definitely a thing.

[Vitormouraa]

I personally like the new FM. Many jets have elevator authority as low as 70 knots. Keep in mind, that's a MASSIVE stabilizer moving back there and can move a lot of air. Low-speed tail strikes are definitely a thing.

 

Yeah. And there might be an aerodynamic interaction between the fuselage or even the engines which can produce some sort of pitching moment when you're rolling down the runway.

 

Watch the video below, I am able to touch the nozzles on the ground without touching the stick at all. No stick, no pitch movements, just brakes and MAX AB.

 

What do you think about this Yo-Yo? :)

 

[discwalker]

Yeah, nozzles touch runway easily

 

track:

full internal

full gun

centerline tank

full AA load

 

full pitch trim forward!

full stick forward state!!

without flaps!!!

+full AB

 

location: PG/Sharjah

time: 8h23m

Rctrl+ENTER view active in cockpit

 

I also need official explanation to this.

2,5,3,23225_m29_pfm_pg_blowTyresBug0.trk

[Esac_mirmidon]

To what?

 

Is easier if you tell us what.

[Lixma 06]

 

I also need official explanation to this.

 

I can't get this to show up in the track menu. I've tried renaming it but no joy.

 

edit. my bad it's PG

[Mars Exulte]

To what?

 

Is easier if you tell us what.

 

 

Just pick a topic, you're smart. Let's start with.... Meaning of life. That's a good one.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Im lost here.

 

Dont know what you mean

[Xtan]

You are not rotating, you are decelerating

while keeping nose high.

 

Try the opposite. Try to rotate at 70 knots from zero speed.

 

Yes. I hadn't show take off rotate video for you. But you can try it in game. In fact it can be rotate at 65 knots with full fuel. So, is that right?

And sorry for my poor english. By rotation I mean the front landing gear is off the ground.

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Xtan

[Schlapperklange]

I agree! The 29 still has a strange behavior: positive pitch authority is pretty high. That also leads to the early rotation at low speeds (for rotation speed CG in relation to gear position is important, too: Your plane rotates at 0 airspeed if its behind the main landing gear :smilewink:).

 

In opposition there is very low negative pitch authority. To fly inverted straight and level you need to trim forward a lot. Stick pressure alone is not sufficient. At high speed over 1000 km/h, even full forward trim doesn't keep the nose from pitching up.Not sure this behavior is correct for the 29.

 

 

And rudder authority is much too high as well. The birds butt shakes hell with only little input (nearly no rudder movement can be seen in external view). Oddly this effect is getting stronger with higher speed, where aerodynamic stability should usually rise more than aerodynamic control surface authority.

 

 

Some things should be checked and reviewed:

 

- planes center of gravity (CG)

- planes center of pressure (CP) ando it's movement in relation to airspeed

- planes general stability for the yaw and pitch axes

[Esac_mirmidon]

Well the Manual is warning about that:

 

 

[Schlapperklange]

Well the Manual is warning about that:

 

 

 

 

The only unusual thing I see here is the thing with the intake duct. The rest is common for most other planes.

[Vitormouraa]

The only unusual thing I see here is the thing with the intake duct. The rest is common for most other planes.

 

What's wrong with the intakes? The fact that they close on the ground? Completely normal...

[Ironhand]

What's wrong with the intakes? The fact that they close on the ground? Completely normal...

I think he's referring to the nose lowering tendency as they open and thrust increases.

[Alfa]

What's wrong with the intakes?

 

I think what he meant was that the take-off effects described in the manual would apply to most aircraft - except the one concerning opening of the solid FOD doors.

 

The fact that they close on the ground? Completely normal...

 

..for the MiG-29 yes, but not for other aircraft types :)

[Schlapperklange]

I think he's referring to the nose lowering tendency as they open and thrust increases.

 

 

Correct. Don't know what Vitormouraa was reading.

[Schlapperklange]

I think with the PFM modification ED tries to make Cobra-like maneuvers possible with the 29, but messes up the behavior in the normal flight envelope.