Nealius Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 In the Hornet we have (unless it was changed recently and I haven't noticed), we must have the Master Arm on to dispense chaff/flares from the ALE-47. This always seemed funny to me since, from what few IRL videos I've seen, the pilot doesn't switch the MA on until rolling in on the target, and promptly switches it back to safe after dropping ordnance. This would preclude usage of expendables on ingress and egress without having to take a hand off the controls and mess with the MA switch. The Fighter Pilot Podcast, however, just released an episode today about expendables, and the host(s) explicitly said that the MA had to be on in order to dispense chaff/flares with the ALE-39, but NOT with the ALE-47. I know we're not supposed to post real documents that would clearly answer this question, but is this another case of a retired pilot misremembering details after years out of the cockpit? 1
Hog_No32 Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 LOL, I noticed this discrepancy (?) too while listening to the episode this morning on my way to work.
Anonymous User Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 MA does not need to be armed for the ALE47 to dispense IRL. 1
David OC Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 If you can use the ALE-47 without the MA armed. The switch would disable with wow right. You wouldn't want to bump the hotas on a flight deck after startup. i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link
Madbrood Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 If you can use the ALE-47 without the MA armed. The switch would disable with wow right. You wouldn't want to bump the hotas on a flight deck after startup. You'd think so - I believe it works this way in the Viper i7-4770k | EVGA GTX 980 SC | 16GB DDR3 | TrackIR 5, TM Warthog HOTAS, Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals DCS: F-16C, F/A-18C, F-14A/B, AV-8B, FC3, A-10C, Black Shark II, UH-1H, F-86F, MiG-21bis, Mirage 2000C, AJS-37, F-5E :pilotfly:
Nealius Posted November 12, 2018 Author Posted November 12, 2018 The Viper also has a CMD panel similar to the A-10C, if I recall correctly. If that's off then the expendables wouldn't dispense even if you hit the HOTAS button.
Anonymous User Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 On the ALE47 submenu of the EW page, there is the ability to safe the system so that expendables are not released by accidental actuation of HOTAS. This is the normal way of arming/safing the ALE47 (not sure if thats implemented in DCS).. And yes, WoW also inhibits flare/chaff dispense
ED Team cofcorpse Posted November 12, 2018 ED Team Posted November 12, 2018 Thank you, gentlemen! I've read and noted your comments for future study and development. On the ALE47 submenu of the EW page, there is the ability to safe the system.. Could you give a slight hint what you are talking about?
Eldur Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 And yes, WoW also inhibits flare/chaff dispense Well that even inhibits configuration... wondering if that's how the real thing works though.
Kazius Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 I think a good way to look at this is logic. 1) Weight on wheels prevents dispensing. 2) Dispenser switch needs to be in the on position. (Guessing you wouldn't switch this on until in the air. 3) program dispensing requires EW set to a setting other than standby/off. In the air: 1) reasons above about master on in roll in and off after ordinance drop. If you were suddenly locked and quickly fired at I don't think you want to scramble with a switch but start dispensing immediately. 2) You normally dispense flares near a combat zone with chance of unknown IR manpads. This would require a pilot to keep master arm on until they have reached the egress point. With friendlies below, you don't want to accidentally drop a bomb on them. So without evidence to prove that the dispenser shouldn't require master arm on, logic says it shouldn't require it. Perhaps ED should email a contact at Boeing and just ask them. Something like this doesn't seem like something that wouldn't have to be kept secret and a Boeing representative would know what needs to be kept secret and what can be shared with a game developer.
Anonymous User Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) Logic, or you can take my word for it, which is based off 500+ hours in the F/A-18 (not simulated) Dispenser switch ON (not BYPASS), weight on wheels: should be able to box PB8 ‘ALE47’ on the EW page, setup the programs etc. Nil expendables will be dispensed. Dispenser switch ON, weight off wheels: box ALE47, with PB19 ‘MODE’ in STBY (displayed under PB8 ), nil expendables will be dispensed with HOTAS/Sill switch actuation. Dispenser switch ON, weight off wheels, cycle PB19 until ‘MAN1’ displayed under PB19: flares and/or chaff dispensed IAW the program setup and HOTAS/Sill switch selection, regardless of master arm position. The above is accurate for the real jet. I’m away and unable to check the DCS jet atm, but I wouldn’t bother contacting Boeing. Edited November 13, 2018 by Anonymous User
David OC Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 Logic, or you can take my word for it, which is based off 500+ hours in the F/A-18 (not simulated) Dispenser switch ON (not BYPASS), weight on wheels: should be able to box PB8 ‘ALE47’ on the EW page, setup the programs etc. Nil expendables will be dispensed. Dispenser switch ON, weight off wheels: box ALE47, with PB19 ‘MODE’ in STBY (displayed under PB8 ), nil expendables will be dispensed with HOTAS/Sill switch actuation. Dispenser switch ON, weight off wheels, cycle PB19 until ‘MAN1’ displayed under PB19: flares and/or chaff dispensed IAW the program setup and HOTAS/Sill switch selection, regardless of master arm position. The above is accurate for the real jet. I’m away and unable to check the DCS jet atm, but I wouldn’t bother contacting Boeing. I'll take your word for it "Anonymous User" on Russian forum....:D You sound like you know your stuff...;) i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link
ED Team cofcorpse Posted November 13, 2018 ED Team Posted November 13, 2018 Logic, or you can take my word for it, which is based off 500+ hours in the F/A-18 (not simulated) ... The above is accurate for the real jet. I’m away and unable to check the DCS jet atm, but I wouldn’t bother contacting Boeing. Thank you, sir! Your help is highly appreciated!
Nooch Posted November 17, 2018 Posted November 17, 2018 ALE-47 Flares/Chaff use with Master Arm OFF So according to what Jell-o said (starting at 39:05), the ALE-47 does not require to have the master arm ON in order to be able to expand countermeasures. That's contrary to what we have in DCS. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Robin_Hood Posted November 17, 2018 Posted November 17, 2018 (edited) Interesting, I read the reverse from Hay Stout in Hornets Over Kuwait (...) I had been trolling around over the top of the enemy without the capability to employ chaff or flares. Pretty stupid. The master arm switch needs to be on to do so. Edited November 17, 2018 by Robin_Hood 2nd French Fighter Squadron
Eldur Posted November 18, 2018 Posted November 18, 2018 I've picked up in one of the many discussion on this issue that it depends on the lot. Later one don't seem to need master arm on, earlier however do so. Just don't know when it has been changed, but probably before Lot 20. Kuwait was 15 years before our Hornet...
David OC Posted November 18, 2018 Posted November 18, 2018 Another thread about this here https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=224557 Logic, or you can take my word for it, which is based off 500+ hours in the F/A-18 (not simulated) Dispenser switch ON (not BYPASS), weight on wheels: should be able to box PB8 ‘ALE47’ on the EW page, setup the programs etc. Nil expendables will be dispensed. Dispenser switch ON, weight off wheels: box ALE47, with PB19 ‘MODE’ in STBY (displayed under PB8 ), nil expendables will be dispensed with HOTAS/Sill switch actuation. Dispenser switch ON, weight off wheels, cycle PB19 until ‘MAN1’ displayed under PB19: flares and/or chaff dispensed IAW the program setup and HOTAS/Sill switch selection, regardless of master arm position. The above is accurate for the real jet. I’m away and unable to check the DCS jet atm, but I wouldn’t bother contacting Boeing. i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link
Nealius Posted November 18, 2018 Author Posted November 18, 2018 Interesting, I read the reverse from Hay Stout in Hornets Over Kuwait ALE-39 requires MA on. That was probably what they had during the '91 war.
dave76 Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 cannot drop chaff and flares cannot drop flares or chaff...what am ui doing wrong????
PitbullVicious Posted November 22, 2018 Posted November 22, 2018 cannot drop flares or chaff...what am ui doing wrong???? Have you turned on your ALE-47 from the EW page on your DDI (it's on standby by default)? i9-9900K @ 5.1GHz | MSI Ventus 3X OC RTX3090 24GB | 64GB 3200MHz DDR4 | Asus ROG Strix Z390-E | Asus Xonar DGX 5.1 Sound Card | Virpil T50CM2 base w/ F/A-18C / A-10C / Virpil T50CM2 Grip | WinWing Super Taurus Throttle | MFG pedals | TekCreations Hornet UFC, Landing Panel, Right Console | WinWing Hornet Combat Ready Panel | Buddy Fox UFC | Foxx Mount | 3 x TM Cougar MFD | HP Reverb G2 | Wacom Intuos S (with VRK) | Honeycomb Alpha Yoke | Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS | CH Fighter Stick Pro & Throttle | MS Sidewinder 2 FFB | Track IR 5 | Oculus Rift CV1 善く戦う者は、まず勝つべからざるを為して、以て敵の勝つべきを待つ。
Buckeye Posted November 22, 2018 Posted November 22, 2018 Master Arm On to Dispense Expendables? cannot drop flares or chaff...what am ui doing wrong???? Need to show your EW page for anyone to be able to answer with certainty... But, looking at your switch positions...assuming you haven’t taken and selected Man1, SA, etc on the EW DDI Page, you’re still in STBY. If you want to skip selecting a mode and profile, you need to move the switch up on more position behind the stick into Bypass. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Rig: SimLab P1X Chassis | Tianhang Base PRO + Tianhang F-16 Grip w/ OTTO Buttons | Custom Throttletek F/A-18C Throttle w/ Hall Sensors + OTTO switches and buttons | Slaw Device RX Viper Pedals w/ Damper Tactile: G-Belt | 2x BK LFE + 1x BK Concert | 2x TST-429 | 1x BST-300EX | 2x BST-1 | 6x 40W Exciters | 2x NX3000D | 2x EPQ304 PC/VR: Somnium VR1 Visionary | 4090 | 12700K
SonofEil Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 Dispenser switch ON (not BYPASS), weight on wheels: should be able to box PB8 ‘ALE47’ on the EW page, setup the programs etc. Nil expendables will be dispensed. Yep, this is a big item I've wanted addressed since Hornet day one. You should absolutely be able to program your countermeasures while on the ground. i7 7700K @5.0, 1080Ti, 32GB DDR4, HMD Odyssey, TM WH, Crosswind Rudder...
Nooch Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 Why has this not been reported? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
David OC Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 cofcorpse from ED's team was in that thread researching. So probably not needed. Thank you, sir! Your help is highly appreciated! https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=224557 i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link
dave76 Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 Need to show your EW page for anyone to be able to answer with certainty... But, looking at your switch positions...assuming you haven’t taken and selected Man1, SA, etc on the EW DDI Page, you’re still in STBY. If you want to skip selecting a mode and profile, you need to move the switch up on more position behind the stick into Bypass. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ok i did not turn ale 47 on from ew page......:doh::doh::doh::doh:
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