SharpeXB Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=207194 I think it will sell really good since it will be the most modern eastern aircraft we will have. Well it’s not a trainer! :thumbup: i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomer Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Is there any benefit to buying the L-39 or the C-101 and if so which is the better of the two ? Id also like to bring up the topic of a carrier capable trainer Depends what modules you already have. The C-101 is the best of the two imo. Better loadout options inc. anti shipping, and very well done. If you can wait for a 50% sale they are both worth the price, if not, go with the C-101. The Mirage etc. are more capable obviously for the money with the F/A-18 worth every penny at full price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatThuVoBui Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 I bought the L-39 because the ZA model is in service with the Syrian Arab Air Force. Just because an aircraft is labeled "trainer" does not mean you cannot simulate combat with it. CPU: i7 6700k OC @ 4.7 ghz MoBo: ASUS Maximus VIII Ranger Z170 RAM: 32GB DDR4 Ripjaw GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC Black Storage: Samsung 850 EVO 250GB/4TB Western Digital Black HDD Monitor: Dell 27" S2716DG 1440p 144hz HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle / VKB Sim Fat Black Mamba Mk.III Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 As I've said countless times before, the ZA model is not just a trainer but an excellent light attack / COIN platform as well. And as such, a great addition to any DCS ground pounder's hangar. The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dehuman Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 And here we have the two camps of DCS Those that just love the challenge of flight, be it aerobatic or combat. And those that want hi-fi ace combat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo_One Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 And here we have the two camps of DCS Those that just love the challenge of flight, be it aerobatic or combat. And those that want hi-fi ace combat Yeah - I loke both worlds. The truth (As always) lies between 1000 flights, 1000 crashes - perfect record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firmek Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Not very exciting... Digital Training Simulator? :sleep: You know that the "training" is kind of by default embedded in "simulator" word ;) Anyway, you may not like the trainers and only see a reason for the newest and most complex jets. The fact is that answer to the OP question "is there any benefit to buying a trainer" is yes. None of the developers would invest time to develop something that they would not be able to sell. Neither ED or 3'rd party are running a charity. There is a business case behind such planes as there are people that are able to put them to a good use or just simply have a great time flying them. This even includes MP like a BF where guys fly trainers and put them to a good use for a benefit of a whole team rather than jumping into a modern most complex F-18 just to quickly flip few switches and run into a constant pointless air-quake around Sochi. I wouldn't be also surprised that the revenue gain from a relatively simple trainer/light attack plane is much better than investment needed to develop a complex 4th gen multi-role fighter. If you don't remember, someone had actually approached ED and invested to get a Yak 52 developed. For sure they had a good reasons behind it and didn't spend considerable amount of money just for an amusement. Again this clearly illustrates that there are benefits from trainers in DCS. Especially if you want to go deeper and use DCS as a study sim. Whether you like it or not or whether you deliberately try to neglect this fact. F/A-18, F-16, F-14, M-2000C, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37 Viggen, F-5E-3, F-86F, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, L-39 Albatros, C-101 Aviojet, P-51D, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 4-K, UH-1H, Mi-8, Ka-50, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf... and not enough time to fully enjoy it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) None of the developers would invest time to develop something that they would not be able to sell. Hawk... :cry: Especially if you want to go deeper and use DCS as a study sim. My signature bar... :music_whistling: Edited January 29, 2019 by SharpeXB i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudel_chw Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Not very exciting... Digital Training Simulator? :sleep: OK, I've come to the conclusion that this guy is really a troll .. thank god there exists the Ignore list .. hasta la vista nene. For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600X - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia GTX1070ti - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar - Oculus Rift CV1 Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varis Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Easy to learn and you can participate in low intensity / COIN scenarios unlike if you buy say F-5 (trainer/ground attack). Of course the other option would be historic aircraft (Mig-15) or helicopters. Depends on what you prefer. The L-39 is a very mature module with nice features, C-101 just recently got weapons but it sounds like it will be quite nice as well. Hawk had the best performance for a "pure" trainer but the story was quite sad. Instead of trainer aircraft they should have put their resources in spotter aircraft like the OV-10 Bronco. Christen Eagle and P-51 anyone? :lol: SA-342 Ka-50 Mi-8 AJS-37 F-18 M2000C AV-8B-N/A Mig-15bis CA --- How to learn DCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikey Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 I think the "Trainer" word is clearly emotive for some. For training, the use of other people and decent training plans is going to have the most use on your flying effectiveness, as well as stick time with the aircraft you are trying to learn. I actually haven't ever found a real use for Trainers, and have owned and flown them all. What I did find, flying all the modules is that learning the next one was easier, finding the common themes where they existed. The actually civilian lessons systems in other sims served better for civilian training, and I think there's a lot missing in DCS of general Aviation best practice. You can learn that in anything, but you have to do your own work. As folks said, the modules each are excellent and everyone has their favourites. Personally the free TF-51 is a great plane to tech props and some GA. The F-5 is a good one as a simple plane. I still think if you are heading to a more complex modern modules like Harrier or Hornet, then get it and study GA and buy what interests you. ___________________________________________________________________________ SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev2go Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) Easy to learn and you can participate in low intensity / COIN scenarios unlike if you buy say F-5 (trainer/ground attack). Of course the other option would be historic aircraft (Mig-15) or helicopters. Depends on what you prefer. The L-39 is a very mature module with nice features, C-101 just recently got weapons but it sounds like it will be quite nice as well. Hawk had the best performance for a "pure" trainer but the story was quite sad. Christen Eagle and P-51 anyone? :lol: the F5E isnt a trainer or even a pure ground attack plane..... Its an inexpensive " no Frills" lightweight tactical fighter for nations that wanted a budget tactical fighter, to augment their more expnsive A/C fleets like the F4 or couldn't can afford an aircraft like F4 at all. You dont need a "trainer" or light attack" version of a trainer for COIN/ low intensity scearios. Syrians have used Mig21's for exactly that role, or how respective US aviation branches used anything from A10's to F16s to Strike Eagles, to Hornet's in low intensity conflicts in Afghanistan or the Air war against ISIL. Edited January 31, 2019 by Kev2go Build: Windows 10 64 bit Pro Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD, WD 1TB HDD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaser Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 After spending some time with the 101 its a great little aircraft, its pretty analog and very much hands on Im enjoying it [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 You dont need a "trainer" or light attack" version of a trainer for COIN/ low intensity scearios. And you don't need DCS either. If you've got shelter, heat and nutrition, you're set. Everything else is superfluous. The thing is, some folks prefer these machines, because they're fun. And if you can't wrap your head around that - as it seems - your problem, not ours. The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kontiuka Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 And you don't need DCS either. If you've got shelter, heat and nutrition, you're set. Everything else is superfluous. The thing is, some folks prefer these machines, because they're fun.Exactly. It's all about the type of experience you want to have. Some people are rotor heads. Some people like the war birds. Some people like the high tech stuff. And weird people like me like being the underdog in a casually-powered (to quote a Mudspike review) trainer jet like the C-101. Sure, you can do pretty much everything in an F-18 that you can in a trainer, but practicing flight fundamentals just seems more "genuine" in a trainer. Something very satisfying to me about properly setting up your NAV radios, setting up your course lines, making sure your HSI is properly aligned and your gyro erected, struggling to keep a set altitude, making sure you don't exceed engine temp. Then there's the combat part. I get a lot more of a thrill when I get a bomb delivery just right through proper speed, dive angle, and sight depression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 +1 The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmed Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 In my opinion a trainer is not really needed as this is a simulation, as others pointed out, and some of the reasons they are required in real life do not apply here. On the other hand, a trainer aircraft also provides a simpler airframe to learn basic admin/monkey skills and I have to say that I have seen lots of videos on youtube of people who really master the switchology and combat employment of the airplanes but lack basic stick and rudder skills (more evident on landings and especially carrier traps at the end of those videos). So I guess it depends. If you need to improve admin flying then a trainer may be useful as a stepping stone and a fun new aircraft to learn and fly. If not, I don't think it is worth the money investment and I'd recommend going straight to a complex module. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaser Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 [quote name= The thing is, some folks prefer these machines, because they're fun. And if you can't wrap your head around that - as it seems - your problem, not ours. who said it was a problem I was simply asking a question to the community thats all :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cake Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Sure, you can do pretty much everything in an F-18 that you can in a trainer, but practicing flight fundamentals just seems more "genuine" in a trainer. Something very satisfying to me about properly setting up your NAV radios, setting up your course lines, making sure your HSI is properly aligned and your gyro erected, struggling to keep a set altitude, making sure you don't exceed engine temp. I'm on the same page, but to push a little more, there is a lot that you cannot learn in a fly-by-wire aircraft. There is a lot you cannot learn in a turbojet aircraft. The best aviators are usually students of everything related to flying. Many in this community are students and enthusiasts of aviation. Some want to jump into a DCS plane and experience P-factor, torque, and spiraling slipstream. Some want fly airplanes that require more careful energy management. Some probably want to fly gliders. We all have our own reasons for flying in DCS and our own wish list for the next aircraft. Each time a developer puts out a properly completed new aircraft, it's a win for the community. It builds the DCS player base and opens new possibilities for the future. The community is bigger than any one of us or any subset of us. 6700K@4.6 48Gb - 1080Ti Hybrid - Warthog - RIFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svsmokey Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Some probably want to fly gliders.. Well said , but we prefer to call them sailplanes :) 9700k @ stock , Aorus Pro Z390 wifi , 32gb 3200 mhz CL16 , 1tb EVO 970 , MSI RX 6800XT Gaming X TRIO , Seasonic Prime 850w Gold , Coolermaster H500m , Noctua NH-D15S , CH Pro throttle and T50CM2/WarBrD base on Foxxmounts , CH pedals , Reverb G2v2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varis Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 the F5E isnt a trainer or even a pure ground attack plane..... Its an inexpensive " no Frills" lightweight tactical fighter for nations that wanted a budget tactical fighter, to augment their more expnsive A/C fleets like the F4 or couldn't can afford an aircraft like F4 at all. You dont need a "trainer" or light attack" version of a trainer for COIN/ low intensity scearios. Syrians have used Mig21's for exactly that role, or how respective US aviation branches used anything from A10's to F16s to Strike Eagles, to Hornet's in low intensity conflicts in Afghanistan or the Air war against ISIL. Seems it all depends if you want to consider DCS gameplay or how things are in reality (and often not fully modelled in the game by a long stretch). Also whether you want to play multiplayer or single player. You can refer to this classification: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=225516 In the end it becomes pretty much a moot argument when you are playing a sandbox game :music_whistling: SA-342 Ka-50 Mi-8 AJS-37 F-18 M2000C AV-8B-N/A Mig-15bis CA --- How to learn DCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cake Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Well said , but we prefer to call them sailplanes :) Right on. I've never flown a sailplane, but I can tell you that I've instructed and given flight checks to those who have and they perform much better when they lose their engine. 6700K@4.6 48Gb - 1080Ti Hybrid - Warthog - RIFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 who said it was a problem I was simply asking a question to the community thats al Wasn't you who said it was a problem and I wasn't even replying to you, but certain other individuals here don't seem to grasp that some folks like to fly them for fun. And find COIN ops in them great fun as well, compared to, say, flying that same stuff in a Hornet. The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) Both trainers are an absolute joy to fly if you already have some other modules and are into collecting more aircraft. For people short on funds maybe not the best option as they do lack combat capability air to air and air to ground. It is a blast hunting light ground targets and do some coin with them though. Highly recommended ! And be aware, people voting against those trainers often just do not own them ;-) Edited February 2, 2019 by River Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firmek Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 ... And be aware, people voting against those trainers often just do not own them ;-) +1 F/A-18, F-16, F-14, M-2000C, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37 Viggen, F-5E-3, F-86F, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, L-39 Albatros, C-101 Aviojet, P-51D, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 4-K, UH-1H, Mi-8, Ka-50, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf... and not enough time to fully enjoy it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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