A Worthy Module for the Hanger?

[EcosseFlyer]

Hi,

 

Eyeing up a few new modules but still remain undecided on which one to go for.

 

Just wondering what the current state of the Harrier is? I note from reading through forums that there are still a few bugs and complaints around it, but overall its a very good simulation?

 

I'm not a natural dog fighter so is the Harrier a good platform for A2G operations? (Coming from the A-10)

 

The Harrier has always been a favourite of mine, so I am keen on getting it, but just wanted opinions on whether it was currently a recommended module.

[HawkEye989]

Although the harrier is not finished, I use it regularly for a wide span of missions.. I don't know if you got the F/A-18C, that is worth it as well. I use them both for A/G mission and had a lot of fun until now. Apart from that both are capable of engaging fighters especially the hornet since it's focused to be a multi-role aircraft. I don't have the Viggen so I cannot comment about it but from what I read, the viggen is not the CAS type.. it's more of the hit and run type. If I'm wrong correct me !

[epoch]

The Harrier is by far my favourite module. It's great fun, pretty easy to learn it's systems, and not that difficult to fly. Even vertical carrier landings isn't too difficult, once you get the hang of it.

 

But for sure there's some issues that have been outstanding for quite some time, and little evidence that any attention is being paid to them (though apparently you have to be on Facebook to keep up to date with 'development'). If you can cope with the negatives I'd say get the Harrier.

[dooom]

IMO any issues are not deal breakers by any means... its still the best harrier simulation you can find and fun as H*ll... for the cost of a night out at the movies I'd say get it and have fun.

[Harlikwin]

Alot of people will tell you its broken, and it is. Lots of things don't work, or don't work as they should (like the DMT not being able to track moving targets), and honestly the Dev team is pretty bad about keeping people up to date (2 weeks ago they mentioned there would be an update, still nada). I bought it a few months ago, and I think its actually less functional due to bugs than it was when I got it. The key point is that its been like this for a while (1 year?) and I don't think its going to get rapidly fixed, the Dev's have their eyes set on releasing the Mig19 and then updating the M2k first. I'd be surprised if any major fixes happen before the halfway point of this year.

 

That being said, you can fly it, and the AA missiles work, and some of the AG ordnance is functional, if not always entirely accurately, and some things break with various updates (sidearms, mavs etc) though they usu sally get fixed after a while. Other things like ECM to my knowledge don't work, and the T-pod is semi functional and finicky.

 

I'm currently learning on the A10, and its way more functional than the harrier, but its been a complete module for a while. Otherwise, the A10 wins in terms of weapons/accuracy, but you can land the harrier more places and its faster. Its fun to fly, but the various issues with targeting and weapons are pretty lame honestly.

 

If its between the F18 and the Harrier for you, I'd go with the F18, it seems to be getting finished/updated much more quickly.

[Thudster]

Nuff said...

Fly it - it rocks.

[Shadow_1stVFW]

 

 

The Harrier has always been a favourite of mine, so I am keen on getting it, but just wanted opinions on whether it was currently a recommended module.

 

Put simply, ask yourself "Do I want to fly the Harrier?"

 

If yes - sure. Buy it, you'll have fun.

 

If no, not really - I wouldn't. You won't have fun.

 

If kind of, looking for something new - but it on a sale, fly it occasionally. You'll have no complaints.

 

Food for thought. The Harrier and A-10 aren't exactly the same type of attack aircraft. If you like having a load of options while airborne, or the ability to clear an entire objective alone, you won't find that with the Harrier.

 

The Harrier is more of a study the Target before flight, identify the key strengths of that target, fingure out how to attack that. And make a more precise attack on a specific part of the objective. Fly out there, take a look, make sure what you see matches what you planned for, and either change your plan or carry out your attack. CAS in the jet, with a good mission is usually great fun. I have my JTAC, usually a LAV lasing for me, usually some sort of armor and 2 squads of infantry and another LAV. Once the armor is destroyed the ground units move to take an objective. I stick around to help pick off anything else that may hurt them.

 

Point is you've got more options on HOW to employ weapons and the A-10 gives you more options on WHAT to employ.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[MegOhm_SD]

Harrier is alot of fun to fly even in its current state.

Go for it.

[toilet2000]

At the very least wait for a sale.

 

Bugs are rampant, a lot of features are missing. A lot of people mistake bugs and unfinished systems for not knowing how they work.

 

The thing is, almost every single mission the Harrier is supposed to do is completely or partially blocked by a bug or a missing feature. Examples:

 

CAS: TPOD is extremely buggy. Not only can you not slave the TPOD to a waypoint or the A/C line of sight (the opposite is true, but really buggy, as soon as you designate the TPOD changes for the DMT page and you loose your TPOD picture), but moving target track is not working, the laser designation is extremely limited in range (compared to IRL counterpart). Moreover, the inertia of asymetric load is absolutely ridiculous and overdone (according to RL Harrier pilots) making it hard to stay on station while pickling off one GBU at a time. On top of that, the CAS page isn’t implemented, as is the CAS Datalink that the JTAC are supposed to be using. That, with a broken coordinate input system (unable to input a waypoint if no waypoint are present at first, no "precise" decimal waypoints as is required for accurate weapon delivery) and no JDAM makes for a hard time doing modern CAS.

 

Low level strike: AUTO bombing symbology is simply broken and unhelpful. One of the most useful feature of the Harrier for low level delivery (CCIP to AUTO designation) is not implemented.

 

Night strike: broken FLIR, no hotspot tracker, no NAVFLIR calibration means you can’t even CCIP correctly.

 

Battlefield Air Interdiction: the Maverick implementation is extremely broken in the Harrier. No ground stabilize, no IR Cool switch functionality and you can’t even align the seeker without losing a MFCD for 3 minutes (because as soon as you change the page, it resets it). No TPOD to Mav handoff because of the broken TPOD. Controlling the seeker is actually extremely buggy, because you have to have the seeker page on the left MFCD to control it but it appears by default on the right MFCD (where it shouldn’t even show at all IRL).

 

And yeah, it could be a pretty good module if Razbam actually did something. But it’s been in the dark for the last 6 months (ie no new features, extremely minor bug fixes). Even their bugtracker is updated maybe once per month, at tops.

 

Would not recommend, certainly not at full price.

[bkthunder]

At the very least wait for a sale.

 

Bugs are rampant, a lot of features are missing. A lot of people mistake bugs and unfinished systems for not knowing how they work.

 

The thing is, almost every single mission the Harrier is supposed to do is completely or partially blocked by a bug or a missing feature. Examples:

 

CAS: TPOD is extremely buggy. Not only can you not slave the TPOD to a waypoint or the A/C line of sight (the opposite is true, but really buggy, as soon as you designate the TPOD changes for the DMT page and you loose your TPOD picture), but moving target track is not working, the laser designation is extremely limited in range (compared to IRL counterpart). Moreover, the inertia of asymetric load is absolutely ridiculous and overdone (according to RL Harrier pilots) making it hard to stay on station while pickling off one GBU at a time. On top of that, the CAS page isn’t implemented, as is the CAS Datalink that the JTAC are supposed to be using. That, with a broken coordinate input system (unable to input a waypoint if no waypoint are present at first, no "precise" decimal waypoints as is required for accurate weapon delivery) and no JDAM makes for a hard time doing modern CAS.

 

Low level strike: AUTO bombing symbology is simply broken and unhelpful. One of the most useful feature of the Harrier for low level delivery (CCIP to AUTO designation) is not implemented.

 

Night strike: broken FLIR, no hotspot tracker, no NAVFLIR calibration means you can’t even CCIP correctly.

 

Battlefield Air Interdiction: the Maverick implementation is extremely broken in the Harrier. No ground stabilize, no IR Cool switch functionality and you can’t even align the seeker without losing a MFCD for 3 minutes (because as soon as you change the page, it resets it). No TPOD to Mav handoff because of the broken TPOD. Controlling the seeker is actually extremely buggy, because you have to have the seeker page on the left MFCD to control it but it appears by default on the right MFCD (where it shouldn’t even show at all IRL).

 

And yeah, it could be a pretty good module if Razbam actually did something. But it’s been in the dark for the last 6 months (ie no new features, extremely minor bug fixes). Even their bugtracker is updated maybe once per month, at tops.

 

Would not recommend, certainly not at full price.

 

Very clearly explained :thumbup:

[TheNanny]

I'd say it's way too heavy and too big to fit on a hanger.

[Harlikwin]

At the very least wait for a sale.

 

Bugs are rampant, a lot of features are missing. A lot of people mistake bugs and unfinished systems for not knowing how they work.

 

The thing is, almost every single mission the Harrier is supposed to do is completely or partially blocked by a bug or a missing feature. Examples:

 

CAS: TPOD is extremely buggy. Not only can you not slave the TPOD to a waypoint or the A/C line of sight (the opposite is true, but really buggy, as soon as you designate the TPOD changes for the DMT page and you loose your TPOD picture), but moving target track is not working, the laser designation is extremely limited in range (compared to IRL counterpart). Moreover, the inertia of asymetric load is absolutely ridiculous and overdone (according to RL Harrier pilots) making it hard to stay on station while pickling off one GBU at a time. On top of that, the CAS page isn’t implemented, as is the CAS Datalink that the JTAC are supposed to be using. That, with a broken coordinate input system (unable to input a waypoint if no waypoint are present at first, no "precise" decimal waypoints as is required for accurate weapon delivery) and no JDAM makes for a hard time doing modern CAS.

 

Low level strike: AUTO bombing symbology is simply broken and unhelpful. One of the most useful feature of the Harrier for low level delivery (CCIP to AUTO designation) is not implemented.

 

Night strike: broken FLIR, no hotspot tracker, no NAVFLIR calibration means you can’t even CCIP correctly.

 

Battlefield Air Interdiction: the Maverick implementation is extremely broken in the Harrier. No ground stabilize, no IR Cool switch functionality and you can’t even align the seeker without losing a MFCD for 3 minutes (because as soon as you change the page, it resets it). No TPOD to Mav handoff because of the broken TPOD. Controlling the seeker is actually extremely buggy, because you have to have the seeker page on the left MFCD to control it but it appears by default on the right MFCD (where it shouldn’t even show at all IRL).

 

And yeah, it could be a pretty good module if Razbam actually did something. But it’s been in the dark for the last 6 months (ie no new features, extremely minor bug fixes). Even their bugtracker is updated maybe once per month, at tops.

 

Would not recommend, certainly not at full price.

 

Good list. :thumbup:

 

I don't know what would be the easiest to fix off it, but at a guess the auto-bombing/night strike might be. I mainly use CCIP since it "seems to work" though I'm not sure its working like it does IRL, at least I can put bombs on targets.

 

DMT/TPOD/Mavs just sounds like a integrated mess of issues. The ability to hit moving targets with Mav's would be nice, I thought the DMT had the ability to track movers so that may be the first thing to fix.

 

JDAM/CAS, I'd love to see it, but I don't think JDAM's are currently in DCS right now yet (maybe hornet will intro them?)

Edited January 30, 2019 by Harlikwin

[toilet2000]

JDAM/CAS, I'd love to see it, but I don't think JDAM's are currently in DCS right now yet (maybe hornet will intro them?)

 

The A-10C has them... And it had them from its release in 2011. JDAMs are definitely in DCS!

[Harlikwin]

The A-10C has them... And it had them from its release in 2011. JDAMs are definitely in DCS!

 

I haven't gotten that far yet in the A-10 :music_whistling:

 

Good to know, hopefully they will be implemented for the harrier as well.

[toilet2000]

I haven't gotten that far yet in the A-10 :music_whistling:

 

Good to know, hopefully they will be implemented for the harrier as well.

 

It was in their promised features list when it released in early access, so we are supposed to be getting them...

[Harlikwin]

Personally I've uninstalled both the M-2000C and AV-8B modules from DCS. Maybe someday I'll re-install them again once they've matured enough. Just not feeling it for awhile now and have moved on to other modules instead.

 

I've got the M2k too. I thought it was basically feature complete, am I wrong on that?

 

 

Also, I didn't realize how badly implemented the ARBS (key harrier feature) actually is until I read the thread in the bug forum.

[toilet2000]

I've got the M2k too. I thought it was basically feature complete, am I wrong on that?

 

 

Also, I didn't realize how badly implemented the ARBS (key harrier feature) actually is until I read the thread in the bug forum.

 

 

The Mirage we have is supposed to be getting an overhaul after inputs from the AdA (Armée de l'Air, the French Air Force).

 

 

 

Theoretically though, the Mirage has never been feature complete, with several features simply missing (almost all the VTH switches and features are not present in the sim, the ground mapping radar tech too) and other broken things (CCIP and CCRP are notable examples). I would say the Mirage is still in a better place (with 2018 has been a good year for the Mirage, at least in respect to what Razbam delivered so far) than the AV-8B by a large margin. You can definitely do what the Mirage 2000C was intended to do with the current state of the module (although I've heard that some issues have popped up about TWS being broken, maybe that's fixed though).

[Harlikwin]

The Mirage we have is supposed to be getting an overhaul after inputs from the AdA (Armée de l'Air, the French Air Force).

 

 

 

Theoretically though, the Mirage has never been feature complete, with several features simply missing (almost all the VTH switches and features are not present in the sim, the ground mapping radar tech too) and other broken things (CCIP and CCRP are notable examples). I would say the Mirage is still in a better place (with 2018 has been a good year for the Mirage, at least in respect to what Razbam delivered so far) than the AV-8B by a large margin. You can definitely do what the Mirage 2000C was intended to do with the current state of the module (although I've heard that some issues have popped up about TWS being broken, maybe that's fixed though).

 

Hmm, that seems like a bad pattern. I can sort of give a pass on A/G for the mirage as its 50/50 air to air, and strike.

 

However the fact they don't seem to be able to implment realistic A/G modes (CCIP/CCRP) for either the harrier (its main selling point) or the mirage is pretty concerning. It would be like heat-blur neglecting to model the AWG-9 for the F14. And my understanding is the A10C does decently model those modes.

[viper2097]

Alot of people will tell you its broken, and it is. Lots of things don't work, or don't work as they should (like the DMT not being able to track moving targets), and honestly the Dev team is pretty bad about keeping people up to date (2 weeks ago they mentioned there would be an update, still nada). I bought it a few months ago, and I think its actually less functional due to bugs than it was when I got it. The key point is that its been like this for a while (1 year?) and I don't think its going to get rapidly fixed, the Dev's have their eyes set on releasing the Mig19 and then updating the M2k first. I'd be surprised if any major fixes happen before the halfway point of this year.

 

That being said, you can fly it, and the AA missiles work, and some of the AG ordnance is functional, if not always entirely accurately, and some things break with various updates (sidearms, mavs etc) though they usu sally get fixed after a while. Other things like ECM to my knowledge don't work, and the T-pod is semi functional and finicky.

 

That describes it very good.

I bought it because I love the M2000 and I think Razbam did a good work there.

The Mirage can be bought, but I would not buy the Harrier again, and if I could, i would return it.

 

As it is maybe ok to sell it and charge money in the actual state the module is, it is a pure checkiness in the face of paying custiomers that over that timespan(!) nothing to zero happend.

 

I've learned my lession. I will not buy any EA or Beta modules form Razbam, and they have to deliver good work and change a lot on themselfes in the future that I will ever buy anything again from them.

 

So far:

If you can life with a lot of really annoying bugs that will probably never get fixed and love the Harrier, go for it.

If you like good and finished modules with minor issues, go further, there is nothing to see here.

 

BTW: I'm not very familiar with the Harrier, but also the flight module does not really feels good.

[EcosseFlyer]

I think I've been spoiled with the A-10C being so fleshed out,systems wise and very little bugs.

 

I suppose the only thing holding me back on the Harrier is the fact it seems to be the most expensive DCS module bar the Hornet, hence why I was getting opinions and pointers on any game breaking bugs.

 

A possible sale might be the plan to pick it up and go for one of the other modules first I've been looking at.

[DowntownSIX]

At the very least wait for a sale.

 

Bugs are rampant, a lot of features are missing. A lot of people mistake bugs and unfinished systems for not knowing how they work.

 

The thing is, almost every single mission the Harrier is supposed to do is completely or partially blocked by a bug or a missing feature. Examples:

 

CAS: TPOD is extremely buggy. Not only can you not slave the TPOD to a waypoint or the A/C line of sight (the opposite is true, but really buggy, as soon as you designate the TPOD changes for the DMT page and you loose your TPOD picture), but moving target track is not working, the laser designation is extremely limited in range (compared to IRL counterpart). Moreover, the inertia of asymetric load is absolutely ridiculous and overdone (according to RL Harrier pilots) making it hard to stay on station while pickling off one GBU at a time. On top of that, the CAS page isn’t implemented, as is the CAS Datalink that the JTAC are supposed to be using. That, with a broken coordinate input system (unable to input a waypoint if no waypoint are present at first, no "precise" decimal waypoints as is required for accurate weapon delivery) and no JDAM makes for a hard time doing modern CAS.

 

Low level strike: AUTO bombing symbology is simply broken and unhelpful. One of the most useful feature of the Harrier for low level delivery (CCIP to AUTO designation) is not implemented.

 

Night strike: broken FLIR, no hotspot tracker, no NAVFLIR calibration means you can’t even CCIP correctly.

 

Battlefield Air Interdiction: the Maverick implementation is extremely broken in the Harrier. No ground stabilize, no IR Cool switch functionality and you can’t even align the seeker without losing a MFCD for 3 minutes (because as soon as you change the page, it resets it). No TPOD to Mav handoff because of the broken TPOD. Controlling the seeker is actually extremely buggy, because you have to have the seeker page on the left MFCD to control it but it appears by default on the right MFCD (where it shouldn’t even show at all IRL).

 

And yeah, it could be a pretty good module if Razbam actually did something. But it’s been in the dark for the last 6 months (ie no new features, extremely minor bug fixes). Even their bugtracker is updated maybe once per month, at tops.

 

Would not recommend, certainly not at full price.

 

*mic drop*

 

I think it's going to be brilliant, one day, but right now it's a frustrating experience because of the above.

[Dehuman]

Theoretically though, the Mirage has never been feature complete, with several features simply missing (almost all the VTH switches and features are not present in the sim, the ground mapping radar tech too) and other broken things (CCIP and CCRP are notable examples).

 

The radar are either features that aren't able to be replicated in the current DCS radar framework or until recently, secrets.

 

What's wrong with the CCIP and CCRP? I know the CCRP used to chronically overshoot the target (how it's meant to be for GBUs?) but seems as good as one should expect from a fighter aircraft these days.

[Schmidtfire]

Harrier is pretty bad at the moment. Probably the most bugged, unfinished and inaccurate module in DCS echo system. I have all modules and it does not hold up. Hopefully Razbam will give it the attention it needs.

 

You can still have fun with it, but for me the simulation and systems are sub-par. Again, hopefully it won’t stay that way.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Schmidtfire

[Jowen G. Bruère-Dawson]

I agree with some of the opinions here. The Harrier is definitely not worth 69€. 30€ is the max admissible price in its current state.

 

I'll advise you to wait until it get some love or a 50% price reduction.

 

That being said, I admit that I have some fun with it. It can do the job. But it's not what we want on a simulator. Participating to the open beta and do bug report is also a good thing.

 

The Mirage 2000 is good. I'm currently at my type rating on 2000 and instructors say good things about the Razbam's 2000C. It is not complete or 100% realistic though. Can't wait for the mid-life overhaul !

[Vfa-81 Fix]

With so many deeply dissapointed people around maybe one of them is willing to do a good deed and gift his license to the OP?

 

He then could finally find his peace and the OP can see if he likes what is offered without going bankrupt in the process.

 

Win - Win I´d say.