Valve Index - new HMD in May

[Johnny Dioxin]

I wasn't defending Oculus - merely stating the facts, but a lot of people live in fairy-dairy land, so can't be helped.

[dburne]

Any one else notice it's actually cheaper ($72) if you order the complete kit separately?

And what the World? Has the pre-orders already sold out!!

Gezzz, I can reserve one now, but not order, what happened?

 

Last I saw they were looking at Sept delivery for orders now.

[PhilSkyfire]

Any one else notice it's actually cheaper ($72) if you order the complete kit separately?

And what the World? Has the pre-orders already sold out!!

Gezzz, I can reserve one now, but not order, what happened?

 

I don't saw the price you're refering - but have you added two Lighthouses in your calculation? The price is only for one lighthouse in germany. So summed up we end up with ~80€ more here.

[Callsign.Vega]

Unless Vega knows something we don't, you are not wrong. The headset will not talk to the lighthouses and the lighthouses will not talk to the headset.

The lighthouses may (I simply do not know) talk to the controllers and track those, but I don't know how they will display through the Reverb, since it is WMR and the lighthouses are steam VR.

Rift tracked the touch controllers through the cameras, but button presses were registered via wireless connection with the headset itself.

Is this the same with Index?

 

Is steam VR compatible with WMR?

 

 

Too many unknowns to try make a mix and match system.

 

The HP Reverb would still track the headset movement with its two WMR cameras. The SteamVR controllers would be tracked through the lighthouses.

 

 

 

Pimax will be dead in a couple of months if they don't do something radical - 1.5 headsets coming out this month from reputable companies with great software support are on par or better. I am not sure why people bought it in first place, I guess it's thirst for better clarity in VR, but resolution is only one of many factors.

 

I am holding off for a month of two with Index - initial reports say it suffers from god rays quite a lot, so I'll have to try one in person before I buy it. On paper it sounds great for DCS and other sims.

 

I regret buying into the Pimax. I bought the 8K-X which appears to have disappeared. In the interim, I got a 5K+ as a loaner that is broken. When it was working, it wasn't as impressive as I thought it would be. Resolution is too low for such a large FOV.

 

 

I don't know why people are dissing Oculus and saying things such as they are not interested in furthering PCVR - didn't you guys see the interview recently?

 

They want to concentrate on getting more poeple into VR before they start pushing out higher spec headsets, because 1) it's not financially viable with the numbers they would sell and 2) current consumer hardware would have a hard time achieving acceptable performance with it.

 

I don't see why it's so hard to understand - they have confirmed Rift 2 for PC will be coming from Oculus - just not yet.

 

I don't have a problem with that - Rift S will do for now - patience, Grasshopper!

 

Ya but they lose all of the people that owned the original Rift by coming out with another Gen 1 VR headset. As a original Rift owner, as soon as I saw the pathetic low Rift S resolution I wrote it off instantly.

 

I don't saw the price you're refering - but have you added two Lighthouses in your calculation? The price is only for one lighthouse in germany. So summed up we end up with ~80€ more here.

 

Correct, the full kit is ~$/€ 80 cheaper. Two lighthouses alone cost $/€300.

[nessuno0505]

If you base on specs only, valve index does not seem to be so advanced vs Rift s: Index has got a slightly higer res with a slightly higher fov, both lcd panels, so maybe visual clarity Is quite the same. Index uses the same "old" tracking system than the original vive, but It was good so no need to change. Maybe the new steam controllers are better, but Rift original touch are very good and so Rift s ones are more or less the same, no need to change. Index has phisical ipd and integrated headphones (but you can plug a pair on Rift s). Oh yes, you can change frame rate in index, but I bet noone Will notice the difference. That's the "huge" difference between the two. The difference in price Is huge for real instead. It Is not about "defending Oculus", it's Just a matter of fact that quality / price ratio Is way higher for Rift s.

Edited May 2, 2019 by nessuno0505

[nessuno0505]

Ya but they lose all of the people that owned the original Rift by coming out with another Gen 1 VR headset. As a original Rift owner, as soon as I saw the pathetic low Rift S resolution I wrote it off instantly.

 

My Rift CV1 Is on sale as I'll buy Rift s. At least for what I'm concerned you are wrong.

[some1]

The HP Reverb would still track the headset movement with its two WMR cameras. The SteamVR controllers would be tracked through the lighthouses.

 

 

 

 

The lighthouses don't track anything. It's the controller that tracks the lighthouses position and sends it to the PC through headset bluetooth connection.

 

So it will work only if Reverb/WMR will be able to talk to the new Index controllers.

[Callsign.Vega]

The lighthouses don't track anything. It's the controller that tracks the lighthouses position and sends it to the PC through headset bluetooth connection.

 

So it will work only if Reverb/WMR will be able to talk to the new Index controllers.

 

You need lighthouses for the tracking right? So the tracking occurs using the lighthouses. How the controllers send the tracking information for that statement is irrelevant.

 

You obviously didn't watch the video.

[some1]

You need lighthouses for the tracking right? So the tracking occurs using the lighthouses. How the controllers send the tracking information for that statement is irrelevant.

 

You obviously didn't watch the video.

 

I did, and the guy explains it in the beginning. You need to either keep the Vive headset powered on and connected, even though you use WMR (the controllers send data to Vive, not WMR), or use dongles from Vive Trackers (120 Euro a pop).

 

So to get it working, you'll have to keep your current headset connected, or buy another accesory. That asssuming that those Vive dongles are compatible with Knuckles - they're not mentioned on Steam website.

[Supmua]

Valve Index - new HMD in May

 

Have you guys seen the Oculus Quest’s specs? Now that’s the headset that should’ve been included with the Rift S—Higher res OLED screen *with* mechanical IPD adjustment.

 

Oculus is cutting corners here with the Rift upgrade, how hard would it be to come out with the Quest headset that is also usable with PC—or even a separate PC-tethered version. That is why I’m going with the Index.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Supmua

[dburne]

Have you guys seen the Oculus Quest’s specs? Now that’s the headset that should’ve been included with the Rift S—Higher res OLED screen *with* mechanical IPD adjustment.

 

Oculus is cutting corners here with the Rift upgrade, how hard would it be to come out with the Quest headset that is also usable with PC—or even a separate PC-tethered version. That is why I’m going with the Index.

 

Yes I agree.

Keep in mind though Oculus tasked Lenovo to build the Rift S headset, while their main focus was on Quest.

They likely had a target price they wanted it to be at and not go over.

[Callsign.Vega]

I did, and the guy explains it in the beginning. You need to either keep the Vive headset powered on and connected, even though you use WMR (the controllers send data to Vive, not WMR), or use dongles from Vive Trackers (120 Euro a pop).

 

So to get it working, you'll have to keep your current headset connected, or buy another accesory. That asssuming that those Vive dongles are compatible with Knuckles - they're not mentioned on Steam website.

 

Ya but I think it is a decent trade-off to have the best HMD working with the best controller tracking.

[nrosko]

I hope Oculus bring out a rift 2 soon, like next year. I ordered the index but i still prefer Oculus home & their games.

[dburne]

I hope Oculus bring out a rift 2 soon, like next year. I ordered the index but i still prefer Oculus home & their games.

 

That would certainly be nice if they did, but somehow I am not sure they will that soon after the Rift S.

Will be interesting to see where their focus goes after Quest and Rift S release this month.

I think right now they are more about growing the volume, and hoping Quest and Go do that for them.

I expect they want a lot of new users, not just ones upgrading from Rift.

[71st_Mastiff]

That would certainly be nice if they did, but somehow I am not sure they will that soon after the Rift S.

Will be interesting to see where their focus goes after Quest and Rift S release this month.

I think right now they are more about growing the volume, and hoping Quest and Go do that for them.

I expect they want a lot of new users, not just ones upgrading from Rift.

 

It's like when I walk into a thrift store or even a Walmart and see all those Slap on iphone, Galaxy cell phone VR devices that are not selling.

Thats what Im fearing I'm going to see with the Rift-S.

[nessuno0505]

Have you guys seen the Oculus Quest’s specs? Now that’s the headset that should’ve been included with the Rift S—Higher res OLED screen *with* mechanical IPD adjustment.

 

Oculus is cutting corners here with the Rift upgrade, how hard would it be to come out with the Quest headset that is also usable with PC—or even a separate PC-tethered version. That is why I’m going with the Index.

 

You complain Rift s Is lcd and not oled, and then you buy an index which Is lcd? You seem a bit confused. Lcd Is more clear compared to oled at the same resolution, that's why all the new 1.5 hmds are lcd, included Rift s and valve index.

[Supmua]

You complain Rift s Is lcd and not oled, and then you buy an index which Is lcd? You seem a bit confused. Lcd Is more clear compared to oled at the same resolution, that's why all the new 1.5 hmds are lcd, included Rift s and valve index.

 

Nope I'm pretty clear on what I buy (currently own 3 diff headsets), it's just that the Rift S isn't on my radar.

 

It is true that I would prefer OLED in general due to true black and color vibrancy, but the Index screen has certain positive perks such as the ability to turn off pixels 5x faster than the VIVE screen as well as having higher refresh rates, meaning minimal image retention when you need to use motion smoothing option. According to the Tested podcast, this is huge and makes everything more alive when coupled with slight increase in FOV. This is just the screen aspect. When you add the Knuckles/Index controllers into the equation, the choice (mine) becomes very clear.

 

The present Oculus seems to be heading in the wrong direction, hence they will not get my money this time around. They are going for the money/mass adoption (which may or may not happen), rather than pushing the VR technology forward.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Supmua

[Supmua]

Also, I was expecting a complete kit to be $1,200 or more, so I'm not disappointed in the price point at all.

As I've mentioned in several post, the Index was never gonna be for the budget minded VR user. However, Valve usually puts out some fairly good discounts around Christmas, so for the budget minded, it might be something.

 

I am disappointed that it wasn't a 4K setup, and 4K displays are available, and viable for the very latest PC upper-end hardware builds.

 

My other option was going to be an XTAL, and if XTAL does produce a commercial/consumer version, I may still purchase one, but for this year it will be the Valve Index.

 

Reverb is out, as I must have the IPD adjustment (for me IPD adjustment makes a huge difference), and the lighthouse tracking system (see above post).

 

The Acer OJO ConceptD will have IPD adjustment with the same resolution as the HP Reverb which is crazy high. It won't have the lighthouse tracking though you can hack it in--but a hack is still a hack, i.e. won't ever be as good as native support.

 

The XTAL would be the ideal headset for me, except that I do not have 5K to throw around lol.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Supmua

[Nagilem]

I think xtal would have some serious buyers if they could cut the price in half. At $2500 I think they would have orders out the door and then some.

[nessuno0505]

The present Oculus seems to be heading in the wrong direction, hence they will not get my money this time around. They are going for the money/mass adoption (which may or may not happen), rather than pushing the VR technology forward.

 

I would not say so: they surely are going for mass adoption but this Is understandable since this Is what they have learned from cv1: when Rift was 700+ bucks with controllers vive dominated the market, then they dropped the price and things changed. But I'd not say they are not pushing technology forward: they are the first to use inside-out tracking with 5 cameras (wmr devices use only 2 cameras; steam stations 2.0 have a larger play area than original vive, but with inside-out technology the play area Is virtually infinite) and they have upgraded the screen and the lenses. They Just have cut some (minor?) features to have a more viable quality / price ratio, such as phisical ipd adjustment (two screens, moving parts, more complex to build) and headphones (but I'm not sure this Is a dwawback or an advantage). Moreover, Oculus / Facebook has way more financial resources than valve so they can keep the price low and continue to invest. Rift 2.0 Is not cancelled, Just delayed. I'll have my minor upgrade with just 200 bucks (my cv1 Is sold for 250) and I'm ready to put the big money in a real 2nd gen hmd when we'll have one (imho index or reverb are not).

Edited May 3, 2019 by nessuno0505

[mhe]

I think xtal would have some serious buyers if they could cut the price in half. At $2500 I think they would have orders out the door and then some.

 

2 grand for an XTAL? Sign me up!

 

However, the quoted 5 grand is not even including taxes, so for everyday folk who don't own companies, the actual price is 6000 Euros. One has to work a while to pile up that kind of funds. And it probably won't hold its value well, others will get their hands on what they did and reverse engineer the hell out of that thing, even if they patented their secret sauce. I am just happy that the VR arms race is picking up pace.

 

Also, StarVR (at a mere 3200 USD excl taxes for the dev kit when they still had them) might see the light of day under Acer's wing eventually. They talked about it. No doubt, XTAL and StarVR are the best HMDs in existence, but I think in the "you are not filthy rich" class, Index will be hard to beat for the foreseeable future.

[dburne]

https://www.pcgamer.com/the-valve-index-vr-kit-sold-out-in-under-30-minutes-in-the-us/

[nessuno0505]

That does not mean anything: enthusiasts buy at day one since the dawn of time. We'll se within a year if the right strategy is steam's or oculus one.

[remi]

That does not mean anything: enthusiasts buy at day one since the dawn of time. We'll se within a year if the right strategy is steam's or oculus one.

 

The Valve Index does most things right, I pre-ordered it, and I guess a ton of other people agree.

 

 

I might still get a Vive Pro Eye for wireless.

[dburne]

The Valve Index does most things right, I pre-ordered it, and I guess a ton of other people agree.

 

 

I might still get a Vive Pro Eye for wireless.

 

I look forward to hearing reports on how the Index does.

I have a Rift S coming, but may still get an Index - least I have a few months to decide now.