Iceman will NOT avoid terrain

[key_stroked]

Unsure if this is a bug or intended behavior.

 

 

 

[kengou]

Iceman is very basic right now and this is definitely not within his capability. I really hope a radar altitude hold mode is created for him eventually though!

[IronMike]

Iceman is not an AI as such. Please understand that initially we did not want to create anything for Singleplayer RIOs but ultimately decided that a very basic "pilot concept" would benefit players to experience the RIO seat also in Singleplayer. This means that in Singleplayer you as the RIO have to ultimately make sure he does not crash into something, etc.

 

We have no intentions at the moment to expand the Iceman "AI" any further, although we might add some very small functions like very basic orbit or fly to waypoint, without touching his rudimentary flying abilities. I'd like to emphasize "might", as even these two small things we cannot promise atm, they are very low on the current priority list.

 

We are aware that this will be disappointing for those who would like to get more out of Iceman, and our sincere apologies for that, but it would be a tremendous effort to introduce anything beyond what Iceman can do now. Even making him pull a small amount of Gs, clever terrain avoidance, landings, take offs or even keeping the autopilot like ACLS landings would cost us a huge amount of time on the expense of other things that we actually did promise, like evolving Jester, the carriers, the A-6, the A version and so on. Developing an AI that can pilot somewhat realistically is an enormous task that could take years even. In this sense, please consider the Iceman-AI as 99.9% feature complete.

 

Thank you for your kind understanding.

Edited May 16, 2019 by IronMike

[key_stroked]

Rgr, that's what I figured. I guess the fact that AI wingmen can avoid terrain is completely different from Iceman avoiding terrain.

[IronMike]

Rgr, that's what I figured. I guess the fact that AI wingmen can avoid terrain is completely different from Iceman avoiding terrain.

 

Yes, that is because calling Iceman an AI in fact is a bit misleading. It is better to look at him more like - if I may say a bit jokingly in the hopes that swither won't rip my head off - a "glorified autopilot". :)

[key_stroked]

I think he serves a great purpose in keeping the jet from crashing on flat ground when you want to practice as a RIO against training targets in a controlled environment.

 

I wouldn't ever expect to be a single player RIO and actually complete combat missions or campaigns.

 

Just don't fly near mountains. :)

[Eldur]

I wish he could just hold altitude and heading... FFB user here

[stuart666]

Altogether now,

 

 

'WATCH THE MOUNTAINS!' :D

[shagrat]

Yes, that is because calling Iceman an AI in fact is a bit misleading. It is better to look at him more like - if I may say a bit jokingly in the hopes that swither won't rip my head off - a "glorified autopilot". :)

I agree that Iceman can't do complex stuff, but I would love the simple feature, of Iceman keeping the AUTOPILOT orbit I just set, before jumping into the back seat, until ordered otherwise. Currently, when I have set an orbit in the pilot seat, activated ALT hold and switch to the RIO seat, Iceman, the autopilot, deactivates the real autopilot and flies a straight course away from the target.

This isn't very nice if you want to employ LANTIRN and search for a target. It would not require any "changes" to Iceman, I guess just a check if autopilot is activated and have Iceman take over only after being ordered to change course etc. or if autopilot is off when switching seats.

You won't even need an "orbit" option. The pilot sets up the orbit as usual and goes hands off. Switch to the backseat and do stuff, switch back to pilot seat and take control...

[clanitho]

I agree that Iceman can't do complex stuff, but I would love the simple feature, of Iceman keeping the AUTOPILOT orbit I just set, before jumping into the back seat, until ordered otherwise. Currently, when I have set an orbit in the pilot seat, activated ALT hold and switch to the RIO seat, Iceman, the autopilot, deactivates the real autopilot and flies a straight course away from the target.

This isn't very nice if you want to employ LANTIRN and search for a target. It would not require any "changes" to Iceman, I guess just a check if autopilot is activated and have Iceman take over only after being ordered to change course etc. or if autopilot is off when switching seats.

You won't even need an "orbit" option. The pilot sets up the orbit as usual and goes hands off. Switch to the backseat and do stuff, switch back to pilot seat and take control...

 

 

+1

[draconus]

The pilot sets up the orbit as usual and goes hands off. Switch to the backseat and do stuff, switch back to pilot seat and take control...

Yes, I don't need more features or smarter Iceman - just a possibility of him not disturbing. Currently he messes with throttle and trim which makes him more annoying than helpful.

[Raubritter]

I wish he could just hold altitude and heading... FFB user here

 

+1. Also autopilot with FFB not work :(

[IronMike]

I agree that Iceman can't do complex stuff, but I would love the simple feature, of Iceman keeping the AUTOPILOT orbit I just set, before jumping into the back seat, until ordered otherwise. Currently, when I have set an orbit in the pilot seat, activated ALT hold and switch to the RIO seat, Iceman, the autopilot, deactivates the real autopilot and flies a straight course away from the target.

This isn't very nice if you want to employ LANTIRN and search for a target. It would not require any "changes" to Iceman, I guess just a check if autopilot is activated and have Iceman take over only after being ordered to change course etc. or if autopilot is off when switching seats.

You won't even need an "orbit" option. The pilot sets up the orbit as usual and goes hands off. Switch to the backseat and do stuff, switch back to pilot seat and take control...

 

 

Unfortunately it would require a lot of changes to facilitate that. It sounds very simple and I, myself, was under the impression that him just keeping the AP settings from the human pilot would be a simple fix, but it really isn't. Like mentioned above this would already mean to start creating an actual AI for him, so the best we will be able to do is to provide at some point a very simple and independent orbit function for him, where you will most likely be able to set the radius only by regulating his speed. Again, our apologies for that, but like mentioned, the effort to make him any "smarter" than he is, is outside of the boundaries that we can devote to him. Sorry to disappoint you guys in this regard, but please keep in mind that Iceman was not an intended feature and is just a very simple bonus to facilitate RIO seat occupation in Singleplayer at all. Thank you for understanding.

 

As for the comment on FFB autopilot: did you guys mean that AP with FFB does not work while you are in the front seat? This would be a bug or due to FFB still being WIP in parts.

[Ramsay]

As for the comment on FFB autopilot: did you guys mean that AP with FFB does not work while you are in the front seat? This would be a bug or due to FFB still being WIP in parts.

 

Yes, it seems FFB related.

 

Disabling FFB in DCS and using SimFFB to provide a center force, I could engage both Autopilot Attitude/Altitude hold and/or engage ACLS auto landing in SP (I haven't tested in 2.5.4.30386).

 

AFAIK it broke when FFB trim center adjustment was added to the initial F-14B stick centering and buffet FFB FX

[IronMike]

Yes, it seems FFB related.

 

Disabling FFB in DCS and using SimFFB to provide a center force, I could engage both Autopilot Attitude/Altitude hold and/or engage ACLS auto landing in SP (I haven't tested in 2.5.4.30386).

 

AFAIK it broke when FFB trim center adjustment was added to the initial F-14B stick centering and buffet FFB FX

 

 

Ok, thank you very much for the report, I forwarded it to Akodonell so that he can take a look.

[Raubritter]

.....

AFAIK it broke when FFB trim center adjustment was added to the initial F-14B stick centering and buffet FFB FX

 

Ok, thank you very much for the report, I forwarded it to Akodonell so that he can take a look.

 

Yes, it is.

FFB trim center adjustment to the initial stick centering - "true and good" function, but it breaks autopilot.

Autopilot can only be activated when the stick is in the center of the axes (overlay RCtrl+Enter) . With FFB enabled, you need to trim the stick for horizontal flight, but its position out this center of the axes - autopilot cannot be enabled

Edited May 17, 2019 by Hummel

[fat creason]

Looking into a solution for FFB and engaging AP right now...

[Raubritter]

Looking into a solution for FFB and engaging AP right now...

 

THX! :thumbup:

[fat creason]

Just tested my fix, should in the next patch. You can now engage AP as long as the FFB stick is at the trim (zero applied force) point.

[shagrat]

Unfortunately it would require a lot of changes to facilitate that. It sounds very simple and I, myself, was under the impression that him just keeping the AP settings from the human pilot would be a simple fix, but it really isn't. Like mentioned above this would already mean to start creating an actual AI for him, so the best we will be able to do is to provide at some point a very simple and independent orbit function for him, where you will most likely be able to set the radius only by regulating his speed. Again, our apologies for that, but like mentioned, the effort to make him any "smarter" than he is, is outside of the boundaries that we can devote to him. Sorry to disappoint you guys in this regard, but please keep in mind that Iceman was not an intended feature and is just a very simple bonus to facilitate RIO seat occupation in Singleplayer at all. Thank you for understanding.

 

 

 

As for the comment on FFB autopilot: did you guys mean that AP with FFB does not work while you are in the front seat? This would be a bug or due to FFB still being WIP in parts.

We may think of different approaches here. The autopilot already holds a perfect orbit. Now, if I press "2" to switch seats, there will be some sort of activation for "Iceman" triggered and he "takes control", correct?

So if we check "Autopilot active and altitude hold engaged = true then do not engage Iceman" that would, already do the trick.

Icing on the cake, would be to have any menu action for Iceman activating him, later. But I would have no problem, if I would need to switch back to pilot, deactivate Autopilot before, being able to use Iceman.

There may be other factors I am not aware of, but I want to make sure you have not misunderstood this potential solution. :)

[IronMike]

We may think of different approaches here. The autopilot already holds a perfect orbit. Now, if I press "2" to switch seats, there will be some sort of activation for "Iceman" triggered and he "takes control", correct?

So if we check "Autopilot active and altitude hold engaged = true then do not engage Iceman" that would, already do the trick.

Icing on the cake, would be to have any menu action for Iceman activating him, later. But I would have no problem, if I would need to switch back to pilot, deactivate Autopilot before, being able to use Iceman.

There may be other factors I am not aware of, but I want to make sure you have not misunderstood this potential solution. :)

 

 

Sorry to be a naysayer, but that would in return mean a lot of messing around with how multiseat works and would still mean a lot of coding for Iceman to make it compatible (engaging and disengaging him would mean a lot of time being spent on him which we just dont have). The switching back and forth also would not be an elegant solution. It is not like we did not think about many many possibilities for Iceman or would not like him to be able to do more. But time for coding/ development is a very limited ressource and even solutions that appear as simple as that, can take up a lot of time allocated to other issues. We discussed the AP being kept over for the back seat extensively in house, and ultimately decided that we cannot do it. Really sorry about that, we hate to disappoint you guys, we really do.

 

That said, nothing is set in stone. Who knows, maybe at the end, when everything else is done, we might revisit parts of Iceman, but in the meantime the best we will do most likely will be a simple orbit and fly to waypoint (also no promise at this point). For the time being please do consider Iceman feature complete.

[shagrat]

Ok. Understood. Can't be helped. :)

[clanitho]

"the best we will do most likely will be a simple orbit and fly to waypoint "

 

Yes, we need that !

[DarkStar79]

why cant you enable to switch to RIO Seat in multiplayer?I cant see any harm in that?

[Naquaii]

why cant you enable to switch to RIO Seat in multiplayer?I cant see any harm in that?

 

That's out of our control unfortunately, just not possible currently in DCS multicrew in multiplayer.