Valve Index Hands On

[remi]

Acknowledging that the VR experience is subjective , and then accusing others of lying , and being cultist . Irrational and ill-founded opinions are of no value to me - blocked .

 

Case in point:

 

Saying that VR cockpits are easily readable is a subjective assessment.

 

I bought into that.

 

Turns out, they were lying about being able to read the cockpit instruments easily.

[Baldrick33]

I think VR is something that once you get it, it can be hard to understand why others might not. Just like we get combat flight sims or racing sims and invest a serious chunk of change into them. Some might think that is crazy!

 

 

Even with a DK2 getting "in" a car or plane added a whole new dimension to simulations because as corny as it sounds you are in the vehicle. Perhaps rather than just like being in a plane it should be just like being in a simulation of a plane, because graphically it is scarcely photo realistic.

 

 

Much like how graphics have evolved on monitors (the first PC sims I played were in glorious 320x200) VR is evolving to the point we can read instruments and have clarity beginning to approach modest monitor quality. Hardly 4k level but IMHO good enough given the benefits of being able to naturally look around.

 

 

Opinions will vary but they are enthusiast opinions and not lies in my view

[nrosko]

I did research it, but VR is subjective, and the experiences of users is important in the overall consideration.

 

The unfortunate thing is the cultist echo-chamber here keeps extolling the virtues of current gen VR, however my actual experience shows that they were clearly lying, and still fall-back on the tiresome "it feels like you're in the cockpit!" Yeah, it feels like you're legally-blind in a cockpit with diminished combat effectiveness.

 

Frankly, they need to tone down their evangelism for an expensive device which does not deliver on their description.

 

VR enthusiasts are not going to stop be enthusiastic about VR any less than we are going to be enthusiastic about DCS or anything else we enjoy.

But let's not pretend that we are not critical of it.

 

Where were you when they announced the index & everybody was moaning because it was lower resolution than everybody expected? where were you when people moan about non of this next gen having foveated rendering. There is endless begging for higher specs in vr forums.

There are countless posts showing that the current gen PPD is along way from even a 1080 PPD on a monitor.

If you don't get vr & why people put up with less sharpness you are just not going to get it simple as that. Most people do though.

[nrosko]

Case in point:

 

Saying that VR cockpits are easily readable is a subjective assessment.

 

I bought into that.

 

Turns out, they were lying about being able to read the cockpit instruments easily.

 

It depends on how much pixel density you add & also which cockpit some are much easier than others.

[Johnny Dioxin]

Guys, come on - I can't believe you are still arguing with this guy. Ignore is a very useful function ;)

 

Don't get baited.

[etherbattx]

why fly when you can sit in the forums and argue?

 

lol

[FiringPin]

It's not to say there aren't other uses for VR. I was playing Google Earth VR and had a great time. I'll probably play some horror games in VR. However, I'm not going to fool myself into thinking VR is the end all be all in DCS.

 

 

The VR mentality here is cultist.

 

CLEARLY don't know what you're talking about. sad.......

[Secoda]

My PC monitor is a Samsung QLED 4K 82" TV/monitor I have in a home theater and it is pretty darn clear with very good qualities (low latency) for sims and gaming. I equate using the Reverb to looking at a 1080P monitor from a few feet away. It's very clear and close to sitting in the airplane. Not as good as the 4K Quantum dots of the $4K Samsung TV but as good as an HD monitor. I would try a Reverb before I would commit to a Valve Index if you can if clarity is important to you like it is to me for a sitting flight sim. (Sebastian from MRTV is not a DCS player and doesn't quite realize how critical clarity is in the sim IMO. I have followed him a long time) I guessing in about two years we will see the VR headsets quadruple in resolution since the 8K standards are already set.

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by Secoda

[Svsmokey]

So , another question has been raised regarding my pursuit of the Index . Of course the controllers are not needed to fly in DCS . However , i would like to know if controllers are required to set it up ? How about changing steam vr settings ? Can i use the monitor mirror and a mouse , as i can with the Oculus software ?

[Baldrick33]

So , another question has been raised regarding my pursuit of the Index . Of course the controllers are not needed to fly in DCS . However , i would like to know if controllers are required to set it up ? How about changing steam vr settings ? Can i use the monitor mirror and a mouse , as i can with the Oculus software ?

That is my understanding, people are using the Index for sim racing without ordering controllers and using a single base station.

[Svsmokey]

That is my understanding, people are using the Index for sim racing without ordering controllers and using a single base station.

 

Thanks . I think it was Voodoode that said you use a controller trigger to set the Guardian , which raised a red flag . I plan on purchasing only the headset and one base station as well .

[Baldrick33]

Thanks . I think it was Voodoode that said you use a controller trigger to set the Guardian , which raised a red flag . I plan on purchasing only the headset and one base station as well .

I think you can just skip that step and set it for seated/standing only rather than room scale.

[Supmua]

For non-room scale setup it’s just mouse clicks. First headset detection, then centering, then height calibration, and that’s it.

[Waxer]

Sebastian from MRTV is not a DCS player and doesn't quite realize how critical clarity is in the sim IMO.

 

Yeah. This is a good point to make. A lot of the VR Youtubers out there are reviewing the headsets from the perspective of the general user. And even when they do views of "How is XYZ headset for DCS?" or "...for Elite Dangerous"... or whatever we've got to take whatever they say with a grain of salt. Clarity REQUIREMENTS for a car racing sim < requirements for Elite < requirements for a simple analogue DCS module like the F-86 < requirements for a technical DCS module like the F/A-18C with all its displays, moving maps and whatnots.

 

We really need a DCS specialist like Spud or Magz to take a look across these products. Either that or teach Sebastian how to fly in DCS.

 

(I was watching a JayzTwoCents video on VR where he played some DCS. To be fair he said he can't fly, but it was painful to watch).

[nrosko]

is it possible to turn reprojection off, i would like to benchmark dcs & get to the bottom of the performance issues. motion smoothing is off.

[Svsmokey]

I think you can just skip that step and set it for seated/standing only rather than room scale.

 

For non-room scale setup it’s just mouse clicks. First headset detection, then centering, then height calibration, and that’s it.

 

Thanks for the answers , gentlemen . It's gonna be the Index then...

Edited July 2, 2019 by Svsmokey

[Mikey74]

[Secoda]

By default it is off. You have to go into the VRSettings file under SteamVR to enable it by uncommenting the re-projection line. Just comment it back out. Some basic re-projection is always on.

 

is it possible to turn reprojection off, i would like to benchmark dcs & get to the bottom of the performance issues. motion smoothing is off.

[nrosko]

Thanks for the answers , gentlemen . It's gonna be the Reverb then...

 

do you plan to use it with your 1070?

[nrosko]

By default it is off. You have to go into the VRSettings file under SteamVR to enable it by uncommenting the re-projection line. Just comment it back out. Some basic re-projection is always on.

 

 

ok well i just don't know why i'm getting such poor frame rates only that it may related to the updated vr performance uncertainty.

[Svsmokey]

do you plan to use it with your 1070?

 

I will limp along with the 1070 until i can afford a 1080ti :) Will keep the Rift if that proves impossible , but Valve recommends a 1070 and even a 1060 as a minimum so....

[Waxer]

 

4 mins into this and the guy's frame rate is jerky as hell. He's only on a 1070 or was that 1070 Ti, so that explains that to some extent.

 

And he already admitting that when he sits back in his seat he can't see much detail on the dials; when he leans forward almost to his desk he can read most dials (kinda, just) but still not all of them...

 

8 mins... I just can't watch it... the frame rate is too choppy.

 

Terrible advert for VR that is for sure.

[Supmua]

Thanks for the answers , gentlemen . It's gonna be the Reverb then...

 

I don't think you'll be happy with the Reverb if you don't upgrade the CPU. With the GTX 1070 Rift S or Index will be a much better choice with much lower resolution. My Index has similar performance to the Vive Pro and I still wasn't happy with my old GTX 1080 with Vive Pro. For me, I'd rather not play in high res if it's compromised by low textures, lack of details, zero shadows, etc. It totally kills the immersion, since the whole thing looks like Sat morning cartoons rather than serious sims.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Supmua

[Secoda]

With the Reverb and hardware below and re-projection off in the F-18 Free Flight map I see low 60's with terrain in view and 90 FPS skyward. I usually see 45 FPS with re-projection on unless no terrain and then 90 looking at sky. (the green indicator goes on)

 

What are you getting? I know one guy running at 60 Hz that claims it is smooth with his card.

 

ok well i just don't know why i'm getting such poor frame rates only that it may related to the updated vr performance uncertainty.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Secoda

[Svsmokey]

I don't think you'll be happy with the Reverb if you don't upgrade the CPU. With the GTX 1070 Rift S or Index will be a much better choice with much lower resolution. My Index has similar performance to the Vive Pro and I still wasn't happy with my old GTX 1080 with Vive Pro. For me, I'd rather not play in high res if it's compromised by low textures, lack of details, zero shadows, etc. It totally kills the immersion, since the whole thing looks like Sat morning cartoons rather than serious sims.

 

Thank you for that ! I mis-spoke . I meant to say it is gonna be the Index for me :) Reverb has never been on my radar . Have since edited the post you referred to . Thanks again...