My wish list? No more planes for now.

[NineLine]

Which is what we are constantly working at, but it has to be a balance of new products and new improvements.

[Kongamato]

Which is what we are constantly working at, but it has to be a balance of new products and new improvements.

 

Well, that's my point. You have right now two HUGE new products in the market, the Hornet and the Viper. Now... let´s stop with new planes and let´s go with improvements and fixing bugs for some time.

[funkyfranky]

As with new modules, maps etc the workload surely is steadily increasing, what about the man power? Are you bringing new guys in or does the same number have just to handle more projects or are withdrawn from other project?

[UrgentSiesta]

They can´t sell you a module and after some time, say to you "you can´t use this module that you purchased for 60, 70, 80 $ when you want, you have to pay X money every month for that". That would be the end of ED and the rise of Falcon BMS, IL-2 or others.

 

I think a lot of users or DCS's products have the same fear: the fear that this business model has too much in common with a Ponzi scheme (not in the sense of a fraud, of course): the planes are the money maker because... who can resists to a new hot jet as the Hornet or the Viper? :joystick:

And they sell most of them during "pre-purchase" phase, so they need more planes to maintain the shop open. That incentivates to develop new planes more than to finish and improve older ones, or to improve DCS world. This is WAY more evident with some third parties (ejem... razbam... ejem... :music_whistling: ) but there are "symptoms" of that "illness" in ED too, IMO.

 

Well, I´m sorry but I´m done with new planes for a while. I´ll buy sceneries, but not going to buy new planes. I´m not going to colaborate with that dynamic of more and more planes in beta state for years, and bugs that will be solved and improvements that will be implemented... in two weeks. :lol:

 

you've given a good reason to avoid subscriptions, but then given the exact reason its one of several good ideas.

 

a subs model needn't have anything to do with the modules, but rather with World upgrades or premiums (like campaign, atc, weather, etc.).

 

and/or a transition period where everyone who has purchased a module gets to keep it, and new modules go on subscription.

 

and/or if you stop subscribing, you keep the module playable, but no further updates, or no MP or whatever...

 

many ways to make it work.

 

the point is not a single monetization idea, but rather ANY one that incentivizes ED to maintain and improve The World itself as much or more than any module. B/c let's face it, The World *is* the game and affects every single module.

Edited June 1, 2019 by coduster
clarity

[UrgentSiesta]

The team members working on aircraft wouldnt be working on things like ATC, the editor and weather, so the two dont get in the way of each other.

 

However, the team that *does* work on non-revenue projects still needs to get paid, and that clearly comes from module revenue. Obviously they are paid, but viewed from out here the progress on The World is agonizingly slow.

 

I personally would rather be able to help prioritize features by directly funding them (through a paid base game, subscription, paid premium features, or whatever works)

 

you folks make money off me because i'm an airframe collector. I love all your modules, own most of them, and will continue to buy most of the new ones.

 

But some (many?) folks only have one or a few. Perhaps b/c they can't afford more, don't want more, or don't want to support what they view as "perpetual EA"

 

And they want (and deserve) to be able to have new features in The World without needing to buy more modules they don't want or need.

 

The problem is that module-only funding skews the metrics/perception used to forecast demand and allocate resources, etc., etc.

Edited June 1, 2019 by coduster

[Sergeant_Hamlet]

Righ now, my wish list for ED aren´t more planes. It´s a better AI. Better ATC. Better tools to make a flightplan with the editor. An editor easier to use for people like me that know nothing about programming. Better weather engine and themes; real-life weather engine FSX style, would be the best.

 

I could not possibly agree more. I would give my right arm for better AI.

[Emmy]

All the modules in the world are useless if the structure in which they’re meant to operate can’t provide an immersive and stable environment.

 

For want of a nail... <shrug>

[Mathius_001]

I think subscription is a valid topic. Would anyone really begrudge say US$50 per year ( $1 per week) if it meant an improvement in overall quality as in it assisted the developers to finish current modules like the hornet. As well as develop new pay for content.

 

The Viper was over $100 AU dollars here, as was the hornet, and is that going to be like the hornet as in 1.5 years or so after release some of its key systems are not yet implemented?

Have got the same issue over on MWO, these games do not sustain themselves forever.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Mathius_001

[Nooch]

To me, the subscription model would clearly not be the best option. Why? Because you will be paying ED money in the hope that you'll find significant improvements in return but actually, nothing will garanty that! What guaranties your money will be spent improving the core sim and won't be invested to make another early access module?

 

I think, and as already stated by someone else here, making the core game payware and making us pay for newer versions would make a ton more sense. We would be paying for known improvements and for something tangible

[Sergeant_Hamlet]

I would be okay with a subscription, as long as it isn’t mandatory. If ED set up a Pateron page or something where you could donate $5 a month to show appreciation and help fund faster development I’d donate gladly, especially if it helps everyone get improvements to the sim that aren’t locked behind a paywall.

 

Maybe give patron-only liveries as a bonus, or a patron discount on all modules while you remain subscribed.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Sergeant_Hamlet

[Nooch]

Maybe give patron-only liveries as a bonus, or a patron discount on all modules while you remain subscribed.

 

If the Patreon is getting you a discount, then how will they be making any significant profit? :music_whistling:

 

Patreon is for content creators, not for video game companies...

[Sergeant_Hamlet]

Patreon is for content creators, not for video game companies...

 

A video game company isn’t a content creator? It was just an example, anyway.

[NineLine]

Well, that's my point. You have right now two HUGE new products in the market, the Hornet and the Viper. Now... let´s stop with new planes and let´s go with improvements and fixing bugs for some time.

 

And you miss my point, no one ever stopped improvements or bug fixing, they might not be fast enough for everyone or get as much of the newsletter, but they are ALWAYS ongoing.

 

I could not possibly agree more. I would give my right arm for better AI.

 

Which improvements have and continue to be made.

 

All the modules in the world are useless if the structure in which they’re meant to operate can’t provide an immersive and stable environment.

 

For want of a nail... <shrug>

 

So DCS is not immersive or stable now? Funny I see a lot of streams and MP events going on all the time, including people from your group.

[Nooch]

A video game company isn’t a content creator? It was just an example, anyway.

 

You're right. My response was poorly worded.

 

I meant ED are not only content creators, with DCS they are the platform. Kinda like if YouTube themselves went to get a Patreon page... that would make no sense. They don't need the services Patreon provides. They already have a way to interact with their community in a direct manner through this very forum and they already have a store for getting payments on a regular basis.

[hansangb]

There's high chances it's not going to happen any time soon. Rewriting everything for Vulkan would be extremely time consuming and the return on investment would not be great for ED...

 

 

Per Wags, the engine was mostly finished and the folks started working on the many shaders. But make no mistake, the future of DCS is VR and many of us are counting on the added benefits that vulkan brings to the table.

 

Like they *had* to adopt the new terrain modules for 2.5 upgrade, vulkan is required for DCS to stay competitive.

[Emmy]

So DCS is not immersive or stable now? Funny I see a lot of streams and MP events going on all the time, including people from your group.

 

We’re easy to see in broad daylight...

[Mizzy]

I know some people is asking to ED for more planes. "Please, ED, the F-111", "Pretty please, the Tornado", "No, ED, the Su-24, Su-17, Mig-17, Yak-3, Mirage, AMX, Eurofighter, Super Sabre, B-1, DC-3..." And I suppose that new planes are the "money maker" of ED, specially during pre-purchase campaing... But I think it´s time to stop for a while and centering the efforts of ED's people in finishing and improving what already is done in DCS.

 

In my case, I don't want or going to buy more planes. I already have at least 4 great planes that I don´t fly simply because I don´t have the time to study the manuals. It was 5, but after the "Hawk affaire"... You know. :( I think I´m not the only one in that situation, with several cool planes in the waiting list :music_whistling:

 

As much I would like a ride in the fabulous Tomcat, the Hornet or the Viper, I´m not going to buy them soon. I know that if I buy them, I´m going to fly them a couple of times "bozo style" without knowing to use 90% of the systems of the planes, and then would relegate them until I have the time to properly learn to fly them... and that could be years.

 

Righ now, my wish list for ED aren´t more planes. It´s a better AI. Better ATC. Better tools to make a flightplan with the editor. An editor easier to use for people like me that know nothing about programming. Better weather engine and themes; real-life weather engine FSX style, would be the best. I want a simulator and planes as free as bugs as posible. And all the planes already done, finished at 100%.

 

I´m going to buy new sceneries though. If you have a plane, you want places to fly it, and it´s boring to fly always the same places. But no more planes at least for a couple or three years, even if they are the hottest, coolest jets, like the Hornet or the Viper.

 

Exactly 'your' statement ..it's YOUR wishlist, not mine :)

 

Mizzy

[Sheriff BurneR]

+1 No more demo planes in DCS. First finish the others. ;)

[JagHond]

Exactly.

I do agree on this last proposal, even if, truth to be told, all the other interesting opinions here have their own point.

In my humble opinion, I can't find why would be a major issue also releasing more interesting planes, the list about is so long. ;)

 

With best regards.

[Kongamato]

Exactly 'your' statement ..it's YOUR wishlist, not mine :)

 

Mizzy

 

Yeah. That´s why I titled this thread "My wish list" and not "Mizzy's wish list".

[Kongamato]

And you miss my point, no one ever stopped improvements or bug fixing, they might not be fast enough for everyone or get as much of the newsletter, but they are ALWAYS ongoing.

 

 

 

Which improvements have and continue to be made.

 

 

 

So DCS is not immersive or stable now? Funny I see a lot of streams and MP events going on all the time, including people from your group.

 

Nobody want to start a discussion with the community manager of ED and nobody said DCS is not immersive or stable. Right now, ED's productos are the most expensive software that I have in my PC. Not only that: I have in my bookshelves the CDs of Flanker 2 and Lock On. I wouldn´t spend so much money in ED´s products if DCS were not immersive or stable. And I know there are improvements and bug fixing, I´m suscribed to the newsletters.

 

BUT, there are important bugs that exist in DCS for way more time that the famous "two weeks" that already are a meme for the sim community, and there are important improvements that have been being asked by the community for way more that those two weeks and have been promised by ED since way more time that those two weeks. Better ATC, better AI, better weather, better visibility, specific bugs and improvements for specific planes...

 

My point is: righ now, I don´t care about new planes. It´s not my priority as customer of ED. I want the old ones bug-free (as much bug-free as possible, obviously) and 100% finished, I want DCS World bug free and improved, and then, I will buy new planes.

[Kongamato]

you've given a good reason to avoid subscriptions, but then given the exact reason its one of several good ideas.

 

a subs model needn't have anything to do with the modules, but rather with World upgrades or premiums (like campaign, atc, weather, etc.).

 

and/or a transition period where everyone who has purchased a module gets to keep it, and new modules go on subscription.

 

and/or if you stop subscribing, you keep the module playable, but no further updates, or no MP or whatever...

 

many ways to make it work.

 

the point is not a single monetization idea, but rather ANY one that incentivizes ED to maintain and improve The World itself as much or more than any module. B/c let's face it, The World *is* the game and affects every single module.

 

Suscriptions would kill ED. As simple as that. Maybe it would be different if DCS World were a model of business based in suscriptions since day one, but, as someone said, there would be riots if ED changes the model of business now to introduce suscriptions.

 

What makes sense (and is already happening) is to make payware certain important improvements. For example, the GNS 430 is included for free in other simulators as FSX, P3D and Xplane, but is a payware module in DCS. Or the pack of WWII objects and vehicles, that are included by default in sims as IL-2, for examplo. And it´s OK for me. It´s only a few bucks. As long as the price is not abusive, I can pay a few buck for important new features if that helps ED. For example, I would pay for a new weather engine based in real-world real-time data, as the one by default in FSX. Or for an hipotetical totally new version of the Editor more powerful and easy to use. But I would not pay, obviously, for bug-fixing, better AI or visibility or for a new skin for a plane, or a new weapon or sensor. That would be abussive IMO.

[nighthawk2174]

Nobody want to start a discussion with the community manager of ED and nobody said DCS is not immersive or stable. Right now, ED's productos are the most expensive software that I have in my PC. Not only that: I have in my bookshelves the CDs of Flanker 2 and Lock On. I wouldn´t spend so much money in ED´s products if DCS were not immersive or stable. And I know there are improvements and bug fixing, I´m suscribed to the newsletters.

 

BUT, there are important bugs that exist in DCS for way more time that the famous "two weeks" that already are a meme for the sim community, and there are important improvements that have been being asked by the community for way more that those two weeks and have been promised by ED since way more time that those two weeks. Better ATC, better AI, better weather, better visibility, specific bugs and improvements for specific planes...

 

My point is: righ now, I don´t care about new planes. It´s not my priority as customer of ED. I want the old ones bug-free (as much bug-free as possible, obviously) and 100% finished, I want DCS World bug free and improved, and then, I will buy new planes.

 

+1 This is a growing view among the people I fly with just about all of them stopping buying new products at the F14 until there are improvements to the base game.

[Space Cadet]

I know some people is asking to ED for more planes. "Please, ED, the F-111", "Pretty please, the Tornado", "No, ED, the Su-24, Su-17, Mig-17, Yak-3, Mirage, AMX, Eurofighter, Super Sabre, B-1, DC-3..." And I suppose that new planes are the "money maker" of ED, specially during pre-purchase campaing... But I think it´s time to stop for a while and centering the efforts of ED's people in finishing and improving what already is done in DCS.

 

In my case, I don't want or going to buy more planes. I already have at least 4 great planes that I don´t fly simply because I don´t have the time to study the manuals. It was 5, but after the "Hawk affaire"... You know. :( I think I´m not the only one in that situation, with several cool planes in the waiting list :music_whistling:

 

As much I would like a ride in the fabulous Tomcat, the Hornet or the Viper, I´m not going to buy them soon. I know that if I buy them, I´m going to fly them a couple of times "bozo style" without knowing to use 90% of the systems of the planes, and then would relegate them until I have the time to properly learn to fly them... and that could be years.

 

Righ now, my wish list for ED aren´t more planes. It´s a better AI. Better ATC. Better tools to make a flightplan with the editor. An editor easier to use for people like me that know nothing about programming. Better weather engine and themes; real-life weather engine FSX style, would be the best. I want a simulator and planes as free as bugs as posible. And all the planes already done, finished at 100%.

 

I´m going to buy new sceneries though. If you have a plane, you want places to fly it, and it´s boring to fly always the same places. But no more planes at least for a couple or three years, even if they are the hottest, coolest jets, like the Hornet or the Viper.

+1 Thank you sir, well presented points that I feel are representative of many discussions amongst the people within the groups I fly.

It’s very pleasing to hear DCS are working on squashing bugs and improving the base functionality but like others, I’ll be holding off on purchasing new modules until these updates are in place, proven and well established.

Personally, I’m not against paying for updates or increased functionality, provided it’s actually complete and fully tested before release.

[Silver_Dragon]

BUT, there are important bugs that exist in DCS for way more time that the famous "two weeks" that already are a meme for the sim community, and there are important improvements that have been being asked by the community for way more that those two weeks and have been promised by ED since way more time that those two weeks. Better ATC, better AI, better weather, better visibility, specific bugs and improvements for specific planes...

 

ED has not "promise" nothing, as Wags and Nineline has talk over and over, only has plans and no write in stone.