Sluggish controls

[fullcoupe]

I am using the Warthog HOTAS - default settings and axis tuning. Saturation for both pitch/roll axis is 100, deadzone 3, no curvature.

 

I find it challenging to do any kind of aggressive maneuvering, and fine adjustments require a lot of input. I can't snap roll or do a quick/tight turn like I can with the Hornet. I realize this may be due to the force-sensing stick...but I don't physically have a force-sensing stick, and I can't increase the saturation any higher...

 

It is extremely noticeable for me when on final with gear down, I can go full aft stick (airspeed 190ish) and the thing moves like molasses. Same with forward stick.

 

Is anyone else noticing the same thing?

[sze5003]

Yea I notice this too. I'm using a vkb stick though. The mcg pro desktop version. I never set any custom curves or saturation for any of my modules either.

 

Did the first taxi and take off training today and I also was at 180-190 on the runway because I was used to so slightly barely moving my stick and taking off but in the viper I really have to pull on it to get it off the ground. Roll is the same, slow response that requires more input. I just use rudder at the same time as I roll to make it a bit easier.

[Deano87]

With the gear down (and the AR Door open as well) the FLCS uses a different mode to make the controls less sensitive and easier to fly smoothly, so it should feel different on approach.

 

I've flown the DCS viper with both my Warthog and FSSB and have no issue with the responsiveness of the jet. if it feels sluggish it might be because you're flying it too slowly, they Viper is designed to be flown a good deal faster in combat than the Hornet. Keep the speed around 350 knots and it should feel pretty responsive.

[sze5003]

With the gear down (and the AR Door open as well) the FLCS uses a different mode to make the controls less sensitive and easier to fly smoothly, so it should feel different on approach.

 

I've flown the DCS viper with both my Warthog and FSSB and have no issue with the responsiveness of the jet. if it feels sluggish it might be because you're flying it too slowly, they Viper is designed to be flown a good deal faster in combat than the Hornet. Keep the speed around 350 knots and it should feel pretty responsive.

Could be true but I think at one point I was going around 4-500 knots and the slowness I felt was just rolling and banking felt like I had to push my stick more over to get it to bank whereas other modules I own I barely touch my mcg grip and the jet immediately moves.

 

I recalibrated in vkb dev config and reset my axis commands to see if I notice anything different tomorrow.

Edited October 4, 2019 by sze5003

[Scofflaw]

Try setting stores category to I instead of III

[Eaglewings]

I am trying to do aerial refuel with the viper and the responsiveness of the roll and pitch is obviously dulled out. The FM and the force-sensing stick thing in the Viper is a whole new control I would have to learn. The likes of Hornet and Tomcat are remarkably nimble and apt to control.

[Emmy]

Doesn’t the jet’s software “dumb down” control inputs during AAR as well?

 

Thought I read that somewhere in the reams of digits that have been flying around over the last two weeks...

[Emmy]

XXX

Edited October 10, 2019 by Emmy
Duplicate Post

[nawarren]

Hi all,

 

AAR is fine, but with the gear down I have trouble flying circuits, the response seems way too slow, even at over 200kts I really struggle lining up for landings, seem to need a lot more airspace than in real life. I have to plan the turns way in advance. or I will overshoot due to slow roll and pitch responce. FYI I am in config 1. With gear up all is fine. I now lower gear much later when on finals or lined up with runway. Hope this gets fixed.

[Eaglewings]

Manipulated my CAT settings and it did improve my control. For the first time ever in a Viper, I was able to control the aircraft hook up to the boom and multiple times and got gas load from 7000 to 10000. Did not have to struggle as much as I did in the AAR for the Hornet which was literally for months.

Taking cognizance of the CAT setting does change how nimble the controls input takes effect at various state.

 

Any ideas on what load to change from cat 1 to lll?

Edited October 11, 2019 by Eaglewings

[Chapa]

I am using the Warthog HOTAS - default settings and axis tuning. Saturation for both pitch/roll axis is 100, deadzone 3, no curvature.

 

I find it challenging to do any kind of aggressive maneuvering, and fine adjustments require a lot of input. I can't snap roll or do a quick/tight turn like I can with the Hornet. I realize this may be due to the force-sensing stick...but I don't physically have a force-sensing stick, and I can't increase the saturation any higher...

 

It is extremely noticeable for me when on final with gear down, I can go full aft stick (airspeed 190ish) and the thing moves like molasses. Same with forward stick.

 

Is anyone else noticing the same thing?

 

Same for me with a Virpil WarBRD base and TM F18 stick. I have to put negative curve or be very agressive on the stick to roll fast. Maybe its right because the special pression stick of the F16. On some posts, people complain about large deadzone but I checked and it is not the case because there are some very light output from a small stick deflection. But I have the feeling that an intermediate curve map the virtual deflection of the stick to a pression level. This pression level is then translated to aileron movement with the fly by wire in the middle and some delay time constant.

 

It could make sense and explain why we have to be really agressive on the stick and the very different feeling from other jets. Personnaly I prefer without negative curve and live with the différence until it is confirmed as normal or a bug

Edited October 11, 2019 by Chapa

[Chapa]

If I am right with this intermediate curve that map the virtual deflection of the stick to a pression level, people with longer stick and/or extension will have stronger sluggish feeling than people with shorter sticks.

 

To solve the issue but keeping this special pression feeling of the F16, a Special setting would be requiered: Max real roll deflection, max real pitch deflection (in cm or inch). With these information, the curve could be adapted to give to every people the same pression level for the same real deflection, so the same feeling.

 

Of course if my supposition is right and I let you judge about the probability :)

Edited October 11, 2019 by Chapa

[bradleyjs]

I have the A-10C HOTAS systems and it is very sluggish. I modified the Curve to 30 on both X/Y Axis’. It just mad it worse, so I put it back to the default settings.

 

When I was doing my first real testing yesterday (it takes lots of time to reprogram the entire HOTAS system to something comparable to the Cougar HOTAS [which I gave to my oldest son years ago and wishing I had back....]) thats when I noted the sluggishness and was just assuming it’s attributed to being super-Alpha’ish Early Access issue.

 

So, I will just make due with it and see if the flight modeling changes. My HOTAS works perfectly with A-10C and the F/A-18C.

[Donut]

Any ideas on what load to change from cat 1 to lll?

 

CAT I is for air to air loadouts only, no drop tanks

 

CAT III is with drop tanks and/or air to ground weapons.

[Chapa]

I have the A-10C HOTAS systems and it is very sluggish. I modified the Curve to 30 on both X/Y Axis’. It just mad it worse, so I put it back to the default settings.

 

When I was doing my first real testing yesterday (it takes lots of time to reprogram the entire HOTAS system to something comparable to the Cougar HOTAS [which I gave to my oldest son years ago and wishing I had back....]) thats when I noted the sluggishness and was just assuming it’s attributed to being super-Alpha’ish Early Access issue.

 

So, I will just make due with it and see if the flight modeling changes. My HOTAS works perfectly with A-10C and the F/A-18C.

 

With +30 curve for sure. Try with negative curve instead.

[Manhorne]

I have found it hard to be precise with the controls for AAR....It wants to pitch and roll ever so slightly and even with small inputs it wont stay steady. I have been able to control the pitch but the roll I have had no luck. Been playing with the curves but as of yet have not found a setting that works for me controlling the roll tendency. I have no problems with the Hornet or Tomcat doing AAR but this plane is being difficult. Just going to keep at it i suppose until I figure it out...

[Eaglewings]

CAT I is for air to air loadouts only, no drop tanks

 

 

 

CAT III is with drop tanks and/or air to ground weapons.

Thanks.

[Pikey]

The aircraft module seems to modify the input dynamically but I am not sure this is working as well as it could.

 

 

To make small corrections during AAR, I have to put my WH stick in massive deflections, very close to the gimbals, which feels wrong given the real stick doesn't move much.

 

 

I ended up with changing the roll axis on my WH to:

 

 

70 saturation (to stop the huge swings)

-30 curves (to get more of a reaction sooner)

 

 

Subjectively, it felt better, at least closer to an equivalent aircraft.

 

 

I don't see why the real world force sensing stick, even with the low speed accuracy, should require double the stick movement of an F-18C flight model, i'm literally waving my stick around everywhere to refuel, which feels ... counter intuitive.

 

 

I could refuel, it should be easier, but as a benchmark against other modules, the controls of the F-16 are the opposite of light, the aircraft feels like a brick, especially low speed.

[bbrz]

The 50% reduced travel does feel rather strange in the DCS F-16. When I wrote a new FM for the P3D F-16, cutting the flight control travel in half, the effect was much less dramatic.

 

I have the impression that the aircraft response to control inputs at low speed is presently too low in the DCS F-16.

 

If you remember flight 0 of the F-16, the pilot experienced serious PIOs due to the high roll rate, even at the very low airspeed.

 

Flying the DCS F-16 with the gear up < 150kts definitely doesn't exactly provoke PIOs due to the high roll rate and responsiveness. ;)

 

Unfortunately I'm not at home to be able to do more tests within the next few days but I'll do that ASAP.

[Lange_666]

There is definally something weird with the F-16's controls.

I noticed this before already but today i was doing some overhead landings (for maybe making a video for WAGS "http://=https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=252775]Show Me Your Landings".

 

 

Mission Instant Action: Landing

Terrain: Nevada

 

 

On my first attempt, so the first time DCS was run after starting the computer, the F-16 felt really really heavy on the controls, it just turned like a truck. Cat setting: I (<-- didn't touch that).

 

 

On my second attempt, the control had changed back to normal, the response was quick like expected. Cat setting: again I (didn't touch is either this time).

 

 

Thirth attempt, this time i did shut down DCS and started it back up, the controls were just like in the second attempt, normal quick response.

 

 

 

I noticed the same already before, not just now on the Landing mission and this time it was after starting my computer but that doesn't have to be, just stopping and starting a mission can make a difference.

[Lange_666]

Seems to happen in the first flight when something is changed in the axis setup...

Edited October 19, 2019 by Lange_666

[DeMonteur]

Manipulated my CAT settings and it did improve my control. For the first time ever in a Viper, I was able to control the aircraft hook up to the boom and multiple times and got gas load from 7000 to 10000. Did not have to struggle as much as I did in the AAR for the Hornet which was literally for months.

Taking cognizance of the CAT setting does change how nimble the controls input takes effect at various state.

 

Any ideas on what load to change from cat 1 to lll?

 

 

With fuel tanks or bombs loaded.