New Clouds Discussion

[BIGNEWY]

1 minute ago, Mizzy said:

Where ? I don't know where patch status is ! do you have a link ?

 

Here Mizzy 

 

 

thanks

[Lurker]

7th of April. One week delay. I can live with that. 

[falcon_120]

Hello everybody,

 

We are close to DCS world 2.7 and the introduction of the new clouds. Apart from looking gorgeous I read somewhere they will be sync in MP and more important, they should block ir/optic weapons line of sight.

 

So I was wondering, which short range SAMs should be affected and unable to engage through clouds? Tunguskas? HQ7?

 

Also what about ir missiles like the R27et?

 

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

 

 

[Lurker]

11 hours ago, falcon_120 said:

 

Hello everybody,

 

We are close to DCS world 2.7 and the introduction of the new clouds. Apart from looking gorgeous I read somewhere they will be sync in MP and more important, they should block ir/optic weapons line of sight.

 

So I was wondering, which short range SAMs should be affected and unable to engage through clouds? Tunguskas? HQ7?

 

Also what about ir missiles like the R27et?

 

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

I think that's something that we will just have to wait and see. I think it's probably something that will maybe have to get tweaked with time. Hopefully it's not just a 0 or 1 value with any little puff of cloud. For example a jet going full burner through a "smallish" cloud should probably have a much higher heat signature than a jet going through a big messy thunderstorm. 

[Hoirtel]

ED - Quick questions... If the new clouds are synced in MP and going to be delivered in presets (at first), will that mean that for any given cloud preset used on a map it will always be the same? or will it be a random generation? For example if there is a "scattered clouds" pre-set (a guess on my part) then any time that is used by anyone SP or MP for say the PG map then the same shape clouds will be in the same places every single time? Or will the actual pattern vary each time the mission is loaded. Also will the presets change during the mission time or will they be fixed? Just interested to know. 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Hoirtel

[unknown]

On 3/24/2021 at 10:50 PM, oldmanflan said:

 

In 5-6 years, someone is going to read that and think, "Woah! There was a time when even someone with a beefy setup couldn't read text in the cockpit?!"

I'm already excited to see what future hardware will do for DCS in VR. Just imagine a 4K VR image at consistent 60fps. One can only dream. 

 

I run 1.6 right now, it's not perfect but quite good in most cases. Higher resolution combined with higher fps would ofcourse always be better.

 

23 hours ago, Mizzy said:

Yep, I know that the hardware isn't capable of rendering pixel density 2 DCS is not optimised for high resolution in VR yet. It's all for the future hardware what I am after and that is no time soon.

I'm using my Rift S for over 1.5 years now. After the first tests flying in VR there was no way back for ME to TrackIR+monitor(i use 34" 21:9 monitor) flying. For MissionEditor work and quick mission testing yes but flying missions - only in VR for me - despite the limits/flaws it has, for me it's far more superior/imersion.

Edited March 26, 2021 by unknown

[Mizzy]

8 minutes ago, unknown said:

I run 1.6 right now, it's not perfect but quite good in most cases. Higher resolution combined with higher fps would ofcourse always be better.

 

I'm using my Rift S for over 1.5 years now. After the first tests flying in VR there was no way back for ME to TrackIR+monitor(i use 34" 21:9 monitor) flying. For MissionEditor work and quick mission testing yes but flying missions - only in VR for me - despite the limits/flaws it has, for me it's far more superior/imersion.

 

Resolution is in the eye of the beholder  It's not good enough for me personally.

[unknown]

1 minute ago, Mizzy said:

Resolution is in the eye of the beholder  It's not good enough for me personally.

That is true, that's why i said for ME. If it's not good enough for YOU that is OK too! Just wait until high resolution VR is performant/cheap - i have nothing against that too.  

[Hoirtel]

32 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

Resolution is in the eye of the beholder  It's not good enough for me personally.

If you are interested in VR shame you hold yourself back over this. So many others do. Everyone loves the best graphics they can get including us VR users. The resolution is high, very high actually (G2 runs at over 4k) What you may be referring to is that the graphics do not render as "clean" in VR as they are on a monitor. This is true, even with 4k+ however for a few years, its pretty good. So good you don't notice after a few hours.

 

I would love to go back to a high res 2D monitor, but the sense of scale, depth, height and direction aren't there for me yet 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Hoirtel

[Lurker]

4 hours ago, Hoirtel said:

ED - Quick questions... If the new clouds are synced in MP and going to be delivered in presets (at first), will that mean that for any given cloud preset used on a map it will always be the same? or will it be a random generation? For example if there is a "scattered clouds" pre-set (a guess on my part) then any time that is used by anyone SP or MP for say the PG map then the same shape clouds will be in the same places every single time? Or will the actual pattern vary each time the mission is loaded. Also will the presets change during the mission time or will they be fixed? Just interested to know. 

 

 

 

 

Some very good questions. I would hazzard a guess that the preset generates a seed, which is then used in the engine to populate the sky with clouds. This is then synced accross machines which join the multiplayer server. So you have several different presets, like clear sky, light overcast, heavy overcast, thunderstorm, etc. and each time you select a preset it generates a random cloud cover based on the preset. Hopefully this is the way it works, as having the exact same clouds every single time you chose a preset would probably become a bit stale after a while. 

[Hoirtel]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Some very good questions. I would hazzard a guess that the preset generates a seed, which is then used in the engine to populate the sky with clouds. This is then synced accross machines which join the multiplayer server. So you have several different presets, like clear sky, light overcast, heavy overcast, thunderstorm, etc. and each time you select a preset it generates a random cloud cover based on the preset. Hopefully this is the way it works, as having the exact same clouds every single time you chose a preset would probably become a bit stale after a while. 

Yeah I agree. Wonder if they will drift with the wind? 

[Northstar98]

30 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

Yeah I agree. Wonder if they will drift with the wind? 

 

Pretty sure they will, don't the current ones drift with the wind too?

[Hoirtel]

On 3/26/2021 at 5:32 PM, Northstar98 said:

 

Pretty sure they will, don't the current ones drift with the wind too?

Erm.. Not sure actually. They generally disappear after a little while! 

[Northstar98]

25 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

Erm.. Not sure actually. They generally disappear after a little while! 

 

Just did a quick test, seems they actually don't! Which is weird, I swear I remember them drifting.

 

I don't know I must be losing my marbles or something. Anyway, let's hope that the new clouds will drift - at least when we get the new weather system/controls.

[Fri13]

On 3/26/2021 at 4:05 PM, Lurker said:

 

Some very good questions. I would hazzard a guess that the preset generates a seed, which is then used in the engine to populate the sky with clouds. This is then synced accross machines which join the multiplayer server. So you have several different presets, like clear sky, light overcast, heavy overcast, thunderstorm, etc. and each time you select a preset it generates a random cloud cover based on the preset. Hopefully this is the way it works, as having the exact same clouds every single time you chose a preset would probably become a bit stale after a while. 

 

I hope that it is so, with possiblity to randomize the seed to generate different clouds by the preset if wanted. But otherwise it should be so they weather is exactly same each time and can be calculated from the mission start to future how to behave.

 

Otherwise you can't sync across multiplayer, replays and mission loading.

 

You want it to be constant. Like every time you load the mission the weather should look same. 

Every time you play the replay the weather should be same.

Every client should have same clouds.

 

From a mission generation perspective it needs to be to be possible randomize the seed for saving. After that it will again stay always the same at mission start and be generated same way each time.

 

We could have in the editor a setting to tell mission seed be regenerated each time, but the starting one is recorded to replay. Now you can have different weather by template every time you start mission, but replays has always the correct but each replay looks different between play times.

 

 

[Fri13]

25 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

Just did a quick test, seems they actually don't! Which is weird, I swear I remember them drifting.

 

I don't know I must be losing my marbles or something. Anyway, let's hope that the new clouds will drift - at least when we get the new weather system/controls.

Clouds do drift.

And so on the shadows moves too.

 

I have one NTTR mission that is based to shadows movement as it hides or shows the units based do you get them casting shadows or not. 

 

So attack angle is important as flying sun behind you means you don't see shadows as it is behind the unit. But sideways and especially sun behind the target reveals strongest shadow and easy to spot them.

 

And if course when shadows moves as clouds drifts, you need to time the attack based the cloud cover opening that sun get between clouds, as under clouds shadows you don't spot then so easily.

 

And this should get more challenging in future with new weather!

[Northstar98]

Just now, Fri13 said:

Clouds do drift.

 

That's what I thought but I just set up a mission with some hefty (50 knot) winds at 6000 feet and I couldn't see motion, let me get a track for you.

 

 

[Fri13]

3 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

 

That's what I thought but I just set up a mission with some hefty (50 knot) winds at 6000 feet and I couldn't see motion, let me get a track for you.

 

Could it be that clouds doesn't move, but shadows does? As I am certain that shadows does move, but not 100% that clouds does, but it doesn't make sense to have excellent lighting system that doesn't reflect clouds positions for shadow casting....

[Northstar98]

18 minutes ago, Fri13 said:

Could it be that clouds doesn't move, but shadows does? As I am certain that shadows does move, but not 100% that clouds does, but it doesn't make sense to have excellent lighting system that doesn't reflect clouds positions for shadow casting....

 

I tracked the shadows - couldn't see them moving - and this was in 75 knots of wind.

Cloud_Drift_01.trk

[Fri13]

1 minute ago, Northstar98 said:

 

I tracked the shadows - couldn't see them moving - and this was in 75 knots of wind.

Cloud_Drift_01.trk 43.43 kB · 0 downloads

Okay, need to check it once I get to fly in a week... 

[j0nx]

So I’m guessing first quarter release was a fail? Not like they could have stopped work on a number of other projects to get the updated engine out in time I guess. This thing is in dire need of an overhaul and should be priority number 1. 

[Weasel]

So I’m guessing first quarter release was a fail? Not like they could have stopped work on a number of other projects to get the updated engine out in time I guess. This thing is in dire need of an overhaul and should be priority number 1. 

As this is a very big update, bugs and other problems appear in different stages of development. As it was already mentioned in last newsletter, the devs are working overtime to release the update as soon as possible.

[Hoirtel]

On 4/3/2021 at 12:22 PM, j0nx said:

So I’m guessing first quarter release was a fail? Not like they could have stopped work on a number of other projects to get the updated engine out in time I guess. This thing is in dire need of an overhaul and should be priority number 1. 

The engine isn't getting updated until later on as far as the notes say.

[Gryzor]

@Wags: please, any news about this in VR? (in comparison with 2.5.6). I´m a bit worried not keeping 45 fps in reprojection with those awesome clouds (currently I don´t have issues with 2.5.6). My PC 3090, 32GB DDR4 4000 Mhz cas16T, 5900x @ 4950 Mhz (single core boost), and Valve Index (Steam SS at 200%).  Many thanks!!!

Edited April 12, 2021 by Gryzor

[draconus]

You'll find out soon. If it's that bad you'll just revert back. What's the big deal? Oh, yeah, you won't go back when you see the clouds