Typical training flights?

[gulredrel]

Hello,

 

I'm only flying SP offline, creating some scenarios with mission editor.

 

Can someone please tell me, what are typical elements of peacetime training flights for Hornet or F-16 or F-5/T-38?

 

I own Nevada and PG map.

 

Something like:

- practicing high altitude intercept

- or just navigation

- carrier approach / approach and Touch and go on different airbase

 

What would typical loadouts be and how long will those mission last?

 

Thanks

Jens

[GGTharos]

In more or less of a reasonable order, each assuming you've done the ground school for it:

 

Takeoff/landing

Patterns

Contact flying

Aircraft handling characteristics

Formation flying/exercises - fingertip, fighting wing, all the inbeetween stuff and all exercises involving those.

Formation rejoin exercise

Air refueling

Dead reckoning navigation

Fix to fix navigation

Full instrumented navigation

Tactical formations, including some fluid tac form

Basic offensive BFM

Basic defensive BFM

Basic high aspect BFM

... Advanced BFM concepts from here on

Basic intercept/stern conversion and more

BVR concepts - a huge list goes here

 

This is where you start getting into section training, which itself has a whole load of stuff like the above.

 

We're not even doing tactics yet.

[Nealius]

For multirole aircraft, A2G training typically comes before A2A training, starting with the BDU-33 and dumb bombs. At least for USN/USAF from what I've gathered from some podcasts blurbs.

[Notso]

To the OP's question, it sort of depends on what you mean by "training". If you mean a new student to the jet transitioning from pilot training, then there will be a full syllabus that walks you logically through all aspects of the jet's mission - Transition (aircraft handling, performance, pattern work, etc.) Nav & instrument flying, A/A, A/G, and then SAT (where the multi-role is combined into a single mission).

 

If you instead are talking about day to day "training" of an already qualified Sq pilot - its usually dealer's choice and often up to the flight lead's whim of the day - within some constraints of course. It is also driven by the Sq's training requirements. Every pilot has a certain number of events of certain things they must do throughout a year or training cycle as well as maintain certain currencies. For instance, depending on the Sq's mission - a typical pilot may be required to do X number of BFM events, Y number of weapons deliveries, and Z number of multi-role SAT rides to satisfy filling the squares for the quarter/year/training cycle, etc. In addition, they will have specific time frames that they must do so many landings every 45/60/90 days, so many instrument approaches, yada yada yada. It all adds up to a very VERY busy schedule. And then that will intensify even further if a Squadron is doing a workup to a deployment.

 

Another thing that drives what a training mission will look like is the jet configuration that day for the line you are going to fly. For instance, the line you are scheduled against IRL might be an A/A configured jet with CATM missiles and ACTS pods and no tanks. So therefore you're going to likely do an A/A mission which could be anything from vanilla 1v1 BFM to multi-aircraft exercises. Of course you can simulate A/G ordnance deliveries with a clean jet too. If OTOH, you come to fly the next day and your jet is loaded with tanks and Mk-82s, you're not going to go do BFM.

 

As far as training in DCS, I would say it's mostly up to you to build missions that suit what you think you need to work on. Depending on the amount of time you have for each session, you can make it as simple and single focused or as complex as you want. I would recommend starting with a single mission focus such as Defensive or offensive BFM and work up to more complex from there on the A/A side and simple weapon delivery tasks such as Conventional dive bomb and auto deliveries, LGB employment, etc, and then add complexity as you master each skill. I am currently doing offline SP as well, and I personally like to build an end to end mission where I take off, fly to the range or airspace I'm going to flight in do my BFM or bomb deliveries and then fly home, beat up the pattern doing touch and go's and then full stop and taxi back to parking. That way I can get a lot of training out of a single mission and it's more realistic. Later, I've done some more complex missions where I takeoff, hit a tanker, top up, fly to a target, fight my way through a couple of bandits, (hopefully kill them) and then hit a target, fly back to the tanker, and then land. But that's a fairly serious investment in time. There is nothing whatsoever wrong with setting up a simple mission where you are airborne over a target or a bandit spawns right in front of you and you practice that over and over again. That's the beauty of simulation and why the military has invested huge $$ in it to do precisely that very thing.

 

My big frustration with DCS is there are no training missiles where if a bandit kills you, you don't blow up and have to start over. It would be nice to keep going and then be able to go back and review the "tapes" later to see where the shots where and what you did wrong without having to start the game over.

[Notso]

In more or less of a reasonable order, each assuming you've done the ground school for it:

 

Takeoff/landing

Patterns

Contact flying

Aircraft handling characteristics

Formation flying/exercises - fingertip, fighting wing, all the inbeetween stuff and all exercises involving those.

Formation rejoin exercise

Air refueling

Dead reckoning navigation

Fix to fix navigation

Full instrumented navigation

Tactical formations, including some fluid tac form

Basic offensive BFM

Basic defensive BFM

Basic high aspect BFM

... Advanced BFM concepts from here on

Basic intercept/stern conversion and more

BVR concepts - a huge list goes here

 

This is where you start getting into section training, which itself has a whole load of stuff like the above.

 

We're not even doing tactics yet.

 

Yep

[Madgunner]

.My big frustration with DCS is there are no training missiles where if a bandit kills you, you don't blow up and have to start over. It would be nice to keep going and then be able to go back and review the "tapes" later to see where the shots where and what you did wrong without having to start the game over.

 

Perhaps you can use MISSILETRAINER script for this purpose:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=178942

[rrohde]

My big frustration with DCS is there are no training missiles where if a bandit kills you, you don't blow up and have to start over. It would be nice to keep going and then be able to go back and review the "tapes" later to see where the shots where and what you did wrong without having to start the game over.

 

This - very much so. With NTTR, I had really hoped that we would be able to emulate "Red Flag" type scenarios - including the use of training weapons so we can score hits while still flying and continue practicing.

[Anklebiter]

Well you could always set yourself to invincible and pretend that it's training if you are worried about realism cred.

[GGTharos]

My big frustration with DCS is there are no training missiles where if a bandit kills you, you don't blow up and have to start over. It would be nice to keep going and then be able to go back and review the "tapes" later to see where the shots where and what you did wrong without having to start the game over.

 

 

Set yourself to invincible.

[draconus]

Set yourself to invincible.

 

Immersion problem is not with my aircraft (I can restart after mishap) but with killing the other "guys" which are meant to be friendly and suppose to RTB after missions.

[GGTharos]

Set whoever you need to survive to invincible.

[draconus]

Set whoever you need to survive to invincible.

 

Yeah, and make them follow Showtime orders after being hit. Tough life of mission makers.

[Notso]

Immersion problem is not with my aircraft (I can restart after mishap) but with killing the other "guys" which are meant to be friendly and suppose to RTB after missions.

 

It’s actually both. If I set myself to invincible, will I even know if I was “killed”?

[GGTharos]

You can run your defensive tactics and then review.

[Notso]

You can run your defensive tactics and then review.

 

I am assuming you have to install TACVIEW for that, correct?

[GGTharos]

Yes indeed.

[Bimbac]

That's the way of training that most of the modern air forces use in real life. And if it looks weird to other sim pilots, it doesn't matter at all.

 

Invulnerability + Tacview debriefing is a combination we use in our training as well because it's very efficient and time-saving.

[gulredrel]

[...]

 

If you instead are talking about day to day "training" of an already qualified Sq pilot - its usually dealer's choice and often up to the flight lead's whim of the day - within some constraints of course. It is also driven by the Sq's training requirements. Every pilot has a certain number of events of certain things they must do throughout a year or training cycle as well as maintain certain currencies. For instance, depending on the Sq's mission - a typical pilot may be required to do X number of BFM events, Y number of weapons deliveries, and Z number of multi-role SAT rides to satisfy filling the squares for the quarter/year/training cycle, etc. In addition, they will have specific time frames that they must do so many landings every 45/60/90 days, so many instrument approaches, yada yada yada. It all adds up to a very VERY busy schedule. And then that will intensify even further if a Squadron is doing a workup to a deployment.

 

Another thing that drives what a training mission will look like is the jet configuration that day for the line you are going to fly. For instance, the line you are scheduled against IRL might be an A/A configured jet with CATM missiles and ACTS pods and no tanks. So therefore you're going to likely do an A/A mission which could be anything from vanilla 1v1 BFM to multi-aircraft exercises. Of course you can simulate A/G ordnance deliveries with a clean jet too. If OTOH, you come to fly the next day and your jet is loaded with tanks and Mk-82s, you're not going to go do BFM.

 

[...]

My big frustration with DCS is there are no training missiles where if a bandit kills you, you don't blow up and have to start over. It would be nice to keep going and then be able to go back and review the "tapes" later to see where the shots where and what you did wrong without having to start the game over.

 

Thanks, that perfectly sums up what I wanted to know.

So I can put some radio item triggers to spawn different bandits / objects and so on, depending on my mood. ;)

[BlacleyCole]

A training mission would emphasize on one task with a couple of secondary tasks. Ie mission to fly to the range bomb primary target. It could be a command post and the secondary targets might be the sa defensive system and the communications system then return to base. There would be procedures for refueling before and or after the attack and for aa defense then the tasks of startup, taxing, and takeoff getting to cruise altitude then the inGress to the target and egress out from the target return to base, the landing and taxing to parking spot, parking, shutdown etc.

[Tiramisu]

Me after buying a new aircraft: do dogfights with it for hours while neglecting all other aspects of that aircraft. Even in the Viggen. :D