DLSS 2.0 Support

[mhe]

Nvidia have updated their DLSS feature to version 2.0, making it look better, perform better and also make it much easier to implement for developers. It enables better image quality by using AI-driven upsampling, which outperforms higher native-res rendering by quite a margin and often look better at the same time. Performance boosts from 50-80% have been observed in reviews, vastly outperforming the previous DLSS implementation.

 

Especially given the performance issues with VR in DCS, this could be a game-changer should ED choose to implement it. I'd even pay money for that feature in DCS.

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by mhe

[=4c=Nikola]

It's RTX GPU exclusive.

[SharpeXB]

It’s rather a gimmick. I doubt even very well done upscaling can be equal to native resolution.

It’s silly that it’s called “Super Sampling” because it’s not. I guess “Dynamic Learning Upscaling” just doesn’t sound as zippy.

 

VR performance and even 2D performance in DCS tends to be CPU limited so DLSS won’t help in that regard.

[mhe]

It’s rather a gimmick. I doubt even very well done upscaling can be equal to native resolution.

It’s silly that it’s called “Super Sampling” because it’s not. I guess “Dynamic Learning Upscaling” just doesn’t sound as zippy.

 

VR performance and even 2D performance in DCS tends to be CPU limited so DLSS won’t help in that regard.

 

 

 

That does look pretty impressive for a "gimmick" to me. Yes, the first iteration was kinda meh, but the 2.0 version seems to deliver.

 

And yes, it is RTX exclusive so far, but the performance benefit combined with the quality is quite amazing.

 

Being CPU limited is an age old problem that as far as I know isn't even worked on because there is Vulkan in the future at some point, that is when, in 18-24 months?

Edited April 4, 2020 by mhe

[SharpeXB]

That does look pretty impressive for a "gimmick" to me. Yes, the first iteration was kinda meh, but the 2.0 version seems to deliver.

Yeah I’ve seen all that and yes the first version was terrible. Upscaling has been around for a long time in home video. Even when it’s done well it’s not a substitute for the real thing. Especially in 4K where every flaw is visible. No magic processing can create pixels which aren’t there.

 

Look at it this way. Do you see anyone else in the home video industry making the claim that their upscaling TV or disc player will turn a 1080p signal into the exact same quality of 4K. No of course not because such a claim would be rubbish.

Edited April 5, 2020 by SharpeXB

[grammaton_feather]

DLSS is restricted to 2000 series GPU. It will never be implemented on dcs. There's hardware VR acceleration built in to every Nvidia GPU going back to to 900 series. VRworks as featured on a number of vr games brings a big FPS boost. It will never be supported on DCS world.

 

That just leaves us with Vulkan as the only hope of boosting performance.

 

In other words we're not getting anywhere near full performance in VR even on old 900 series GPUs

[BranchPrediction]

Indeed, its an nvidia 20 series and up feature. I doubt ED would put in a lot of effort for a feature if not everyone is going to benefit from it, or atleast when the majority isnt going to benefit. Also dont say that dlss 2.0 delivers better performance AND often looking better. Comon thats BS mate. But i get where ur coming from. Its a nice boost in fps after all.

[Havremonster]

I remember for about 25 years ago, I bought one of the first 3dfx card in the country. Later on I was playing the game EF (eurofighter) 2000. The first version was a DOS game with ofcause a corned graphic. But then someone made a big patch on about 9mb (took all the day to download that time) for to support the 3dfx. That game become a miracle.

But when I talked about 3dfx to friends and even in most data stores, they did not know what I was talking about, because the card was a test ware that a local store had.

But after a half year everybody shold have one.

In the beginning it was only one official game that was supporting it. Microsoft Monster Trucks.

DLSS 2.0 will be the furture for a long time. Just wait and see.

[BranchPrediction]

I actually think otherwise, dlss accumulates info over the span of a few frames, its temporal just like rtx ray tracing, it will use info from the previous frames to reconstruct the next coming frame, ue4 has had temporal upscaling before dlss. This temporal approach just has artifacts, i know most guys like nvidia but there is no other way, it will have artifacts, 1 artifacts is ghosting behind moving images (sometimes in front too) just like taa. I dont think the future will be artifacty upscaling, i think it will be true resoultion without artifacts from upscaling. Like i said earlier taa existed on ue4 before dlss but games that have taa and dlss only get dlss. Why? I think because nvidia and epic (whom love each other) dont allow for taa because that is better for the 20series. But u can sometimes enable taa in the consoles and whatnot haha. Im telling ya nvidia and epic are shady.

[BranchPrediction]

No dlss in dcs tho, the 20 series didnt sell well anyways.

[cellinsky]

Its proprietary tech, so why bother at all. Kind a like physx. If its becomung standart for ALL, better today than tomorrow, I agree...

[Harker]

I'm not against this. Until it's actually implemented in DCS, far more people will have access to GPUs able to run DLSS. It's not like it's going to be added next month, even if development starts soon.

 

And FWIW, I also think that DCS could benefit a lot from incorporating certain real time ray tracing features into DCS, as an option. Ray tracing is not a proprietary technology and if rumors are to be believed (I know, I know), the next iteration of GPUs will offer much better RT performance, making it a viable tech for everyone.

[Havremonster]

At the first DLSS was not good. But with DLSS 2.0 the frames and the qualety get a lot better. But not many games support this. Only a few.

Personall I find it very interesting:

[Leaderface]

Ampere will include DLSS 3.0 and AMD will include one such effect too on its upcoming RDNA2 cards so: The feature will be there to everybody, like antialias, etc.

It´s our only option for VR and dual 4K panels given the actual state of DCS. (And foveated rendering).

[SkateZilla]

Here's the run down *unofficially*

 

GameWorks is not the FPS Super Booster everyone think's it is. Gameworks is nothing more than prebuilt Effects, Instructions, Shaders, Tools, and features for Specific nVidia GPUs, that only work within specific graphics engines. Most of the Shader Level Features and Functions in Gameworks are already done in the Current EDGE Engine, and Hardware Accelerated (By both AMD and nVidia GPUs).

 

Using Game works and more specifically DLSS 2.0, limits that feature to GPUs w/ Tensor Cores (aka RTX, and more specifically 2070s and 2080s),

 

Using Game works by itself is forcing ED to develop AMD and nVidia Versions of their Graphics engine.

 

That's twice the work in terms of product support. it's not ideal, especially when most of the shader and pre-compiled effects and features in game works can be done easily on Vulkan via GPUOpen and work on both AMD and nVidia GPUs. (if ED Wanted too).

 

Even then, there's no evidence that the pre-made effects and tools provided by either Gameworks or GPUOpen would offer better workflow or performance than EDs own in house code.

[Havremonster]

Ok :) I take that as a "no" :)

[PharaohSteve]

I can’t speak to the resources necessary to get this implemented, but the results from DLSS shouldn’t just be minimized as a “gimmick” - I recently played through Death Stranding with DLSS enabled and it’s a night and day difference, I’ve played in 4K natively and DLSS trumps anything I’ve ever seen.

 

Example -

[SkateZilla]

I can’t speak to the resources necessary to get this implemented, but the results from DLSS shouldn’t just be minimized as a “gimmick” - I recently played through Death Stranding with DLSS enabled and it’s a night and day difference, I’ve played in 4K natively and DLSS trumps anything I’ve ever seen.

 

Example -

 

Welcome to the Forums!

[Leaderface]

Anyone knows if DLSS MUST to be allowed in-game or you can force it on Nvidia drivers?

Maybe resolution upscalling is a feature of DX12+ and Vulkan and can´t be enabled in DX11, because AMD RDNA2 will have such a feature too (even in next gen consoles).

We will need that on VR and dual 4K panels. (And on standalone VR headsets that works over WIFI).

The future of VR will be wireless with upscalling inside the headset.

[SkateZilla]

Anyone knows if DLSS MUST to be allowed in-game or you can force it on Nvidia drivers?

Maybe resolution upscalling is a feature of DX12+ and Vulkan and can´t be enabled in DX11, because AMD RDNA2 will have such a feature too (even in next gen consoles).

We will need that on VR and dual 4K panels. (And on standalone VR headsets that works over WIFI).

The future of VR will be wireless with upscalling inside the headset.

 

Currently not possible.

[Leaderface]

@skatezilla: I read lots of people talking about the huge FPS gains over reducing shadows, trees, and drawing distance..... It´s not actually posible to oclude non-visible objets and shadows in the actual DX11 graphic engine? (so they don´t waste GPU time)

Maybe is that a function only aviable in DX12 or Vulkan?

Is that the solution to improve most of the stutters people reports?

Edited July 31, 2020 by Leaderface

[SkateZilla]

@skatezilla: I read lots of people talking about the huge FPS gains over reducing shadows, trees, and drawing distance..... It´s not actually posible to oclude non-visible objets and shadows in the actual DX11 graphic engine? (so they don´t waste GPU time)

Maybe is that a function only aviable in DX12 or Vulkan?

Is that the solution to improve most of the stutters people reports?

 

reducing shadows, trees and draw distance reduces the amount of objects, which reduces draw calls, which reduces the DX11 API CPU Overhead, which allows for more efficient instructions processing and frame render times.

 

has nothing to do with objects hidden behind anything etc.

[Leaderface]

reducing shadows, trees and draw distance reduces the amount of objects, which reduces draw calls, which reduces the DX11 API CPU Overhead, which allows for more efficient instructions processing and frame render times.

 

has nothing to do with objects hidden behind anything etc.

But hidden objets and hidden shadows, etc can be taking into acccount in DX12 and Vulkan so as not wasting GPU time, no?

That will be the way to solve the problem on the distant future, no?

Or DX11 allready do that and we are allready getting those benefits and are not enough?

Edited August 1, 2020 by Leaderface

[Headwarp]

I know this post is a few months old. But I have to say.. my first experience with DLSS was horrible. It wasn't far off from the downsampling options built into the game it was implemented in. But it was DLSS not DLSS 2.0.

 

 

I just jumped in to a different title that I believe has to be using DLSS 2.0.. and it looked freaking amazing. Frankly I'd love to see this revisited by ED as an option. MSAA seems to have even more of a performance hit after the lighting update. FXAA or without AA leaves shimmering buildings and landscapes that tend to drive me crazy.

 

I know it's a long shot to think the team might explore DLSS 2.0, but I think it potentially answers a problem we've been dealing with as players since deferred shading was decided upon as the sole rendering method.

 

Ray traced shadows and light sources (minus reflections) could be cool too...but less important by far than anti-aliasing that works with minimal performance impact. After experiencing DLSS 2.0, I feel like this could be a solution for newer nvidia gpu owners.

 

 

[Harlikwin]

The problem is that its NVIDA specific, and ED has a policy not to do vendor specific stuff. IDK why, since there are only really 2 vendors, so do some features from one that make sense and that covers 50% of your customer base, though at a guess maybe more.