Please make cockpit dirt optional...way too clean now

[Chimango]

Assign a different texture map to the glass and then you don't have to make 3 versions for each language but only switch between the different glass textures.

 

 

Exactly my thoughts.

 

Also, later i will upload a couple of comparative screenies to show what i mean about previous and current weathering; for instance 2 of the front glass serial numbers are missing (the two on the front right/left glass) and that didn't interfere with contact spotting. And just like this a couple of things could be added...but again, best option in IMO is to have it optional by default.

[bies]

Dirty glass had some charm, however it was totally unrealistic. No army would allow their supersonic fighters to operate with such dirty canopy.

[jojyrocks]

Lets pretend that it is FRESH from the factory....:thumbup:

[Chimango]

Dirty glass had some charm, however it was totally unrealistic. No army would allow their supersonic fighters to operate with such dirty canopy.

 

Just as unreallistic as having no feel of canopy/glass in front of you.

 

What are we discussing? Why is some people opposed to have it as OPTIONAL; don't force us to use it different to what it has been since day 1 just because some guys -mostly cause they want advantages in PvP- cry about it. I use the 21 PvP also and previous glass has never been an issue.

 

 

Also saying "such dirty canopy" is total exageration, this is the latest vid recorded during a COOP mission few days before current patch, MiG-21 glass never prevents anyone from spotting contacts, or it's not showing to be "so dirty" at all.

 

[rossmum]

What I'd like to see (but DCS doesn't support it, actually I don't think any sim does) is the canopy starting spotless on the ground, but low altitude flying results in bugs. Lots of bugs. The longer you stay low, the more bugs you collect.

 

It might force people out of the weeds if they want to keep a clean canopy, and it's realistic! I've never seen a video from a fighter's cockpit where there weren't at least some nice big bugs smeared across the canopy. Flying in the summer here, I would collect hundreds of them.

 

That's just my pet wish though, honestly the canopy glass is fine now. There's just enough grime to show the canopy is there, but it's also not enough to make spotting hard - critically the gunsight is now beautiful and clean. The biggest issue I have with the cockpit now is that the ED glass material is excessively reflective in certain lighting conditions (and they're not true reflections either), so it makes gauges hard to read sometimes and can cause the gunsight to lose some transparency at bad moments. The MiG-19 from Razbam suffers the same issue, but it's one that isn't urgent and can be worked on with time.

[streakeagle]

Like this starting from 5:20 :D

 

 

 

From the caption for the video you linked:

MiG-21BIS "MG-127" located at Finland, Lappeenranta airport (Karelia Aviation Museum). This fighter is modified to photo reconnaissance version and is now totally deactivated.

 

This is an outdoor museum piece.

 

Yes, you can find a video of a poorly maintained aircraft, but how many videos from the cockpit did you have to go through to find that one? I just watched four other videos on youtube with a search for "MiG-21bis" that showed the view through the glass being very clean. Some were still beat up looking from many other aspects inside the pit and around the frame, but they tend to have just minor scratches, not dusty/yellowed glass that you can't see through.

 

I am interested in flying the MiG when it was a frontline fighter and relatively young... 1970-1990, not 2020 dinosaurs. So as long as "dirty glass" is a simple option not requiring any mods, I am ok with it, but if I have to go back to what we had before, the DCS MiG-21 can go back in my hangar.

 

Right now, I am flying it in multiplayer and it is a blast being able to see... and when I am using the desktop monitor instead of lo-res/blurry VR, the glass still has visible flaws that more or less match what I have seen in videos.

 

I can contrast that to flying the MiG-15bis, which has a baked in reflection and I can't see through it at all when there is glare from the sun on the front winshield/gunsight. I used to have the same issue with the MiG-21bis, now I can see to fight instead of being blind over a 30-60 degree sector of the compass while the AI sees me perfectly and punishes me for being blinded.

 

What I like about this video despite its distant view and only short glimpse right at the start is that you can see the periscope mirror and canopy frame look damn near pristine. Apparently, some dinosaurs look better than others.

Edited June 14, 2020 by streakeagle

[Fri13]

Just as unreallistic as having no feel of canopy/glass in front of you.

 

But it currently does. You have the dirt and specks on it. It just ain't as dirty and smudgy as it was in the begin.

[Fri13]

I am interested in flying the MiG when it was a frontline fighter and relatively young... 1970-1990, not 2020 dinosaurs. So as long as "dirty glass" is a simple option not requiring any mods, I am ok with it, but if I have to go back to what we had before, the DCS MiG-21 can go back in my hangar.

 

 

This is where I hope ED will copy the Leatherneck F-14 "the forge" technology (or was it it?) where cockpit would change based the time frame you are flying the mission as well each time you step to cockpit.

 

Yes, it is little more work for the texture artists, but that is what for they are paid for (yippee!) and have more time then per module work as well (especially if freelancers).

 

But if we could see two kind things, time frame (release to future missions) for cockpit weathering. And time of day for canopy weathering (flying time since ground crew clean up, so 3-4 hour mission is little different as well day vs night etc).

 

Maybe in the future when more graphical features are polished and added etc....

[Chimango]

But it currently does. You have the dirt and specks on it.

 

All around yes and is not that bad, but my main issue is with the front area. Check these screenshots: first one from current cockpit (yesterday at Cold War server) and the two below from previous cockpit glass

 

CURRENT GLASS (empty, 2 serial numbers missiing on the sides, no sense of depth in the cockpit

 

PREVIOUS

 

 

If it's gonna be a fixed texture please find something in between, otherwise make it optional please

 

:thumbup:

[KAKTYC_11]

Previous version of cockpit exclude dirty glass was beautiful & now - its UGLY ! (((

[rossmum]

????

 

The cockpit now is what it's supposed to look like. The previous version was scaled wrong, and the geometry of the windscreen area was incorrect (excessive 'webbing' between sidelight frames), as well as the periscope being too far back.

 

What we have now is more detailed as well as realistically sized and shaped, and has better forwards visibility, like the real aircraft.

[cro_mig_21]

????

 

The cockpit now is what it's supposed to look like. The previous version was scaled wrong, and the geometry of the windscreen area was incorrect (excessive 'webbing' between sidelight frames), as well as the periscope being too far back.

 

What we have now is more detailed as well as realistically sized and shaped, and has better forwards visibility, like the real aircraft.

+1

[Chimango]

????

 

The cockpit now is what it's supposed to look like. The previous version was scaled wrong, and the geometry of the windscreen area was incorrect (excessive 'webbing' between sidelight frames), as well as the periscope being too far back.

 

What we have now is more detailed as well as realistically sized and shaped, and has better forwards visibility, like the real aircraft.

 

I agree, the've done a great job re-shaping and sizing the cockpit. The lighting looks amazing also.

[*Rage*]

Can i have a cleaner (spotless) canopy?

[Airhunter]

All around yes and is not that bad, but my main issue is with the front area. Check these screenshots: first one from current cockpit (yesterday at Cold War server) and the two below from previous cockpit glass

 

If it's gonna be a fixed texture please find something in between, otherwise make it optional please

 

:thumbup:

 

Your point being?

 

 

[Blinde]

Looking at these pictures and videos of the cockpit, the default color of the cockpit is more greenish turquoise, instead of the blueish what we have now.

 

How come?

[-Rudel-]

Our cockpit color is based on a Bulgarian variant. At the time of original texturing, we have superb high resolution pictures of it and used many portions in the actual work.

[Bozon]

I love the new cockpit!

This great module is getting even better :thumbup:

[Chimango]

Your point being?

 

 

 

My point? I think it's quite clear, have you been reading? And what's your point sharing a museum stored MiG-21? (facepalm here). It's like someone complained about an enduro racing motorcycle replica not being weathered enough and you showed to us one just hand washed that you store in your garage instead of a picture of one during a race. Show to me -for example- the cockpit glass of a soviet MiG-21 after it came from a sortie during Soviet-Afgan war during the 80s, or a Middle East conflict one over the decades after seing combat every day for several months, and not after it's cleaned, but during a sortie... and then we talk.

 

Anyway, even in your shiny MiG-21 photo it's quite clear the scratches and dots in the cockpit glass on the first picture. That is what gives a feel of 3D, something very difficult to accomplish in a 2D monitor and something previous cockpit glass we had gave in a very solid way. Our Magnitude MiG-21 module it's great, amazing plane and my favourite module next to the the F-14, current shaping, FM and lighting it's top notch...all i ask is to have the cockpit glass we used to have previous to last update AS OPTIONAL. If not, please Magnitude find something in between specially for the left and right front glass...it looks really sterile, all the rest is quite fine.

[Airhunter]

My point? I think it's quite clear, have you been reading? And what's your point sharing a museum stored MiG-21? (facepalm here). It's like someone complained about an enduro racing motorcycle replica not being weathered enough and you showed to us one just hand washed that you store in your garage instead of a picture of one during a race. Show to me -for example- the cockpit glass of a soviet MiG-21 after it came from a sortie during Soviet-Afgan war during the 80s, or a Middle East conflict one over the decades after seing combat every day for several months, and not after it's cleaned, but during a sortie... and then we talk.

 

Anyway, even in your shiny MiG-21 photo it's quite clear the scratches and dots in the cockpit glass on the first picture. That is what gives a feel of 3D, something very difficult to accomplish in a 2D monitor and something previous cockpit glass we had gave in a very solid way. Our Magnitude MiG-21 module it's great, amazing plane and my favourite module next to the the F-14, current shaping, FM and lighting it's top notch...all i ask is to have the cockpit glass we used to have previous to last update AS OPTIONAL. If not, please Magnitude find something in between specially for the left and right front glass...it looks really sterile, all the rest is quite fine.

 

 

[Chimango]

 

 

...

 

Show to me -for example- the cockpit glass of a soviet MiG-21 after it came from a sortie during Soviet-Afgan war during the 80s, or a Middle East conflict one over the decades after seing combat every day for several months, and not after it's cleaned, but during a sortie... and then we talk.

[Mainstay]

Our cockpit color is based on a Bulgarian variant. At the time of original texturing, we have superb high resolution pictures of it and used many portions in the actual work.

 

 

 

 

Would it be possible to give a turquoise option in the options tab after you guys complete the overhaul?

[CoBlue]

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by CoBlue

[303_Kermit]

On 6/12/2020 at 7:16 AM, Chimango said:

The 21 got some love, thanks for the improvements in the new patch. But please, not only our sticked front sheet with convertions was removed (i really liked it) but also the cockpit glass is way too clean now, i liked the previous version, was more inmersive.

 

Please, make the weathered cockpit glass optional -same with the front sticked sheet- at least, if not, i'd rather have the previous stinky one.

I see there's a group of "Dirt-Windshield-Fetish-Society". I can understand... Dirt turns you on guys. It's ... Different... but look there's a group of guys who has "standard preferences". I just become reply for my req, that MiG21 windshield is dirty because of you. Shit... I shall start such topic for F16 since I don't fly one "Please make the windshield of F16 just as dirty as the one F16A from the museum I saw in sommer these year! It's not realistic to have clean, unobstructed visibility. 

I can understand that there are guys who like to fly DCS wirthout shooting once and "just enjoy the feeling" but in PvP these dirty windshield is worse thing than having a broken radar. I watched a movie placed here. I see reflections appear and disapear. In DCS they are just sticked to the perspex. It looks hidious in 2D when you move a head front and back. It looks even worse in 3D. Like a some strange painting on a perspex. 

Reflections depend on light , and camera lenses or filters, look here: 
one more thing. Look how clean a windshield of combat ready planes is. Even the old ones. Bare in mind that a plane in second film is quite old already, and still look how clean it is (especially around periscope).  Please make reflections and dirt (especially dirt) optional.
PS... second film from 2:40... till the end. It's amazing.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by 303_Kermit

[Lixma 06]

I also preferred the original 'dusty' glass - it really felt like you were looking through something. It was a fantastic illusion. Hopefully it returns as an option when the devs come back to the '21.

e.g. from 2:35

 

Also, in Kermit's Lancer video you can see canopy distortion near the framing - I wonder how feasible such an effect is?

Edited December 12, 2021 by Lixma 06