announced DCS MiG-29A

[Lurker]

41 minutes ago, TotenDead said:

i'm sorry, did I say official announcement? Check Kate Perederko messages in Discord

 

 

Actually yes you did, you said official plan. Sorry but a discord blurb:

 

"7. The development of the clickable Mig-29 9-12 will start after the Black Shark 3."

 

Is not an official plan. It's a discord blurb. Which should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt since Black Shark 3 has in the meantime been cancelled. 

Here is another hint: This entire thread is still in the Wishlist section. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Lurker

[TotenDead]

1 минуту назад, Lurker сказал:

It's a discord blurb. Which should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt since Black Shark 3 has in the meantime been cancelled. 

Yeah, blurb. That's what we usually hear from Chief Operational Officer

[Lurker]

4 minutes ago, TotenDead said:

Yeah, blurb. That's what we usually hear from Chief Operational Officer

 

Whatever dude, I'm not here to argue semantics with you. If you choose to believe that the Mig29 is a certainty, well good for you. I'm not that naive. 

[TotenDead]

1 минуту назад, Lurker сказал:

 

Whatever dude, I'm not here to argue semantics with you.

Yeah, I see that xd

[*Rage*]

I see real potential in an 80s style competition with FF F14A, M2K, Mig29A in limited quantities with larger quantities of Mig21/F5/Viggen. 

[TotenDead]

11 минут назад, *Rage* сказал:

I see real potential in an 80s style competition with FF F14A, M2K, Mig29A in limited quantities with larger quantities of Mig21/F5/Viggen. 

Welp, unfortunately that might be realistic for single player at best

[*Rage*]

I see the cold war server almost constantly populated with planes from that era

[TotenDead]

21 минуту назад, *Rage* сказал:

I see the cold war server almost constantly populated with planes from that era

People mainly fly F-16s, F-15s, hornets, harriers, Su-27s and MiG-29s, not F-5s or MiG-21s. That's, of course, if they have a choice

[bies]

54 minutes ago, *Rage* said:

I see real potential in an 80s style competition with FF F14A, M2K, Mig29A in limited quantities with larger quantities of Mig21/F5/Viggen. 

 

Add to that other aircrafts from this era being developed A-6E Intruder, A-7E Corsair, F-8J Crusader, MiG-23MLA, Bo-105, Mirage F.1, Mi-24P - most of them will be finished before MiG-29 9.12.

 

Plus nearly all ground assets, all SAMs, nearly all AI planes are also late Cold War.

Plus most FC3 simplified aircrafts like Su-27S, F-15C, Su-25A, A-10A.

 

And Simon Pearson in the interview said they want to make Fulda Gap map Germany Cold War 1980s.

Edited February 11, 2021 by bies

[Hodo]

6 hours ago, Jonne said:

Corrected it for you.

The 15E is technically post 90.  While it entered service in 1989 it didn't see action or until 1991.  

 

But I will let it go because we don't even have that yet.

[Jonne]

I was also thinking about that one, but the Viggen we have is very well a post 1990 variant without the possibility of restricting it to an AJ37 through the mission editor.

[Hodo]

11 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

Don't know if it's relevant or not: official 29 manual recommends 900km/h TAS for the  climb.

True.   But who has time for that?  LoL

[Jonne]

11 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

Don't know if it's relevant or not: official 29 manual recommends 900km/h TAS for the  climb.

For which case? Best economy, or intercept regime, or what is it?

[Seaeagle]

18 hours ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

I understand people want it, people want lots of things but its more reasonable to better allocate time and resources elsewhere.

 

I didn't say the promised to make FC3 planes FF, I said they promised to fully model them.

How can they "fully model them" without making them FF?

 

18 hours ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

 

I'm sure I mentioned every FC3 radar is grossly under modeled?

I am sure you have also noticed that whenever someone raises a complaint about a system or sensor defeciency of an FC3 aircraft, that the standard resonse from ED is that FC3 is what it is and that they will only address such issues in connection with ASM - i.e. when/if they decide to make a particular aircraft as a FF module. 

 

That alone is reason enough to support a FF MiG-29.....or any other FC3 aircraft for that matter. Besides, aside from the F-16 and F-18, FC3 currently "sits on" the most iconic and attractive fighter types in DCS, so even if they already exist in the sim, its a little difficult to see what other possible future candidates could be more profitable for them to take on.....not least considering that a lot of the work(external models, cockpits and PFM) has already been done for all of them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cmptohocah]

21 minutes ago, Jonne said:

For which case? Best economy, or intercept regime, or what is it?

It doesn't specify. It's a part of the climb-out procedure to 12000m, in preparation of getting the aircraft to its:

1. speed/mach limits 

2. service ceiling

I am guessing no economy is considered in this case, but I could be wrong.

[Harlikwin]

7 hours ago, Harker said:

While I don't share the sentiment that modern BVR is boring, I do remember this statement from ED. TBH, it read more as "FOX3s and radars are hard to code, so go do dogfights, where all you need is a good FM". It's either that or them admitting that they sacrificed fidelity in the name of (what they think is good) gameplay, which is the equivalent of a cardinal sin in a sim. The backlash was immediate and they quickly rescinded that statement; I hope they have changed their approach since. No matter the system, old or new, they should model it as faithfully as possible.

As for the FF MiG-29, I personally think it's going to sell well, despite its low perceived capabilities, especially if they create a decent GCI system to go with it. People will want to sit in the cockpit, flick the switches and experience all the quirks. The assumption that people only buy for capabilities is a flawed one. I have very little interest in older aircraft for MP, but even I am considering getting it, if nothing else, simply to fly in it. It'll also be a nice 80's choice for those who don't like dealing with two-seater aircraft, such as the F-14 (I was excited, but Jester really drove me away from SP in the F-14).

 

Yeah, I really don't know why the said it. And to be honest I play quite a bit on the modern servers due to my time zone its usually where the people are. To a point I'll agree and disagree with your sentiment about low perceived capabilities at least in terms of the PVP crowd. You and I and probably alot of guys are interested in flipping the switches and having a "different" AC experience, or having "challenging" things like crappy nav aids etc. But from what I have seen a large proportion of "new" players coming to DCS from "other" sims absolutely want the most capable plane they can get so that they can be "competitive". Also this is where I think alot of the Fox3 syndrome comes from, they are fairly easy to employ (if usually incorrectly). I have also seen alot of hate and rage comments from the F14 guys about the how HB is now destroying the F14 (more realistic aero now) and the phoenix isn't the insta-win button it once was. And I've seen a bunch of those guys that almost exclusively flew the 14 move on to other platforms.  My general hope is that eventually those guys get good enough to branch out into the "inferior air frames" for PVP, but I absolutely think the "new" crowd is going to graviate to the "uber" planes to be "competitive" its a sentiment I hear over and over again.

 

That being said, I think in a period appropriate setting, the 9.12 mig29 would do VERY well (80's). But the problem is we don't have much in the way of "balanced" bluefor for it to fight. 

[Harlikwin]

6 hours ago, Harker said:

 

 

I don't expect a GCI system for at least 3-4 years, if not more. I'm just saying that if such a thing comes along, it'd be a good selling point for the 29.

Plus, the only example we have of the "improved ATC" is the Supercarrier and that system is extremely basic, breaks constantly in MP, offers very little actual interaction and is not dynamic at all. I personally don't see a half-decent GCI being possible any time soon.

As for subsidizing development, I'm all for it. DCS is my main hobby and I don't mind paying for it. I'd gladly do so, if it meant a more polished product in the form of a freshly written DCS 3.0 or something. But that's another conversation altogether.

 

 

I hope you're wrong :). I actually hope some sort of functionality for it might come from the Dynamic campaign "AI". I mean really it wouldn't be that hard to do. See enemy fighters/etc. Vector a friendly flight on some not totally stupid flight path to intercept them doesn't seem too rocket science to me, and will probably have to be "tackled" by the dynamic campaign "somehow". It shouldn't be too much rocket science to vector a flight so they are coming in from the side and not full frontal intercept. That way you can stay off the radar and once in range, radar on, missiles away. 

 

 

[Jonne]

Oh okay, so that is similar to what is also described in the MiG-21bis flight manual. However there should also be climb speed for maximum range or something described. 900km/h TAS is quite fast and probably not the best bet for a non intercept mission.

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

3 hours ago, Seaeagle said:

How can they "fully model them" without making them FF?

 

I am sure you have also noticed that whenever someone raises a complaint about a system or sensor defeciency of an FC3 aircraft, that the standard resonse from ED is that FC3 is what it is and that they will only address such issues in connection with ASM - i.e. when/if they decide to make a particular aircraft as a FF module. 

 

That alone is reason enough to support a FF MiG-29.....or any other FC3 aircraft for that matter. Besides, aside from the F-16 and F-18, FC3 currently "sits on" the most iconic and attractive fighter types in DCS, so even if they already exist in the sim, its a little difficult to see what other possible future candidates could be more profitable for them to take on.....not least considering that a lot of the work(external models, cockpits and PFM) has already been done for all of them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FC3 as defined by ED'S own terms should be no more different in how authentically core capabilities are modeled from FF planes. The interaction with them though should be only through keybinds not actually clicking on it.

 

They can fully model them by starting to Fix errors and bugs in FC3 and bring the planes up to the standard they promised.

 

If they couldn't do it right like they said the first time with FC3 why should I trust ED to do it right in FF?

[Tippis]

1 hour ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

If they couldn't do it right like they said the first time with FC3 why should I trust ED to do it right in FF?

Because “the first time” was in a completely separate game, almost 20 years ago.

Your own user name will somewhat ironically also answer the question…

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

FC3 as defined by ED'S own terms should be no more different in how authentically core capabilities are modeled from FF planes. The interaction with them though should be only through keybinds not actually clicking on it.

 

They can fully model them by starting to Fix errors and bugs in FC3 and bring the planes up to the standard they promised.

 

If they couldn't do it right like they said the first time with FC3 why should I trust ED to do it right in FF?

 

TBH, FC3 planes should eventually be phased out of DCS entirely IMO. And honestly probably will be eventually.

 

So far we have the following on the table:

 

FF mig29 (replaces 29, 29G, 29S) yeah I know people still want the S, but again, not a ton more work if the 9.12 sells, 29G is more or less a 9.12 with derated engines and some german stickers.

 

Su-27's (no replacements in sight) Very slight possibly of a J-11A via deka at some point, or maybe ED if the 29 sells well. 

 

Su-25, honestly I don't really see much reason why the A couldn't be done, very simple A/C much like the FF29, needs buttons basically, be nice to have a more realistic ground attack system though. I'm honestly surprised some 3rd party hasn't made a clicky pit mod for the existing models. It can't be more complex than the A4.

 

F15C, Well, we will get the F15E from Raz, and 90% of the online crowd will pretend its a C anyway and fly it 90% of the time for air superiority. 

 

A-10A, again, similar case to the Su-25, AND we already are most of the way there on systems modeling from the A10C, just strip out the fancy avionics. Again, the whole ground attack "system" might need a rework though.

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Harlikwin

[Kev2go]

5 hours ago, Seaeagle said:

How can they "fully model them" without making them FF?

 

I am sure you have also noticed that whenever someone raises a complaint about a system or sensor defeciency of an FC3 aircraft, that the standard resonse from ED is that FC3 is what it is and that they will only address such issues in connection with ASM - i.e. when/if they decide to make a particular aircraft as a FF module. 

 

That alone is reason enough to support a FF MiG-29.....or any other FC3 aircraft for that matter. Besides, aside from the F-16 and F-18, FC3 currently "sits on" the most iconic and attractive fighter types in DCS, so even if they already exist in the sim, its a little difficult to see what other possible future candidates could be more profitable for them to take on.....not least considering that a lot of the work(external models, cockpits and PFM) has already been done for all of them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 should be also be also considered that MAC will be the future of FC3 style modules.  Considering MAC will include all the aircraft already in FC3 ( and then some)  its probably safe to assume that MAC will have updated FC3 models and systems, whereas FC3 is a legacy product that will fade into obscurity like FC1 and 2

20 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

 

TBH, FC3 planes should eventually be phased out of DCS entirely IMO. And honestly probably will be eventually.

 

So far we have the following on the table:

 

FF mig29 (replaces 29, 29G, 29S) yeah I know people still want the S, but again, not a ton more work if the 9.12 sells, 29G is more or less a 9.12 with derated engines and some german stickers.

 

Su-27's (no replacements in sight) Very slight possibly of a J-11A via deka at some point, or maybe ED if the 29 sells well. 

 

Su-25, honestly I don't really see much reason why the A couldn't be done, very simple A/C much like the FF29, needs buttons basically, be nice to have a more realistic ground attack system though. I'm honestly surprised some 3rd party hasn't made a clicky pit mod for the existing models. It can't be more complex than the A4.

 

F15C, Well, we will get the F15E from Raz, and 90% of the online crowd will pretend its a C anyway and fly it 90% of the time for air superiority. 

 

A-10A, again, similar case to the Su-25, AND we already are most of the way there on systems modeling from the A10C, just strip out the fancy avionics. Again, the whole ground attack "system" might need a rework though.

 

 

 

 

FC3 will be merely succeeded  with MAC planes instead.

 

Sure MAC was initially said to be standalone product but it seems ED has shifted thier initial decision to instead making MAC the next Flaming cliffs and have it same DCS environment as FF modules.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Kev2go

[GGTharos]

22 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

TBH, FC3 planes should eventually be phased out of DCS entirely IMO. And honestly probably will be eventually.

 

Actually they're adding more.  And it's a silly notion too, to phase them out.  They're the gateway aircraft.

 

 

[Harlikwin]

Just now, GGTharos said:

 

Actually they're adding more.  And it's a silly notion too, to phase them out.  They're the gateway aircraft.

 

 

 

Really? What are the adding?

 

Honestly I always thought that FC3 would become MAC and DCS would continue with FF modules only. 

[GGTharos]

Maybe that will happen but I sort of doubt that those modules will be removed.  We'll see.   They're adding F-5, MiG-21 I think?  Maybe something else.   I forget all that was listed in the announcement.