Armament options

[S.E.Bulba]

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Bulba did you know the MI-24 was equipped with the R-60"M" later one,

or was this even Possible?..

IIRC, if the AAMs launch system is installed on the helicopter, then both R-60 and R-60M can be used.

 

… R-60M had now nitrous cooled Seeker…

… AAMs with an uncooled or thermoelectrically cooled photodetector of the IR homing head (R-60 and R-60M, respectively)…

 

Original in Russian

 

… УР «В-В» с неохлаждаемым или термоэлектрически охлаждаемым фотоприёмником ИКГСН (Р-60 и Р-60М соответственно)…

 

… Is there visual difference between R-60 and R-60M?

 

 

R-60 old Seeker?..

It is unlikely that you can tell the R-60 from the R-60M from the photo. AFAIK, there seems to be a difference only in the diameter of the 'eyes' of their IR seekers, the difference between which is measured by several millimeters.

 

… R-60M new Seeker?..

In the last photo, the IR seeker is closed with a lid.

 

Original in Russian

 

ЕМНИП, если на вертолёт установлена система пуска РВВ, то возможно применение как Р-60, так и Р-60М.

 

Вряд ли Вы по фото отличите Р-60 от Р-60М. ЕМНИП, там различие вроде только в диаметре «глаз» их ИКГСН, разница между которыми измеряется несколькими миллиметрами.

 

На крайнем фото ИКГСН закрыта крышкой.

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by S.E.Bulba
update.

[S.E.Bulba]

Google Translate

 

Thanks for the info! It is neat that they are considering the R-60 at all. This gives me hope that some of the other more common systems (e.g. FAB-100, S-24, S-5) will also be included.

 

The possibility of the 9M120 being included is also an interesting surprise. Do you know if the 9M120F or 9M220O are operational? Are either of these warhead options plausible?

I remembered… :)

Спасибо за ответ!

Хотелось бы уточнить несколько моментов:

1) Стоит ли ожидать 9М114 и 9М120 с фугасной БЧ? Может даже будет 9-А-2200?

2) Если не секрет, под какие НАР было доработано АЦВУ?

3) Опять же какая будет поправка при применении разных НАР в Б8В20-а?

4) Может когда-нибудь появится возможность проверки 9С475 и 9С477 встроенным контролем?

5) Может будет борттехник с ПК?

6) Будут ли проблемы с обстрелом танков с КОЭП типа Штора?

1) ожидать в течение не этого года - ДА!)

2) -8КОМ, -8ОФП, -8ДМ (для С-5КО было изначально);

3) в реальности та, которую установит "вооружейник" на переключателе В1 (который в радиоотсеке), а у нас возможно сделаем по тому типу НАР, который в левом внутреннем блоке, чтобы не грузить пользователя необходимостью устанавливать тип НАР для АЦВУ в редакторе, или значением по умолчанию, если БД-2 окажется пустой (т.е. пользователь извращенный, делает несимметричную зарядку). Таким образом, если с правой стороны НАР отличаются, значит для них прицеливайся либо в АВТ с "учетом" на глаз, либо в РУЧН и сам ручками покрути прицел));

4) в пределах процедур для членов экипажа, предписанных ИЭ при подготовке к боевому применению УРВ после запуска двигателей, не более;

5) ответил тов.S.E.Bulba))

6) в DCS такая защита пока что не смоделирована для боевой техники. Если в ЕД решат такой геймплей делать, то нужно делать как полагается, а это не один день работы..

ПС.борттехника (который контролирует работу систем в мирное время) в вертолете не будет. Стрелок будет, но возможно не сразу.

 

Original in Russian

 

Вспомнил… :)

 

[Avimimus]

With this wonderful information I can now find peace in my soul... I will lie dormant until release, and even if these planned features are cancelled - I will still be content.

[CoBlue]

It will carry 8x Shturm, right?

[Avimimus]

It will carry 8x Shturm, right?

 

It should be able to... we've only seen tubes on the outermost dedicated hardpoints - but the middle hardpoints are known to carry them.

 

Also - something which surprised me - we are apparently getting the ATAKA as well, as the 9M120 can also be used! I'd always assumed these were separate generations of missile with different guidance systems (and certainly some 9M120 projects had more advanced guidance) but it seems they are compatible! So we'll hopefully be getting two types of anti-tank missiles and we might even get a couple of warhead variations with in that.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

That's part of the design requirement for the Ataka - unlike the exclusively SACLOS Shturm, or the exclusively beam-riding Vikhr, the Ataka can use both, meaning it can be used on all operational Russian attack helicopters.

[sublime]

Since I wasn't there myself, and i think you too, I can only reproduce it as I read it in the book Mi-24 (ISBN 978-3-613-03897-4) on page 146.

I also wrote GSSD (Group of the Soviet Armed Forces in Germany), neither GSFD nor GSVG.

 

And the text actually says what I had already written:

В-третьих, ИКГСН ракеты Р-60 могла обнаружить на расстоянии не более 600 м вертолёту . Для самолётов с поршневыми двигателями [/ U] результат был ещё хуже.

 

jumping in without reading everything - stupid I know

 

I can attest to the fact that after several German civvie stunts in the 80s the GSFG decided migs etc were too fast to patrol the IGB for helos and light aircraft.

they jury rigged Mi24s which are fast with R60s.

I can fiind picures if ppl really think this is a huge deal or impossible

this WASNT common, this was a field mod for a ccertain area

Later versions Im sure, were able to use r60

[kotor633]

For some reason, it seems to me that Michael Normann wrote his book, published in 2016, using Soviet/Russian sources. Yes, the Mi-24 units of the GSFG were partially armed with R-60 missiles, but it is surprising that Normann is transferring the test results in the TurkVO to some kind of "battlefield exercises" in the GSFG. :)

 

 

You write in the English-language forum in German transcription: GSSD (Gruppe der Sowjetischen Streitkräfte in Deutschland). At the same time, I am writing in English transcription: GSFG (Group of Soviet Forces in Germany). In Russian transcription, it will be correct: ГСВГ (Группа советских войск в Германии). Do you think I wrote something wrong? :)

 

 

This is not entirely true. You did not mention the presence of EES on helicopters during testing.

 

Original in Russian

 

Мне почему-то кажется, что Михаэль Норман писа́л свою книгу, вышедшую в 2016 году, используя советские/российские источники. Да, части Ми-24 ГСВГ частично были вооружены ракетами Р-60, однако удивительно, что Норман переносит результаты испытаний в ТуркВО на какие-то «боевые учения» в ГСВГ. :)

 

Вы на англоязычном форуме пишите в немецкой транскрипции: GSSD (Gruppe der Sowjetischen Streitkräfte in Deutschland). Я при этом пишу в английской транскрипции: GSFG (Group of Soviet Forces in Germany). В русской транскрипции правильно будет: ГСВГ (Группа советских войск в Германии). Считаете, что я написа́л что-то неправильно? :)

 

Это не совсем так. Вы не упоминали о наличии ЭВУ на вертолётах при испытаниях.

 

Well then I will have learned something again. As I said, so far I only have this one book about the Mi-24. If you know better about it or if you have a few tips where you can read it more (and where possibly better researched) then you are welcome to post it here.

[Avimimus]

That's part of the design requirement for the Ataka - unlike the exclusively SACLOS Shturm, or the exclusively beam-riding Vikhr, the Ataka can use both, meaning it can be used on all operational Russian attack helicopters.

 

Isn't that just the Ataka-VM? So far as I can tell it can only be used on the Mi-35.

[Vil_Coyote]

Hello,

 

 

what are the weapons on external point ? 2xAT-6 + Igla ? AG+AA weapons ?

 

 

[CoBlue]

What kind of sight mechanism is there for pilot's cannon & rockets, gyro stabilized, boresight, other?

Is it going to be easier to aim than in the Mi-8?

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Absolutely better! The Mi-24P uses the ASP-17 gunsight, exactly the same model as used on the Su-25 in DCS. It can give you a solution for cannon, rockets and bombs.

[T0x1s]

Good video of the P in use:

 

I hope they are able to recreate the fireball created by the 30mm

[Stratos]

Fire spitting demon

 

[schurem]

Oh man what a monster. I can't wait to get my crocodile on!

[Avimimus]

Fire spitting demon

 

They actually lengthened the barrel for the helicopter (i.e. it is longer than on the Su-25A)!

 

Mi-24P:

126 kg gun

940 m/s

300-2600 RPM

2.4 metre long barrel

Round 390g, 0-48.5g explosive charge

 

AH-64:

59.5 kg

805 m/s

625 PRM

~1.06 metre length

Round 339g, 21.5g explosive charge

 

So compared to the AH-64, the Mi-24P has:

1.34 times the kinetic energy?

2.25 times the high explosive charge?

 

Compared to the Mi-24P, the A-10 has:

1.09 times the kinetic energy (not including the velocity of the aircraft)

1.2 times the explosive charge

 

GAU-8

281kg

1,010 m/s

3900 rpm

2.3 meters barrel length

395g, 58g explosive charge

Edited September 12, 2020 by Avimimus

[tempusmurphy]

I read somewhere they had to extend the barrel becuse the muzzle was right beside the co-pilot gunner, and the muzzle blast was causing damage to the airframe and the person sitting beside it... so in true russian style they just welded a bit on the end and moved the muzzele forwards a bit.

[fargo007]

I read somewhere they had to extend the barrel becuse the muzzle was right beside the co-pilot gunner, and the muzzle blast was causing damage to the airframe and the person sitting beside it... so in true russian style they just welded a bit on the end and moved the muzzele forwards a bit.

 

They did extend it, but it was because it wasn't doing the same amount of damage they expected, based on other 30mm platforms. The longer barrel produced an increase in muzzle velocity which made the rounds hit harder.

[Avimimus]

They did extend it, but it was because it wasn't doing the same amount of damage they expected, based on other 30mm platforms. The longer barrel produced an increase in muzzle velocity which made the rounds hit harder.

 

Wasn't it simply to have the rounds travel through less rotor-wash (and thus avoid an increase in dispersion associated with flying through the turbulent air)?

[AlphaOneSix]

AH-64:

~2.2 metre barrel

 

The M230 barrel is significantly shorter than 2.2 meters. The entire gun system is less than 1.7 meters long.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

The primary reason for the extension was to prevent the muzzle flash from blinding the gunner and the sighting system.

[Rogue Trooper]

Also do not forget the Projectile and Cartridge in the comparison.

MI-24P has a 30 x 165 mm round, heavier projectile, more propellant.

AH-64 has a 30 x 113 mm round.

[Avimimus]

Corrected and updated

[Sealpup]

Also do not forget the Projectile and Cartridge in the comparison.

MI-24P has a 30 x 165 mm round, heavier projectile, more propellant.

AH-64 has a 30 x 113 mm round.

 

Much higher velocity as well. I tried looking into this a while ago, and what I found suggests that the Gsh-30-2 has similar ballistics to the A-10's complimentary can-opener.

[AlphaOneSix]

It's not without reason that the gun on the AH-64 is called the Area Weapon System.

 

Meanwhile, I got to watch a USAF presentation by an A-10C pilot and they classify their gun as a precision weapon.