[NO CHANGE] Hornet FM tweak in 17/08 update?

[VIXEN413]

Is it me or the hornet accelerates way slower then before?

It seems it became also more "second regime", in the pattern, turning final, the thrust you need to add to keep the AOA...

Also, even clean, the FCS page shows limits to 6,7g is that normal?

The sound update is great but engine sound feels like I m flying an AV8B...

 

I know it's still WIP and this is not ranting but more like observation.

Hope no bias is done to the FM to make it less potent compared to the Viper.

 

BR

[Arbil]

Take off roll and full burner acceleration out to 350kts seemed far more sluggish than before to me too.

 

Also noticed that the toe brakes won't keep you in place when running up to 90% rpm after the most recent patch.

[Davee]

Take off roll and full burner acceleration out to 350kts seemed far more sluggish than before to me too.

 

Also noticed that the toe brakes won't keep you in place when running up to 90% rpm after the most recent patch.

 

Agree on the toe brakes.

[Swift.]

Don't think the breaks ever held to 90%, that's why you run up to 85% instead

[maxTRX]

just tested the brakes, I can hold them at 90% power... if I needed to;)

 

touch above 91% and it starts rolling. one thing I noticed, once I overpowered the brakes, I needed to back down to 85% to stop rolling.

 

btw, I didn't notice any changes to FM yet (from the previous update). I haven't played with it much though.

[BuzzU]

Brakes not holding would make you think it has more power now. That doesn't match the sluggish acceleration.

[VIXEN413]

As I m away from my PC for a few days, a friend graciously tested FM from stable and OB and found no noticeable change in acceleration from one to the other.

Might have just been me as I flew the Viper for 3h over the Golan and Beyrut before jumping back in the hornet... Of course it feels more sluggish...

 

One more question, in the week news it is said that they have "adjusted turn rate needle"... Can one elaborate? What changed?

BR

[Cepheus76]

I haven't checked acceleration and the like, but I found that the aircraft is much more speed stable, making, e.g., aerial refueling much much easier.

 

Best regards,

 

Cepheus

[Phantom453]

No change? So I'm not the only on that though it felt different? Hmmmmm

 

I didn't notice any change in acceleration, but it felt to me she was flying faster in cruise/ level flight and also harder to hold still on the ground (starts to creep away without brakes on).

[KLaFaille]

No change? So I'm not the only on that though it felt different? Hmmmmm

 

I didn't notice any change in acceleration, but it felt to me she was flying faster in cruise/ level flight and also harder to hold still on the ground (starts to creep away without brakes on).

 

 

You don't happen to have the saturation turned down on your throttle axis do you? That can prevent the throttle bei f able to go fully idle resulting in rolling without brakes engaged.

[FightsOn]

It definitely felt to me like the flight model changed. Less AOA available during BFM, and way too little drag / bleed rate. Feels more like a Viper now than a Hornet...

 

Whatever changed, isn't good. Flight model seems like a step backwards...just my humble opinion.

[Swift.]

It definitely felt to me like the flight model changed. Less AOA available during BFM, and way too little drag / bleed rate. Feels more like a Viper now than a Hornet...

 

Whatever changed, isn't good. Flight model seems like a step backwards...just my humble opinion.

 

A step backward; Implying you know how the flight model should be irl? It has been noted that hornet has been massively overperforming, capable of outrating a viper. If any change has been made (which apparently it hasnt) then it sounds like you are describing a step forward instead.

[FightsOn]

I flew the real one for 8 years. It was over-performing, yes. But the areas they tweaked weren’t the areas it was incorrect. Prior, it could accelerate too fast, but the AOA felt correct. The feeling now is that it is less capable in AOA, but is still way overpowered.

[Figaro9]

I flew the real one for 8 years. It was over-performing, yes. But the areas they tweaked weren’t the areas it was incorrect. Prior, it could accelerate too fast, but the AOA felt correct. The feeling now is that it is less capable in AOA, but is still way overpowered.

 

Hi FightsOn

 

Thanks for your interesting comments.

I agree on aoa. ITR seems too low and speed bleed at corner too.

 

What lot did you fly?

I ask since my test in dcs seems to show that sep is too low, so I would say she is rather under powered in dcs compared to the rw figures in the gao-report for 402 engine (all tests with 2 aim9, 2 aim120, 60% fuel, 33325lbs)

 

Sep @ 10kft M0.9 Gao 699ft/s, dcs 613ft/s

Sep @ 20kft M0.9 Gao 512 ft/s, dcs 420ft/s

Sep @ 35kft M0.9 Gao 247 ft/s, dcs 213ft/s

 

She accordingly does not accelerate like in the gao chart:

 

Peak Acceleration :

@ 10 kft, Gao ~ 14kts/s, dcs 13.5 kts/sec

@ 20kft, Gao ~ 10.5kts/s, dcs 9.6 kts/sec

@ 30kft, Gao ~ 7kts/s, dcs 6.4 kts/sec

 

Further more I did not get max speed according the gao chart:

 

5kft gao m1.17, dcs m1.12

10kft gao m1.27 dcs m1.20

20kft gao m1.47 dcs m1.40

30kft gao m1.65 dcs m1.60

38kft gao m1.76 dcs m1.70

40kft gao m1.75 dcs m1.69

50kft gao m1.64 dcs m1.58

 

And last but not least I should get from brake release to 50kft and mach 1.4 in 4minutes 9 seconds (A-Modell 6min 15sec.) according swiss evaluation report, but best I get is 4min 15 sec and m1.33...

 

All tests where done with bushmannis script, so measured directly in game.

 

Cheers

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4391704&postcount=28

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4438052&postcount=58

[VIXEN413]

I flew the real one for 8 years. It was over-performing, yes. But the areas they tweaked weren’t the areas it was incorrect. Prior, it could accelerate too fast, but the AOA felt correct. The feeling now is that it is less capable in AOA, but is still way overpowered.

 

For such a characteristic of that plane (ie AOA) It would be sad if they turned it down, further from real capability.

I was wondering if it had anything to do with Max G limit. Don't know why but an unloaded jet shows me a limit to 6,7g. I tried various loadouts and still, I am very limited. While maneuvering, the number varied to 7 and something but I was wondering if it's not that creating an undesired limit in AOA...

Did you felt the same way while disconnecting the Glimiter (paddle)?

I wonder what other peers f18 jockeys have to say to ED about that too... You could open a bug report too if it might help...

 

Thanks

 

BR

Edited August 22, 2020 by VIXEN413

[Expert]

Is it me or the hornet accelerates way slower then before?

It seems it became also more "second regime", in the pattern, turning final, the thrust you need to add to keep the AOA...

Also, even clean, the FCS page shows limits to 6,7g is that normal?

The sound update is great but engine sound feels like I m flying an AV8B...

 

I know it's still WIP and this is not ranting but more like observation.

Hope no bias is done to the FM to make it less potent compared to the Viper.

 

BR

 

Sorry dude but do you see written in the changelog that the FM has been changed? or maybe I missed this part?

[VIXEN413]

Indeed, it is not written explicitly that a change was made but we can still inquire....

I m not the only one that felt (and maybe wrongly so) that something was different. But still, in the last 2 pages, some other users posted their observations that goes in the same direction.

Breaks got tweeked. Are they part of the FM as well and since some changes were made there, it might have affected other parts of it too.

Compressibility effects on pitot also added on the last update and for all planes. That might have an incidence too...

It s been noted as "no change" few hours ago but the FM is still in WIP too,

Hence my curiosity...

Edited August 22, 2020 by VIXEN413

[Expert]

Breaks got tweeked. Are they part of the FM as well and since some changes were made there, it might have affected other parts of it too.

Since there are others who report the same feelings(not only here) and since the FM has not been officially modified then it could be a bug. Unfortunately the only way to know this is to create a test run for the f-18 by testing it first on this version and then on the previous one. Nevertheless, to be able to figure it out, it would take people who are really prepared in the matter who can scientifically prove your claims, and given the level of this community, I would say that we are far away unfortunately.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Expert

[FightsOn]

Hi FightsOn

 

Thanks for your interesting comments.

I agree on aoa. ITR seems too low and speed bleed at corner too.

 

What lot did you fly?

I ask since my test in dcs seems to show that sep is too low, so I would say she is rather under powered in dcs compared to the rw figures in the gao-report for 402 engine (all tests with 2 aim9, 2 aim120, 60% fuel, 33325lbs)

 

Sep @ 10kft M0.9 Gao 699ft/s, dcs 613ft/s

Sep @ 20kft M0.9 Gao 512 ft/s, dcs 420ft/s

Sep @ 35kft M0.9 Gao 247 ft/s, dcs 213ft/s

 

She accordingly does not accelerate like in the gao chart:

 

Peak Acceleration :

@ 10 kft, Gao ~ 14kts/s, dcs 13.5 kts/sec

@ 20kft, Gao ~ 10.5kts/s, dcs 9.6 kts/sec

@ 30kft, Gao ~ 7kts/s, dcs 6.4 kts/sec

 

Further more I did not get max speed according the gao chart:

 

5kft gao m1.17, dcs m1.12

10kft gao m1.27 dcs m1.20

20kft gao m1.47 dcs m1.40

30kft gao m1.65 dcs m1.60

38kft gao m1.76 dcs m1.70

40kft gao m1.75 dcs m1.69

50kft gao m1.64 dcs m1.58

 

And last but not least I should get from brake release to 50kft and mach 1.4 in 4minutes 9 seconds (A-Modell 6min 15sec.) according swiss evaluation report, but best I get is 4min 15 sec and m1.33...

 

All tests where done with bushmannis script, so measured directly in game.

 

Cheers

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4391704&postcount=28

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4438052&postcount=58

 

 

The majority of my time was in Lot 12, small motor aircraft. I do have a little time in the big motor C (I believe it was a Lot 20?) as well as the E/F. My impression of being overpowered could be wrong based on the small engines vs EPE, but I know for certain the high AOA performance is wrong...

[Phil C6]

Hi, I don't know about real one but I have the same feeling than FightsOn:

The DCS F18 AOA seems limited to 27-30° till under 150kts like a F16 while from what i understood from other real F18 pilot it must be much higher.

F18 is build for nose autority, it's 1c fighter so is it normal than AOA isn't bigger at higher speed?

 

 

Best regards

Edited August 24, 2020 by Phil C6
I was wrong the FM is the same

[Swift.]

Hi, I don't know about real one but I have the same feeling than FightsOn:

Now the F18 AOA seems limited to 27-30° till under 150kts like a F16 while from what i understood from other real F18pilot it must be much higher.

F18 is build for nose autority, it's 1c fighter so it's strange than AOA is as much limited

 

Hornets AOA in DCS isn't "limited", if you slow down in level flight you will find yourself going up to almost 70-80 AOA iirc, before you lose aerodynamic control.

[Phil C6]

Hornets AOA in DCS isn't "limited", if you slow down in level flight you will find yourself going up to almost 70-80 AOA iirc, before you lose aerodynamic control.

 

Hi i'm maybe wrong but I think in the past we had bigger aoa at higher speed

 

After verify on old video i'm wrong it seems the same

 

Best regards

Edited August 24, 2020 by Phil C6
I was wrong

[FightsOn]

Yes. But you should be able to get significantly more than 27-30 AOA with a pull from 300kts.

[Figaro9]

In dcs, she has kind of a itr plateau like the viper. Above ~20-22° Aoa she cuts the corner and is limited to ~28° Aoa between ~ m0.34 and ~m 0.42 at sea level (clean and with 2a9&2a120).

Same picture at 15kft, but here she achieves ~30° aoa at ‘corner’.

 

I think it should be more like 34° Aoa, that is at least what I have red...

[Phil C6]

Hi,

Dogfight a M2000 with more AOA should be easier :-)

 

 

Best regards

Edited August 24, 2020 by Phil C6