The Nuclear Weapon ARM switch in the F18C?

[AH64D]

I learned in the back left of the cockpit there is a little silver switch, it arms nuclear tactical weapons. Right now the Hornet cannot equip these, but the switch is functional.

 

In the future will we ever get the ability to use Tactical Nuclear Weapons? Which raises another question; can any plane in DCS drop nukes?

[squid509]

1. that switch is non functional in the F18, yes you can flip it but it dose nothing

2. the F18 will not get a nuke

3. i dont know what your talking about:music_whistling:

[sigfan86]

Dcs has stated that they have no plans to include nuclear weapons with their own included aircraft. However a 3rd party included a nuclear bomb with one of their contributions, i believe its the mig 21bis. Its not accurately modeled though

[AH64D]

Seems this subject is not popular, won't mention it again. I just saw a youtube describing it, so I got curious.

Edited September 6, 2020 by AH64D

[Meyomyx]

Not really a lot of point. Deploy weapon. Game ends. Alternatively - weapon deployed against you. Game ends. I think you'll find that's the reason that ED have repeatedly said it will never be modelled

[Bunny Clark]

ED has said in the past that they have no intent to ever model nuclear weapons in DCS.

 

One of the reasons is, as mentioned already, it's problematic from a game play perspective. The other reason is that the safety systems, arming electronics, and procedures for deploying nuclear weapons from tactical aircraft are extremely classified. We know that the switch exists and arms onboard nuclear weapons somehow, and interfaces with a device called a Permissive Action Link. Beyond that, I'm not aware that there is really any more information in the public sphere about how the system works. It's not really enough information to go on for a study level module like the Hornet.

 

The MiG-21BIS by Leatherneck, a third party dev, does include a nuclear freefall bomb. It behaves like a really big conventional bomb though, since the DCS World code isn't designed for nuclear explosions.

[...]

It shouldn't end the game for everyone if the defending team makes good defense. That is the concept. Also, in DCS nothing ends, the planes do not end and no one dies. When one mission ends, another begins. Perhaps knowing that an airplane is approaching with a nuclear weapon would incentivize the opposing side. It would be great to know that I have prevented the destruction of several cities by intercepting the bomber. If a nuclear weapon falls on a target, it means that the opposing side has not done its job. Also, the weapon restriction depends on the person editing the mission. I participate in servers that have restricted JDAM and JSOW for being too powerful.

 

It has already been clear that it will not be implemented, but in the hypothetical case that it was, to be realistic, it would only place one of those bombs per mission.

 

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to include this as a response to comment #5

Edited September 6, 2020 by La Unión | Atazar

[falcon_120]

It won't come since its not worth the development effort (changes to the engine to include massive destruction, smoke particles for the huge fungus shape...).

 

You can "script" as nuclear bomb if you like in a server... so when a plane drop that bomb the mission ends...

 

I'm also happy they waste their limited resources in other important areas of the game (hoping for those new clouds and vulkan soon...)

[...]

It won't come since its not worth the development effort (changes to the engine to include massive destruction, smoke particles for the huge fungus shape...).

 

You can "script" as nuclear bomb if you like in a server... so when a plane drop that bomb the mission ends...

 

I'm also happy they waste their limited resources in other important areas of the game (hoping for those new clouds and vulkan soon...)

 

 

In that sense we all agree. If development consumes platform time and resources, there are other priorities. I am simply saying that it would be an interesting role, both for the bomber and for the bomber interceptor. The mission would end, but another would begin.

[bfr]

The F16 in DCS also has a nuclear consent switch if I remember rightly. RHS console.

 

I remember they put a nuke (B61 I think) into F4AF, it was pretty boring. Could only drop it in manual mode, big flash (no mushroom cloud modeled though) and then your machine ground to a halt as all the destructible structures below and within view burst into flames.

[falcon_120]

In that sense we all agree. If development consumes platform time and resources, there are other priorities. I am simply saying that it would be an interesting role, both for the bomber and for the bomber interceptor. The mission would end, but another would begin.

Yeah i know what you mean, and i agree. But in this case i would use scripting like you have in some servers where for example to get supplies to an airbase you need to protect a cargo aircraft, and this is shown like a warning message, along with iits success or failaure.

 

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[dorianR666]

can any plane in DCS drop nukes?

mig-21bis

 

it simply kills all units within certain range and puts a huge black texture on ground - but it doesnt follow terrain (its not a projection), so it clips bellow ground or floats in air.

[G B]

The switch is used to enable recording of raw FLIR footage to the 8mm tape. With the switch on, and the FLIR on the left DDI, and the left DDI set to record, the system will record raw footage (b/w) from the FLIR, instead of the shoulder camera recording the DDI itself.

 

This explains why in some YT videos you can see footage of the DDI sometimes, and raw b/w FLIR footage other times.

 

Remember, the normal DDI recording system operation is to have physical cameras mounted near the pilots shoulders to point at the DDIs and record them to the 8mm tape.

[silverdevil]

there is a YT video that they were testing laden AC takeoffs from carrier. mig 21 had some problems on the deck and crashed. the bomb went off with no explosion but the carrier did get destroyed.

[Hog_No32]

The switch is used to enable recording of raw FLIR footage to the 8mm tape. With the switch on, and the FLIR on the left DDI, and the left DDI set to record, the system will record raw footage (b/w) from the FLIR, instead of the shoulder camera recording the DDI itself.

 

This explains why in some YT videos you can see footage of the DDI sometimes, and raw b/w FLIR footage other times.

 

Remember, the normal DDI recording system operation is to have physical cameras mounted near the pilots shoulders to point at the DDIs and record them to the 8mm tape.

 

Now that is quite interesting! Thanks for the detailed info, G B.

[AH64D]

Welp that pretty much concludes why; regardless if its for ethical resons or technical. But as Bunny Clark mentioned, this stuff is highly classified. So there is no way to model the targeting systems in the MFD/HUD and all that jazz correctly. And then yeah, modifying the game engine, to account for a mushroom cloud explosion. Not sure if the B57 and B61 nuclear weapons would produce an ICBM kind of effect though.

 

That makes the most sense as to why this simply cannot be impemented. If it is not realistic then that kinda defeats the point of DCS. This isn't Lock On 7..haha.

[AH64D]

I wonder if this is the reason the B2 Stealth bomber will never be available. Or even the F-117 Nighthawk. I am just assuming we won't see high fidelity cockpits for these arcraft. As if I understand correctly the B2 role is highly nuclear. I could be wrong, but the B2 Stealth wasn't used very much. Its just to dangerous. Apprently the F-117 was a nightmare to maintain. I read it litterally just fell apart. But I have not done much research on these planes.

[bfr]

Welp that pretty much concludes why; regardless if its for ethical resons or technical. But as Bunny Clark mentioned, this stuff is highly classified. So there is no way to model the targeting systems in the MFD/HUD and all that jazz correctly. And then yeah, modifying the game engine, to account for a mushroom cloud explosion. Not sure if the B57 and B61 nuclear weapons would produce an ICBM kind of effect though.

 

That makes the most sense as to why this simply cannot be impemented. If it is not realistic then that kinda defeats the point of DCS. This isn't Lock On 7..haha.

 

Maximum yield of the B-61 is 170kt, 340kt or 400kt depending on which version you go for (but can be set much lower). That's very much current ICBM warhead yield territory.

[bfr]

I wonder if this is the reason the B2 Stealth bomber will never be available. Or even the F-117 Nighthawk. I am just assuming we won't see high fidelity cockpits for these arcraft. As if I understand correctly the B2 role is highly nuclear. I could be wrong, but the B2 Stealth wasn't used very much. Its just to dangerous. Apprently the F-117 was a nightmare to maintain. I read it litterally just fell apart. But I have not done much research on these planes.

 

A B-2 in the game wouldn't be that much fun I imagine. If they were ever going to do a big bomber as a module i'd absolutely love a go in a B-1B (pitched at low level work, more varied missions it could be used for and probably also a much better fit for the size of maps we have).

 

F-117 would be something completely different though as the challenge would be to remain undetected as if anyone spots you then you're likely absolutely toast, plus your weapons load is massively limited. When I was much younger I used to play the old Microprose F-117 and it was great fun back in the day with it being like an aerial 'sneak-em up'. Getting declassified literature to do a proper job of it is going to be somewhat problematic though.

[Northstar98]

One of the reasons is, as mentioned already, it's problematic from a game play perspective. The other reason is that the safety systems, arming electronics, and procedures for deploying nuclear weapons from tactical aircraft are extremely classified. We know that the switch exists and arms onboard nuclear weapons somehow, and interfaces with a device called a Permissive Action Link. Beyond that, I'm not aware that there is really any more information in the public sphere about how the system works. It's not really enough information to go on for a study level module like the Hornet.

 

Personally, apart from knowing what switches for the pilot to flick (which seems fairly self-explanatory in the aircraft that have them), do we really need to know the intricacies of how the bomb works in order to simulate it? Not being snarky, genuinely asking.

 

I don't know, it just seems to me that we have the information we need already (i.e what switches to flick to make bomb explode) which in aircraft like the F-16C it probably is a matter of selecting the weapon in the SMS, unguarding and positioning the nuclear consent switch to ARM/REL and then hit the weapon release.

 

If you want to jettison the weapon (but leaving it 'safe') position the nuclear consent switch to REL ONLY. If you leave the nuclear consent switch guarded (i.e off), and hit the weapon release nothing happens - the same as if you don't select a pylon or have the weapon selector switch in the F-5E-3 in the proper position.

 

Similar thing for the Hornet, only the nuclear consent switch only has one position, so presumably you can jettison it from the usual selective/emergency stores jettison leaving it 'safe' and if you hit the nuclear consent it allows the weapon to detonate.

 

As for PAL, as I understand it, it is an access control device, essentially consisting of a passcode and in some cases an option to select yield and a lock-out after x wrong attempts. Personally, for DCS use, loaded aircraft are set-up ready to employ weapons from the get go - we don't really need to simulate proper procedures and techniques of arming of nuclear weapons on the ground as it is kinda out of scope for the player, the only thing a mission editor would be interested in as far as PAL is concerned is the yield of the bomb if applicable.

 

Obviously it goes without saying that I have no idea what I'm talking about so the above is essentially speculation.

 

What I will say however, is that nuclear weapons present more of a technical challenge to DCS; not just visible effects (i.e the explosion and mushroom cloud), but also our PC's having to destroy a *lot* of objects in one go - which isn't something with an easy workaround. Plus, there are more pressing issues in my opinion for developers.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Northstar98

[Holbeach]

Destroying a lot of objects in one go, has never been a problem in DCS.

 

 

 

 

..

[Bunny Clark]

Personally, apart from knowing what switches for the pilot to flick (which seems fairly self-explanatory in the aircraft that have them), do we really need to know the intricacies of how the bomb works in order to simulate it? Not being snarky, genuinely asking.

To my mind it's more of a "don't know what we don't know" sort of thing. It's possible that delivering a nuclear weapon is as simple as selecting it in the Stores page, flipping the Nuclear ARM switch, and then dropping it in CCIP or AUTO mode. But is it that simple? Is additional information needed to arm the weapon from a DDI or UFC page? Is the PAL fully initiated on the ground before takeoff or is more in-flight interaction needed? I certainly don't know, and the handful of people here that do know won't be talking about it.

 

Cold War nuclear strike missions would be a pretty cool thing to fly in DCS. But considering the amount of engine updates and changes that would be needed to support a nuclear explosion it doesn't seem worth it to me. Especially since all the switchology of the drop would need to be modeled as "we guess it works this way" which is out of character for a study sim module.

[KLaFaille]

Delivery Of Atomic Weapons By Light Carrier Aircraft

 

Just for shits and grins.

[AH64D]

Well, I think the MFD radar page for a nuclear weapon is TOP SECRET information. Like when you use a Mavrick, it has a specific SOI on the MFD. Or in otherwords, the terminology on the MFD would be, nothing we have ever seen. I don't think it would be as simple as dropping a bomb, like the MK84, in CCIP mode. It would probably have codes...and other weirdness.

 

But all and all I think the comminuty would like to see tactical nuclear weapons in the DCS world. But the reason why its not possible, it is TOP secret unaccesible information, so it cannot be modeled correctly. So whats the point? My point is, missiles have specific terminology in the HUD/MFD/DDI etc.

 

I am pretty sure a nuclear weapon has very specific information on it and how the targeting computer represents that type of munition, on your MFD or targeting radar.

 

Plus, if the DoD found out DCS has accurate information on this, that would probably be a serious problem. Or any nuclear capable country in that respect. It is just not possible. The things a real F-18 Fighter pilot sees regarding tactical nuclear weapons, is not for the public to know. Or any military aricraft capable of this.

 

They should have never modeled that stupid switch..it drives us nuts. Because you know you want to drop a Nuke in DCS. America is the only country who ever did it in war. Russia drops nukes all the time, it is their pass time. Like American baseball. HAHA.

 

But, can you imagine how bizzare it would be to see a DDI page for a nuclear weapon? I am sure it is weird. Not like regualr AA or AG weapon. I am sure it is very intense. Especially for the pilot.

Edited September 10, 2020 by AH64D

[AH64D]

Interstingly, the B2 Stealth bombers whole design is basically to "End the world." Two B2 stealth bombers could create nuclear winter. They were never used in this respect. The USAF has all the ICBM's like other countries. But, the USAF would seem to be the sleeping giant.

 

A B2 Stealth bomber cost about $2 billion dollars to make. That bad boy was never used really. They even have armed soldiers to guard them at all times. the B2 Bomber Stealth is a doomsday device. Though submarines are highly deadly as well.

 

And you know, you could just fire ICBM's as well and just end the human race.

Edited September 10, 2020 by AH64D